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Old 11-07-2012, 10:30 PM   #7
American Maid
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Default Re: Sigyn Goddess of Fidelity and Wife of Loki

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
That is good to hear. Interesting that she praises the "heterosexual female gaze" there and yet to me that was definitely the most annoying part of Jane and Darcy in Thor. They were acting like horny silly schoolgirls, when at least one of them should have been much more mature than that! I pretty much immediately lost respect for the character and lost interest in it as a love story due to that stuff. (the dishes in the cupboard instead of the sink, the almost driving off the road due to Thor's hotness...). Not that' he's not hot, I just dont like her behavior there. It's the one thing I dread if they do have more Jane-Thor in Thor 2, that there's going to be more of that silly horny girl behavior.
Yeah, that was embarrassing. I have the impression Portman put that stuff in to humanize the character. Now, a lot of times, female characters get put through a damned if you do/damned if you don't filter. So if Portman hadn't done that, maybe everyone would have been grumbling about how cold the characterization of Jane was.

There have been indications regarding the progression/evolution of the characters and relationship, so I suspect there will be less of the total flibadagibit stuff in Thor2. (at least I hope!)

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
And no mention of Frigga in that article there is interestingly. ... (although Frigga may have gotten more notice from the poster if some of the deleted scenes had stayed in)
One of the commenters mentioned her.

And really, what was important was not any one of the female characters. It's that there were *four* of them in the movie, all treated better than in a lot of other movies (I do wish Frigga's scenes had not been cut).

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
But feminism it seems to some means that women who do this should be looked down upon or ignored, like Frigga and Sigyn. (although Frigga may have gotten more notice from the poster if some of the deleted scenes had stayed in)
Well, the idea is for women to have the opportunities where they can contribute to the best of their abilities, without being penned in by the weight of society's expectations. In the past, there was more expectation (at least for upper class women) for staying home, so the advocacy was to open up alternatives to that. But for some women, where they most want to be is at home, and we should support those who want to do that. The same for men who want to spend time at home with their families.

Now here's something very interesting. This came up on one of the other Thor message boards I follow (because, really, it's such slow traffic here on the Hype ). Apparently, Thor is not running Asgard right now in the books. It's currently called Asgardia, and it is run by the All-Mothers. Idunn, Gaea, and Freyja. Let me say that again: the All-Mothers.

I'm not able to post the panel showing the All-Mothers directly into this message. But here's the link to the post that talks about it, with the image:

Now, the one (Idunn, I think) on the left has the typical stupid armor that so many other female characters have had (and heels too!). But look at the one in the center! (Gaea) Holding a baby and a weapon! (I guess she's in heels too) So one of the leaders has motherhood as a central part of her identity. And she looks quite confident she can handle whatever challenge you might be thinking of bringing. (Though she would have to hand off the baby to use the bow.) Certainly this is a very different treatment of someone who is parenting.

It's both novel and ancient, because of course a trio of women representing Maiden/Mother/Crone figures in many mythologies (by process of elimination, the one on the right, Freyja, should be representing Crone, and she looks *marvelous* as a crone!).

Now I have no idea whether the stories about them are well-written, nor how they came to be in charge of Asgard(ia). But this image fascinates me. The All-Mothers are running Asgard. And it's one of the little bits of evidence I see from time to time that make me hopeful that things are changing.

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
[begin rant/] I think I just should not read any more Sigyn/Loki stuff from the comics when I see them scanned. It annoys the bejezus out of me what a bad job they did with her. . . . SO RIDICULOUS!!! UGH!!! Anyway, she's somehow in love with him, dont ask me how the hell that happened, and she does all this stuff for him, to save him and to bring him back. And he does make a few little gestures in a few places like he cares for her, maybe loves her, protective of her, but not nearly enough to have it make any sense whatsoever, that any self respecting woman would ever love him and stay with him. None at all! It is just such an insulting portrayal of a loving loyal wife as a really annoying doormat. [/end rant]
Yeah!! Damn you, Marvel!

(I sincerely share your outrage. I *do* hope they're getting better!)

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
In the myth, I believe there are indications about him cheating, which isnt good, but people can have infidelity in their marriage and still love each other. It's just an extremely difficult situation to be mixed up in. Never figured marriage to the god of mischief would be easy anyway! lol... I've not found anything about him being abusive to her in any way, however and the thing about him murdering then impersonating her betrothed is a Marvel invention.
Well, in the Viking Age, expectations of fidelity were different for men and women. And people did not marry for love (that was a concept that emerged (Edit: for the West) in the 17th century (Edit: moreso in the 18th)). Men, as the scholars phrase it, had "access to other women". I'm not immediately familiar with particular stories about Loki (other than the one about him birthing Sleipnir ), but what you've described doesn't sound out of step with these different expectations. Tor of myth also had women on the side.

I have the impression that Loki disliked his wife. She deserved better.

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
So, going forward, before Marvel even considers using Sigyn in the MCU or again in comics, they need to really seriously rethink how to handle her and that relationship, and making this character and her love story believable and with dignity. Again reading that article I linked might give them a good start. (and maybe send me an email to consult... LOL)
Sigyn and many other female characters need to be treated with greater dignity.

And. . . .who knows? Maybe someone from Marvel lurks here. . .

Good discussion!

Last edited by American Maid; 11-08-2012 at 07:32 AM.
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