View Single Post
Old 11-10-2013, 07:25 AM   #30
Blunt instrument
Mjölnir's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,985
Default Re: Comparing the movies Thor and Man of Steel

Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
With that in mind, allow me to respond to your critique. I am happy to admit, that MOS wasn't perfect, but then the original Superman movie has the lamest Superhero movie ending ever, but has 93% on rotten tomatoes and nearly everyone I talked to loved it (including me), but come on, flying around the world really fast so it spins backwards and that turns back time? Even if just Supes travelled back in time that wouldn't fix all the damage. In terms of plot devices or deus ex machine, that was just awful....but nobody cares.
None of the CBM's are perfect. I can find clear flaws with every single one, but those flaws bother me to very different extents. The ending to the big fight in The Avengers isn't great, where the Chitauri fall through being disconnected to the hive mind, but for some reason that never bothered me that much. I like Nolan's trilogy a lot but I think the more realistic tone clashes with several unrealistic things at many points. I'm having a bit more trouble seeing past that on repeated viewings, but I still like them. Just a couple of examples of very commonly liked movies and no one is better than the other just because I happen to have it easier with one of the flaws (then again "better" is always individual).

Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Krypton: the reason Jor El could excel at more than just science (i.e. ass kicking) was that he was the smartest guy on Krypton, but also the idea of doing more than you were born to do, was his whole point -the whole point of the speech he gave Kal in the scoutship anyway.
Zod represented and was proof of the opposite. ONce he had no purpose he practically asked Superman to kill him.
To excel in combat you need more than just smarts. You need a very capable physical body.

My point is mainly that I think the message of the doomed society (not the actual planet) would have been so much more powerful if they showed how potent and restrictive their genetic manipulation was (actually being able to alter genes is an enormously big thing). They had manipulated people for at least centuries so I would expect their soldiers to at least be Captain America physically, while scientists would only get what they need for their job. It would give a better view of a terrible society in my opinion.

As it was we were shown that the genetic manipulation didn't seem to do much. Jor-El was the better fighter than Zod so their manipulation just didn't seem to be that extreme to me.

Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
As to Jor El not leaving. Practically, don't know if they had too many spaceships around, having abandoned space exploration as their resources ran out (remind you of any real life examples...hint, a country that used to have a space shuttle?) . Jor El had to make a tiny spaceship for his infant son, in his living room, so we can assume they weren't easy to come by

He couldn't leave earlier, as his pregnant wife was carrying his child. And everyone knows hyperspace travel isn't recommended for women in their last trimester.
He says that he and Lara couldn't leave because they were products of Krypton, not because it wasn't physically possible. Since they actively go against pretty much everything Krypton stood for I don't see how they are products of it, let alone unable to change when they came to a new planet.

It would have been better to explain it like you did imo, that it wasn't possible to escape with a ship large enough to take all three of them.

Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Smallville fight: This one's been done to death, but I'll touch on it since you brought it up. The Kryptonians attacked Superman in downtown smallville, true he ended up there after he attacked Zod, but he probably wasn't thinking at that point, which was dumb, but understandable. He slammed into Zod, probably not thinking about the consequences, as he was busy punching Zod in the face.
I just mentioned it as an example where they have Superman do bad things. For me he is an extremely selfless hero so I would rather have preferred him to do what he could to get the fight away from Smallville (and Metropolis) but fail to do so and let the opponent(s) get the upper hand because he focuses more on saving others than himself.

[QUOTE=Batmannerism;27185239Tornado Scene: Okay, here you have a point. I thought it was a very powerful idea, but not terribly well executed. If there had been a better reason why Clark couldn't rush out and save Pa Kent, maybe....although Pa Kent specifically told him not to. I'm not sure the people under the bridge would have really been paying too much attention as they were probably distracted by clinging for their lives to the overpass.
Anyway, with a little better scripting, that scene could have really been something. I found it good, but could have been better. [/QUOTE]
That scene makes me sad because the actors were good enough to make it great, but everything else was done wrong imo (down to Jonathan being able to stand calmly in a wind that seconds earlier lifted a car off the car he was in).

