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Old 07-16-2008, 12:01 AM   #1
ScottishFogg
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Default Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

I just finished reading the TPB of All-Star Batman and Robin and realized something . . . Frank Miller hates Superman.

Every time he writes a Batman book, he throws in something that makes Superman out to be a clown, a child, or just a puppet of the government. In Miller's books, Bruce belittles Clark, looks down on him, and continually disrespects him. Why is that?

If this was the relationship Supes and Bats have, there would be no way they could have ever been on the Justice League together. They'd never team up. They'd never do anything together.

It's such a stark contrast to the way Loeb writes them. In his run on Superman/Batman, they respect each other and their differences. They actually seem like friends.

So what's Frank's deal? Is he just re-writing Batman, working him into his vision of what he thinks Batman should be like? Making him a character that should haunt Sin City, not Gotham?

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Old 07-16-2008, 05:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

well, you realize things really... fast It has always been that way. Perhaps Superman is too "clean" for him or something like that.

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Old 07-16-2008, 05:52 AM   #3
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

I don't know Frank Miller doesn't exactly like the Green Latern either from the looks of All Star Batman and Robin.

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Old 08-31-2008, 08:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

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Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
I don't know Frank Miller doesn't exactly like the Green Latern either from the looks of All Star Batman and Robin.
Don't confuse the writer with the Batman character. As is the case with Superman, Frank Miller likes Green Lantern, it's Batman who doesn't. In All-Star Batman Hal Jordan speaks in an antiquated fashion saying things like “all we’ve seen is him [Batman] tossing the young fella into the car…” And I love how he's wearing the old Gil Kane version of the costume. He is a simple, nice guy. The way superheroes used to be. Miller has gone on record several times stating that he was upset several years back when they gave Hal a DUI (in the Emerald Dawn II storyline), and, a few years later, they would make him a mass murderer. He felt that it was unnecessary to add that level of darkness to that character (i.e. Batman is a character that lends himself to a darker treatment; there’s no need to do that with GL). "Why Green Lantern became a drunk driver when he can fly always loses me," Miller explains. "And I'm told they turned him into a mass murderer as well. The fun's gone out of it. I want to try my hand at bringing it back."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=192

For Miller, Green Lantern represents a simpler more innocent time in superhero comics. So, he puts him in the Gil Kane costume.

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Old 06-08-2010, 01:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

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Originally Posted by theMan-Bat View Post
Don't confuse the writer with the Batman character. As is the case with Superman, Frank Miller likes Green Lantern, it's Batman who doesn't. In All-Star Batman Hal Jordan speaks in an antiquated fashion saying things like “all we’ve seen is him [Batman] tossing the young fella into the car…” And I love how he's wearing the old Gil Kane version of the costume. He is a simple, nice guy. The way superheroes used to be. Miller has gone on record several times stating that he was upset several years back when they gave Hal a DUI (in the Emerald Dawn II storyline), and, a few years later, they would make him a mass murderer. He felt that it was unnecessary to add that level of darkness to that character (i.e. Batman is a character that lends himself to a darker treatment; there’s no need to do that with GL). "Why Green Lantern became a drunk driver when he can fly always loses me," Miller explains. "And I'm told they turned him into a mass murderer as well. The fun's gone out of it. I want to try my hand at bringing it back."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=192

For Miller, Green Lantern represents a simpler more innocent time in superhero comics. So, he puts him in the Gil Kane costume.
So what does Miller do? He writes an issue that's basically just an excuse for Batman to hurl insults at Hal Jordan while Robin steals his ring and then they brutalize him and beat the crap out of him. Yeah, that's real fun. Miller seems to equate "nice guy(s)" with stupid, even if he won't admit it. I can only imagine how Miller would react to Hal giving Batman a hardcore beating (as opposed to just knocking Bats off his feet).

Would you believe I found this thread by accident?

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Old 06-15-2010, 09:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

There are also insults at Batman's expense as well.



Does that mean Miller hates Batman and everyone else? No, that means Miller likes to add some character driven humor and conflict and no character is excluded from some insults or wisecracks at their expense. No character is portrayed as mr. perfect, they all have flaws in some way.

Batman didn't beat up on Hal, Batman never even hit Hal once. And Robin got out of control and almost killed Hal, which obviously shocked and upset Batman a lot, and Batman saved Hal's life. And that made him realize that he had made mistakes in Robin's training and "prays for a second chance."

