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Old 11-07-2013, 02:51 AM   #19
Clark Kent > Superman
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,848
Default Re: The Double Standards Against Superman

I just wanted to add that I think a lot of the double standard for Supes comes from there being such a divide in the fandom anyway in how people want him portrayed. The pre/post crisis debate.

So you'll get a bunch of fans screaming for one change, and then when that change happens, the other fans who didn't want that change will be bad mouthing it...

But we all knew the movie wasn't going to make everyone happy.

Originally Posted by smallville fan View Post
I've been saying to hopefuldreamer that the movie's a first act of a much larger story and you can't really judge it right now until the next film where consequences are explored and we see how all that big action that happened in MOS serves as a launching point and plot device as well as Superman's explosive arrival. It seems he/she just wants to jump on the hate bandwagon because everyone else is and wants to watch a Marvel Studios movie or a rehash of Avengers in DC. DC wants to do their own cinematic universe in their own unique method and should not be hated on just because it's nothing like Marvel's.
Anyone who knows me and knows that I didn't particularly care for the Avengers can clearly see how stupid your post is.

Whatever bee in your bonnet you've got for me, get over it.

The care and time I took to explain my thoughts honestly and openly in the way I just did deserves more than some douche with an ignorant attitude not even bothering to read the content and just attempting to bash me.

Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
As to the ending, I find it really weird that people don't see it as hopeful. When Lois says "Welcome to the planet" she's speaking ironically (although that might be Alanis MOrisette Irony, as opposed to true irony), that he's finally joined the human race and found his place in the world.
Definitely. I get my impression of how they left it from 4 things.

1) A slow and poignant moment where Perry and Lombard and Jenny are looking around and Jenny says 'He saved us', as though in awe of the wonderful feat that Superman just achieved.

2) The scene immediately following the neck snap, in which Superman and General Swanwick come to an agreement about trusting each other, in which Superman denounces himself as 'as american as they come', and the cadet expresses what I assume would be a popular opinion of any female human having seen Superman in action - he's hot.

3) A touching scene with his mother in which she talks about how his father always knew he'd turn out to be a great hero.

4) The scene following that in which Clark is happy and smiling and excited about a bright future in Metropolis while being shown around the Daily Planet, and as you said, welcomed into the fold.

Now seriously people. Seriously... what scene are you getting this sense that there is a big mess he has to come back from?

The only places that can come from is a) your imagination based on what you consider logical reaction and b) what Snyder/Goyer have said.

But that shouldn't be the case.

The film shouldn't point one way at the end, and then leave us to try and reason between the gaps and try and find a way to make it fit because of what the director and writer have stated might happen next.

If they wanted to show that a sequel was going to be about people not approving of what he did, or the fear it created, or even him deciding killing isn't a thing he ever wants to do again... they should have set some of that up at the end...

What they did was set up the opposite IMO, and now they have to go back on themselves.

Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
@ Hopefuldreamer

Aw shucks, I definitely appreciate you taking the time to respond to my super long post.

I can definitely understand where you're coming from regarding the film. The truth of the matter is, there isn't that many "Happy" or even "Positive" moments within the film for Superman or the story for that matter.

Many people die, with a lot of them being those close or associated with Superman. And the character is always thrown under a bus when it comes to problems and obstacles after having made his way out of a previous one

I do hope that the next film finds a better balance in being able to tell a happier story for Superman while not sacrificing the drama for cheap laughs.

You know what's funny, regarding the visual impact of kids seeing Superman snap Zod's neck... the weird thing is that we've seen someone as "good" as Captain America who threw a man into the blade of an fighter plane and another man to his death from the hellcarrier, but I never recalled hearing any parents saying that it came off as too dark for them.

Honestly, I think the fact that Superman being Superman can work against him because like others have said, he's been so revered for so long in one way or another that it's just hard seeing him in positions where he seems fallible and where he doesn't have an answer for everything.

I do hope that the next film also further establishes him as the hero that the world will come to love and admire like Jor-el mentioned.
But it's not as though I am a stubborn fan of pre crisis era Supes like Kurosawa was.

I want a human personality. I want Clark the man, Superman the Superhero part of him.

And that involves a certain amount of being falliable and not having an answer for everything.

There's just this really fine line between making the hero relatable and pulling them so far down to our level that they don't feel as inspiring anymore.

As for the neck snap, I know people will laugh at me for saying it, but I just find the action of a neck snap so much more brutal and violent than fall from a hellicarrier or being thrown into something.

It's just so hands on. Brutal, close up violence, and this loud crack that echoes through a silent building.

It's much more shocking to me.

Praise it if you will. It makes me cry every single time.

Superman: "I can only tell you what I believe, Diana. humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."
Flash: "But that's what she's saying. What's the point? Why should they need us at all?"
Superman: "To catch them if they fall."

Last edited by hopefuldreamer; 11-07-2013 at 02:55 AM.
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