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Old 08-16-2011, 12:13 PM   #49
El Payaso
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
well if anything was going to stop bruce becoming batman it was going to be finding some sort of happiness and in honesty, most of that is in finding true love.
First of all, nothing HAS to stop Bruce from becoming Batman (a different thing is to be stopped after he becomes Batman).

And then, true love (as in a romance) is just a cliche. One that doesn't belong to Batman's origin. Other than Bruce's love for their aprents and vice versa.

Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
I think a key point of it that i haven't brought up is that bruce understood love could have stopped him being batman, which is a key element because he tries to use that notion to stop andrea killing the joker at the end of phantasm and she is too far gone to understand.
Bruce understanding that killing is not the solution, because is what triggered the whole thing, is what he should have used to stop Andrea from killing. Bruce understoof that in BR (a franchise where he didn't have the no killing policy), BF (where he discourages Dick Grayson from killing) and of course Nolan's movies. A girl had nothing to do with it.

Bruce defining partially his Batman mission in true love is like having Jonathan Kent being killed in order to make Clark undertstand he should use his powers to fight crime. It's possible and it might work, but it doesn't belong there.

Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
as for the fear aspect, there's a reason the masking of batman is played directly after he finds out that beaumont has done a runner.
The reason couldn't be any more wrong though.

Fear comes from the vision of the bat, that makes Bruce understand that criminals are superstitious.

Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
to be fair, i don't think andrea does too much to divert batman off his path, she is just a fork in the road that he doesn't end up taking but it's nice to know the fork was still there.
No, it was nice to know Bruce's obsession comes from where it has always come: to bring justice to this world.

I measure Andrea's interference because of the results: Bruce wanted to quit his Batman mission before starting. I'd say that's enouygh diversion.

It's not nice to know everything depended on a girl.

Which is worse: Andrea didn't even do much, as you say. It's Bruce himself (!) who felt a girl was enough to stop him.

Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
and bruce is shown to be anything but human for a large part of the dcau (if you take into account his bruce wayne persona in his youth was an act). the closest other thing he's come to showing is fear when fighting against kyoado-ken (sp?) and rage when tim is being tortured in return of the joker.

infact, isn't the reason that dick left him was because of his apparent inhumanity
And how is that a problem for the character? Bruce Wayne is supposed to be absorbed by his obsession. That's why he becomes Batman. As I told you, after some years of actually being and experimenting being Batman, then he can realize of his lack of humanity. But before?

Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
don't get me wrong, most romances in superhero stories are completly convoluted but because there are hugh parallels between the characters and she's there at a pivotal time in his life and never shows up again, i think it works. unlike rachel who basically tells him to be batman and is a final reward for stopping being batman, boooo hiss....
A girl telling Bruce to become Batman is as bad as a girl stopping him of being Batman. Girls come and go, but Bruce is stronger than that.

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