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In theaters August 22nd.

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Old 07-16-2008, 06:37 AM   #7
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

Well, he always seemed to like Hal Jordan.

In ASBR all are retarded

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Old 07-16-2008, 10:23 AM   #8
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

I've always known, but ASBR just pushed it over the edge.

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Old 07-16-2008, 12:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

I remember one of his interview in wich he described psychologically the two, completely different. Hence putting them at odds.
Can anyone post it, please? I don't remember where it is.

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Old 07-16-2008, 03:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

I agree. They are very different people. But every chance Miller gets, he puts this really strong animosity between them, especially coming from Batman. I think in ASBR, he literally says, "I'm smarter than you, I'll always be smarter than you!" And then laughs and laughs.

Who's smarter is up for debate, I suppose. But to dimish Kal's otherworldly knowledge just seems juvenile. It's like, in Miller's world, Batman is the nerdy little kid in eighth grade who picks on the jock from behind his back.

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Old 07-16-2008, 04:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

Superman is - of course - more intelligent than Batman, The authentic Superman that is.

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Old 07-18-2008, 03:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

Why does Frank Miller hate Superman? Personally, I like Batman better, but I don't feel the need to belittle Supes to make Batman seem cooler! They are each coolin their own ways. I would have to say that Bats is actually the more intellegent of the two, but lets face it, he can't do a lot of the things Supes can do. If only for his amazing power, Supes is a leader. People naturally follow him and listen to him because he is Superman! Batman certainly has leadership skills, but he likes to keep to himself. Sure, he has his extended family of sidekicks, but they all had to go through a lot to earn his trust and he still keeps them all out of the loop on many things. Miller plays favorites like no one's business! And with every character he takes on, he gives them that same Miller twist! Sure, any time a new writer takes on a character that already exists, they're gonna give them thier own twist, but Miller takes it to an extreme. Superman, The Man of Steel, is always made to look like some loser boyscout who is all brawn and no brains, and that is not Superman at all. I think that Superman and Batman would each understand and respect each other, despite how different they are. Miller pretty much feels like he can do whatever he wants and he gets away with it because he's Frank Miller. I HATE The Dark Knight Strikes again because not only does he belittle Superman, he does the same thing to Dick Grayson! My opinion is that Miller should just stick to doing his own original stuff and stop ruining everything that is good about the classics!

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Old 07-18-2008, 06:06 AM   #13
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

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Originally Posted by twofacetoface View Post
I would have to say that Bats is actually the more intellegent of the two,
No he is not. Superman has "super-intellect" and a super-brain. The Smallville and Lois & Clark Superman is kinda dumb, that's correct. And the STAS Superman. Batman is just a human genius, Superman comes from a species on his peak of evolution, and out of one of the finest families there.

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Old 07-22-2008, 03:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

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Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore View Post
No he is not. Superman has "super-intellect" and a super-brain. The Smallville and Lois & Clark Superman is kinda dumb, that's correct. And the STAS Superman. Batman is just a human genius, Superman comes from a species on his peak of evolution, and out of one of the finest families there.
What continuity? What age? You say that like it's fact when it's actually opinion. I suppose you could say he has super-intellect right now, but we don't know what his limits are or where the character is headed. He's only had these changes for the past couple years so far. It's fine to post your opinion, and debate this stuff, but don't assume you are just right and no one can challenge that.

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Old 07-22-2008, 04:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

it was that way from 1938 'til 1986 but then Superman became Super-Simp. I am glad they re-introduced it in 2006. I don't care about fanboy's favourite thing, "continuity", I just look at the essence of the character and how he was created, "with powers far beyond those of mortal man" AND so his LOGICALLY his brain. He is a super-inventor and seems to build super-robots now! Superman, greatest character ever invented.



Only Superman haters deny his super-intellect.


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Old 07-23-2008, 03:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

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it was that way from 1938 'til 1986 but then Superman became Super-Simp. I am glad they re-introduced it in 2006. I don't care about fanboy's favourite thing, "continuity", I just look at the essence of the character and how he was created, "with powers far beyond those of mortal man" AND so his LOGICALLY his brain. He is a super-inventor and seems to build super-robots now! Superman, greatest character ever invented.



