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Old 01-22-2012, 10:31 PM   #126
CConn
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Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
I'll give you Otis being campy but Luthor proves himself to be a cop killer who can figure out how to contact Superman, kill Superman, and outthink Superman who can't save both the East and West coast.
The fact that Luthor's only accomplices were two idiots who lived with him in the subway kinda illegitimized his supposed intelligence, IMO.

Not to mention, he himself had plenty of campy lines and gags written in. The wig, the ascot, the "what my father always said to me" line...pure camp.
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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
The third act is not implausible for a movie about an alien person who can shot lasers from his eyes and fly around in a cape. Is the reversing time kind of silly, yes. But it's more symbolic of what we would do to save someone we love. As pure symbolism, it works.
Expect "pure" symbolism is stupid to have in a movie. Because it's always inherently nonsensical. A proper film should have a strong balance between symbolism and sense. STM didn't.
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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Superman has alot of great dialogue. The only overly campy stuff would be between Otis and Luther. You can't dismiss and entire movie based on 4 or 5 lines of dialogue.
It was way more than 5 lines.

Otis was campy, Luthor was campy, Perry White was campy, Jimmy was campy, Clark was campy, even Luis had gags written in.
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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
The Smallville scenes and Krypton scenes have tremendous heart and resonance. It perfectly introduces us to Superman and both lofty birthright and hs humble upbringing.
I agree. They were the best part of the movie.
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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Hulk had pretty dull stories with everyone looking at their watch waiting for the Hulk to show up and run around in slow motion, throwing bad guys through doors.
What made TIH great was anything but "waiting for the Hulk to show up and run around in slow motion", it was those slow-burn, dramatic stories. They were always very human, very sentimental, and usually had some (halfway logical) symbolism in them as well.

TIH wasn't some smash 'em up action. It was a drama. It was understated. And it was done very well.
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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Acting wise I love Bill Bixby calm contrast to the Hulk monster but it their wasnt alot of strong acting involved. Bixby basically played himself. Reeve's was endearing as the bumbling Clark Kent. Reeve does alot with body language and subtle looks and creates a superhero performance that has yet to be matched.
Look, I'm really not trying to knock on Chris Reeve. He did a great job. Very ironic, definitely. My comment was that the dialogue, and the tone of STM as a film, limited what he was able to do. You can't exactly be campy AND subtlety dramatic at the same time.

But again, that's not necessarily a bad thing - and it's certainly not Reeve's fault - I just think the role in which Bixby played, gave him a bit more of an opportunity to turn in a more dramatic performance.

It's like comparing Keaton in Mr. Mom to Keaton in Clean and Sober. Same actor so it was the same quality performance, but due to the subject matter he was able to turn in a much different performance in the latter.
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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Superman the Movie had tremendous heart and iconic imagery. It's still remains one of the best superhero movie ever attempted even after all these decades.
That really seems neither here nor there. Personally to me, B89 had tremendously iconic imagery and will always be my preferred superhero movie. But I'm not going to go around spouting that off as actual fact.

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