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Old 07-16-2013, 06:45 PM   #123
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,763
Default Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
I can care less if somebody believes me, but Shikamaru constantly acts like his 21 year old self knows everything there is to know about the "essence" of Batman to the point where he claims this and that are ESSENCE. That's not the definition of essence. All it means is what makes him who is through how he came to be. Everything else is subjective.

He acts as if THIS IS THE ESSENCE AND IF IT'S NOT MET, IT'S WRONG. So if people like Jett from Batman On Film (keep your opinions of the guy to yourselves, im NOT talking about him personally) or the legendary Michael Uslan....if theyre loving the ending to Rises and crying and they feel it's a great ending and the "essence" then theyre wrong?? Really? People who have been hardcore fans for 45 to 60 years of Batman's existence.
Already addressed this in the posts I linked. I don't mind new takes on Batman. I don't mind new versions of Batman. I don't mind different interpretations. I don't have a problem with any of those.

What I do have a problem with is when you set up a continuity that establishes the same essence as the Batman of the Modern comics only to go against it later on. Once you've set up the ground rules of your universe, the option to portray the character in a manner that completely goes against that particular essence goes bye-bye. Had the essence of the Batman of the Modern comics not been there in that new established continuity in the first place, it wouldn't have been a problem in the first place. Had BB and TDK not established the essence of the Batman that I know so well, TDKR's ending and overall message wouldn't have been as much of a problem for me in the first place.

Why should I care about what people like Jett and Uslan say? When did I say their opinions are wrong? I never made such statement. I don't form formulate my opinions based on what other people think just because they happen to think that way. I am not a blind follower. I welcome people's opinions and valid/invalid criticisms but at the end of the day, my opinion stands alone and is formed by my own critical thoughts. I saw TDKR and I think the message goes against everything the comics have told me Batman is (see above paragraphs before *****ing to me again about there being different takes and different versions of Batman).

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
It's not addressed. You still don't know what the essence means. None of that means anything. Because it's all up to interpretation past the phase of his tone and what makes him become the Batman. It doesn't matter what era it is. The 60s tv show is enjoyable, it was groundbreaking, it was in line with the comics of the time, but its not the essence of Batman as he was created. Neither is Batman and Robin. Is Batman a dark character who scares criminals in the night there? No.
Once again:

I specifically addressed the bolded question in there too.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Nolans movies borrowed from all eras one way or another. Not just the modern age.

Now, I took the time to read your posts. Thank you because they were well written and thought out. I agreed with some of it but I don't believe the majority relates to what needs to be kept or not...I don't believe it's the essence of Batman. You're breaking up each era as if THIS is honoring that era, and then these movies are honoring THIS era over here! But that's not how I see it. The essence of Batman should be there at all times, no matter what era. And Nolans and Burtons and Timm's stuff were in line with that essence. Of course it's not to say they shouldn't make the tv series from the 60s, go ahead. But that stuff along with Shumachers (mainly sequel) is the only crime against this essence we're speaking of. You're also going too much in detail with what you think makes up the characters essence or core.
The Nolan films did borrow a lot from each era. You're absolutely right about that. However, they borrowed mainly when it came to story, character portrayals, and context. The essence of Batman specifically was taken straight-off-the-page from the Modern Age of comics. You can borrow from various ages when adapting something, but there is only one essence that you can borrow.

How I rate movies:
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