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Old 01-12-2014, 10:11 PM   #82
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Default Re: Batman vs the black Joker thug

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
It's pretty simple. Burton's version is more stylized than Nolan's. Both Burton and Schumacher's versions were highly stylized, though Schumacher's was more on the "light" silver age side of things and Burton's was on the gothic, 1940s noir side of things. Nolan's version is more like a 'regular' action movie that just so happens to be about Batman. This is neither good nor bad, it's purely subjective which approach one likes more.

Even with all the B movie tropes present in the Nolan films, the overall tone still conveys something much different than what we got in the 80s and 90s. I don't care how you want to break it down, the feeling of watching a Burton Batman movie evokes something different than the feeling of watching a Nolan Batman movie. Even down to the scores. I adore Elfman's Batman scores, but they're very cartoony, particularly when it comes to scoring the action. Again, this is neither a good thing or a bad thing. We're lucky as fans to have been blessed with two very different, but very cool cinematic incarnations.

The important thing to remember is that although we can look back on certain elements of the Burton films now and call them out for campiness, at the time it was a HUGE step forward in the evolution of the character's perception in the public consciousness and went a long way in getting rid of the "POW" "WHAM" association. In fact, Nolan himself said that it was Burton's first film that established the idea that you could make a "cool" Batman movie, which opened the door for him to make his own. There's really no need at all for the films to be pitted against one another, but I guess it's always gonna happen, just like Batfleck will be compared to Bale/Nolan.

At the end of the day, all of these movies have to be PG-13 and are designed to sell lots of tickets. All of them have some adult themes mixed in with big action beats and an operatic story and basic ideas that a younger audience can latch onto. But there is still a difference in tone. Each Batman movie is going for something different.

Agree with all that, especially the idea that each film is a different flavor for the audiences. Good post.

The only thing I don't agree with is that the scores in the first two films are "cartoony". Maybe a few of the themes like the Joker's or some of the quirkiness in Returns, but they're all pretty grandiose and cinematic for the most part. The main theme, descent into mystery, childhood remembered? Pretty compelling stuff. Same goes for the themes in Batman: The Animated Series and Mask of the Phantasm by Shirley Walker.

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
The way you're describing it you're making it sound like Keaton in 89 is pure stoic, but not really. "You weigh a little more than 108". "You wanna get nuts?!", "Alfred it's time to go shopping" etc. Keaton's Bruce/Batman still had a sense of humor and some quirkiness to him, because that's Keaton and he did bring some of himself to the role. I agree that he was a very dark and mysterioso Batman for the most part, but he still had his moments of levity, even if it was more on the dark humor side.
I meant Batman.

I'll give you "you weigh a little more than 108", but you gotta admit that's pretty low key and subtle, hardly on the level of the ones I listed. The reason he says that is because she lied about it which caused their overall weight to exceed the limit and short out the grapple mechanism in his belt (which I always thought was clever myself). Even then, that's nothing compared to the likes of Bale or worse offenders like Kilmer and Clooney. This Batman barely said a word. Look no further than the descent into mystery scene where he is COMPLETELY stoic inside the Batmobile not uttering a single word. I don't think a single live action Batman has ever done something that "Batmany". The way he shines the light in her eyes when she's trying to get a better look at him is so simple yet so brilliant in defining the type of character he is.

Of course, if we bring Returns into the argument and not just '89, we do have "high fiber" but tonally, Returns is like a completely different film. I never quite understood that awful quip myself especially when Batman has appeared to have gotten darker. Then again, maybe Catwoman makes him say and do strange things.

Last edited by milost; 01-12-2014 at 10:18 PM.
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