I would have liked to see a scene where both Martha and Jonathan are in life-threatening danger. Clark tries to save both but has to choose which one to save first, causing him to be too late to save the other. That would make him heroic and sympathetic, and I also think it would have played perfectly into the part of his life where he's just wandering around trying to get away from people as much as possible. He wouldn't think he was good enough to be a hero because he couldn't save his father. But that's just my view.

Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

- if the aether can wipe out everything in the 9 realms, how come it doesn't just wipe out Thor ? Given that Kurse pummelled him, that doesn't seem right.

-why do the asgardian warriors bring a gun fight, when the dark elves attack ?

-where was the destroyer ? haven't they fixed it yet ?

- why couldn't Odin see through Loki's disguise ?

- why does the Collector's place look like an old pawn-shop and he come across like a drag-queen hairdresser, given that he's an immortal elder of the universe with the biggest collection of stuff in the universe ?

And why would Vostaag and Sif get sent to do give him an infinity gem, wasn't there anybody more qualified ?

And if Loki is in charge, masquerading as Odin, why would he do that ?
Why would he send away an object of immense power, given that Loki (in Thor, and the Avengers) was seeking ways to make himself more powerful, surprise surprise, using objects of great power.

- Why have Heimdall guard the Bifrost, which can be turned on and turned off, instead of all those back-door routes that Loki knows about. The rest of asgard, or at least Thor and probably Odin know about these after the first Thor movie, since Loki mentioned them then (which means Heimdall would know too, as Loki told him).

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Fun things to discuss.

The Aether can't just destroy the universe, it needs the convergence of the nine realms to destroy it. It's powers seems to be more geared towards other things than combat power, something that's reinforced by Thor's taunt at the beginning of the fight.

I'm guessing that's a cultural thing and that the "gods" (Odin saying that they are not gods is a part I don't like about the movie) are stuck in their ways. They are probably strong enough to handle whatever everyone currently in the nine realms can shoot at them. It's not terribly logical though, it's a thing that comes from the fantasy trope that's a big part of the movie.

Since he's not there I'd say that the logical conclusion to draw is that Thor broke it for good. Another possibility is that they only use it to protect the vault, as there are some extremely powerful artifacts hidden there.

Even Heimdall can't see through Loki's magic so it never struck me as odd that Odin couldn't. I'd sooner expect Odin to deduct that there's a possibility of a scheme, but he's in a weird state after Frigga dies.

I don't know about the Collector. I'm not that read up on that character and they might change things from the comics (this is a different director than for TDW, so I treat it almost as part of the GotG movie). The Asgardians aren't gods, so maybe he isn't what he is in the comics either?

Volstagg and Sif are pretty high up on the scale. Sif was given command of an army so she's clearly just a notch below Thor.

It's an interesting question why Loki didn't keep the stone. A possibility is that the scene isn't in the correct chronological place, so Odin might have sent it away before Loki assumed his place. I guess it's also possible that Loki does it to cement his ruse. He already has what he wants so he doesn't need more. Or he makes a deal with the Collector to get out of punishment for failing in the Avengers, although that seems pretty unlikely as the Tesseract is still in Asgard. In any case it's something they will have to explain.

No one knows about the secret paths but Loki (unless someone else knows but isn't telling anyone), according to what's being said in the movie. That's why Thor needs to bring Loki on the ride. If anyone else knew he would have left Loki in the cell.

It's just fun to discuss things like this in a friendly manner. As we've both said, all movies have flaws and it can be fun to discuss them as long as it's done in good spirit.

And DarthSkywalker, I read your post but I feel that most of what I could respond with is in this post and it seems unnecessary to just parrot myself.

Mjölnir is offline   Reply With Quote