Only Superman haters deny his super-intellect.
You're still posting an opinion, not fact. You do realize that you as much a fanboy as anyone on this board right? I think you should just relax and not get so defensive about this. Especially with the "Superman haters" crap. Calm down.

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Old 07-24-2008, 12:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

Frank Miller writes Superman that way because he doesn't understand him.

He can't get his mind wrapped around the fact that a character can be as good as Superman.

Just look at EVERYTHING he has ever written, it's as dark as can be. You only write about the things you know, and the basic things that make Superman who he is do not exist in Frank Miller's mind.

He's a crackpot.


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Old 07-24-2008, 09:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Originally Posted by Kal L View Post
Frank Miller writes Superman that way because he doesn't understand him.

He can't get his mind wrapped around the fact that a character can be as good as Superman.

Just look at EVERYTHING he has ever written, it's as dark as can be. You only write about the things you know, and the basic things that make Superman who he is do not exist in Frank Miller's mind.

He's a crackpot.

That about sums it up for me. I think Frank Miller just doesn't understand that a man would want to strive to be the best he can possibly be and shine through as a symbol of hope. Batman inspires people in one way but Superman tries to do it the best way he can without forcing anything on anyone. I think this is a concept that most people don't want to, or are afraid to comprehend.

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Old 08-29-2008, 01:04 AM   #19
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal L View Post
Frank Miller writes Superman that way because he doesn't understand him.

He can't get his mind wrapped around the fact that a character can be as good as Superman.

Just look at EVERYTHING he has ever written, it's as dark as can be. You only write about the things you know, and the basic things that make Superman who he is do not exist in Frank Miller's mind.

He's a crackpot.
Miller sees bad in everyting. Batman is ANGRY. It's his hook. Catwoman is literally a whore who goes areound wearing a cat costume when she steals. Green Arrow is Maimed and out to get the person he blames.

Miller has issues. He was actually at his peak when Stern wrote Daredevil and he just drew it.

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Old 08-31-2008, 01:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal L View Post
Frank Miller writes Superman that way because he doesn't understand him.

He can't get his mind wrapped around the fact that a character can be as good as Superman.

Just look at EVERYTHING he has ever written, it's as dark as can be. You only write about the things you know, and the basic things that make Superman who he is do not exist in Frank Miller's mind.

He's a crackpot.

I like this conclusion too

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Old 07-24-2008, 07:08 AM   #21
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

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You're still posting an opinion, not fact. You do realize that you as much a fanboy as anyone on this board right? I think you should just relax and not get so defensive about this. Especially with the "Superman haters" crap. Calm down.
Why is this an "opinion"? Superman is super-intelligent, of course. That was featured in so many stories in the golden/silver and bronze age and today it is SAID to be back - but we haven't seen it.

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Old 07-24-2008, 10:22 AM   #22
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

cwstriumphant, is that you?!

Is everybody leaving the DCboards now?

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Old 07-24-2008, 03:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

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Why is this an "opinion"? Superman is super-intelligent, of course. That was featured in so many stories in the golden/silver and bronze age and today it is SAID to be back - but we haven't seen it.
Because the character is a living character. He's changed so many times that it's pointless to say one iteration of the character is the correct one. It boils down to personal preference of which version of the character is yours. Superman currently has no established origin or continuity. So to say one or the other is flat out wrong is, well wrong. To pass off anyone's opinion of the character as incorrect. To consider said person as a Superman hater or a fanboy is also wrong. But what do I know? I apparently hate the character and can't see past my fanboyism. This is the last I'm post on the topic as it's one persons view against another, and I think people are missing that fact.

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Old 07-24-2008, 04:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

^^^

If it is CWS then I wouldn't worry too much about it. That's his schtick, complain about everything and then accuse anybody that doesn't agree with him of hating Superman and not being a true fan like him.

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Old 07-24-2008, 05:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

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Because the character is a living character. He's changed so many times that it's pointless to say one iteration of the character is the correct one. It boils down to personal preference of which version of the character is yours. Superman currently has no established origin or continuity. So to say one or the other is flat out wrong is, well wrong. To pass off anyone's opinion of the character as incorrect. To consider said person as a Superman hater or a fanboy is also wrong. But what do I know? I apparently hate the character and can't see past my fanboyism. This is the last I'm post on the topic as it's one persons view against another, and I think people are missing that fact.
Amazing that Superman fans want their character to be "dumb".

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