1938 Superman. The One To Adapt?

[Road Warrior]

They say that people can't relate to Superman. Well...let's go back to 1938 and Action Comics #1. We see him stop a corrupt Senator, save the life of a person on death row who was wrongfully convicted, defend a wife from her physically abusive husband, and prevent a kidnapped Lois Lane from possibly being raped. This is how Superman was introduced to us. He wasn't fighting aliens, monsters, and robots. He was simply a dude with superpowers who stood for truth, justice, and the American way. Maybe...that's the Superman they should adapt.

[Webhead2006]

it would be interesting if they did that. But i think it would turn off alot of fans. Since that take is so old and fans want to see more of the traits that were added on yrs and yrs since the start and all that.

[Daybreak_st]

I don't think so. I think people want the comic version of superman in this day and age and would be let down if with all the technology available to us today and how amazing everything could potentially look, we get a another superman movie with him just taking down a few punks.

Movies have more and more spectacle these days and especially scifi adn comic movies. Supes of all people deserves to be showcased in all his glory on the big screen. the story posibilities are limitless. Batman can take on organized crime, let supes deal with bigger more menacing threats.

[Catman]

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

Movies have more and more spectacle these days

You could always compromise. Say the villain was Brainiac, the destroyer of worlds. Aside from the big action scenes you could have Superman and Brainiac debating the pros and cons of Earth. Brainiac, of course, would argue that Earth is full of murderers, thieves, rapists, etc. While Superman would prove his point not by saying but by showing. He is a symbol of hope. The people have seen him stand up for truth & justice and now they are following in his footsteps.

[Webhead2006]

that too

[SuperDaniel]

While i don`t mind seeing that as new cartoon or tv-series, but as a movie?

Two words:

HELL NO!

Superman has grown beyond that.

[The Batman]

I'm starting to think that whoever does this project needs to do two things:

1. Read Action Comics 1, then have a conversation with people at DC comics

2. Dont do anything else but create a Superman for today. No Post Crisis or pre crisis....the directors version of Superman based on discussions of the character

[Vaibow]

Originally Posted by SuperDaniel

While i don`t mind seeing that as new cartoon or tv-series, but as a movie?

Two words:

HELL NO!

Superman has grown beyond that.

no reason why it can't be incorporated - superman is flying, he hears something, we go to a woman being attacked, then in doorway or alleyway entrance the shadow of supes appears... eyes glowing red...

Maybe as clark kent, he could stop a corrput senator and help a man on death row??

[Kurosawa]

Originally Posted by Road Warrior

They say that people can't relate to Superman. Well...let's go back to 1938 and Action Comics #1. We see him stop a corrupt Senator, save the life of a person on death row who was wrongfully convicted, defend a wife from her physically abusive husband, and prevent a kidnapped Lois Lane from possibly being raped. This is how Superman was introduced to us. He wasn't fighting aliens, monsters, and robots. He was simply a dude with superpowers who stood for truth, justice, and the American way. Maybe...that's the Superman they should adapt.

I'm a big advocate of Superman having a strong social conscience and fighting against social injustices, and I believe it can be done alongside the later elements as well. Certainly a corporate Luthor vs a populist Superman is a very natural conflict.

[Rodrigo90]

Superman beating up thugs is weak.

It would be the equivalent of Batman breaking up two toddlers fighting in nursery.

[SuperDaniel]

If it fits the story they are trying to tell but i doubt it with Braniac as the main villain. As a Tv Series? Yes. That would be cool actually!

like i said, Superman has grown beyond those feats.

[Slugster]

Superman is about the old American way not todays American way.
When people had Morals, Values and Respect.
and the dollar didnt mean everything.
This World is as corrupt and greedy as it could be and no one cares as long as it dont effect them personally (APATHY)
WE NEED SUPERMAN MORE TODAY THEN YESTERDAY
We need HOPE and and a feeling of a future.
The old Superman was less of a boy scout and more of a Thats enough!

[NotFadeAway]

Originally Posted by Slugster

Superman is about the old American way not todays American way.
When people had Morals, Values and Respect.
and the dollar didnt mean everything.
This World is as corrupt and greedy as it could be and no one cares as long as it dont effect them personally (APATHY)
WE NEED SUPERMAN MORE TODAY THEN YESTERDAY
We need HOPE and and a feeling of a future.
The old Superman was less of a boy scout and more of a Thats enough!

Some good dialouge can be taken from this post actually.

Superman:

"I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. No, not the American way of today, not the ways of the world. A world soaked in apathy, apathy that is in place of needed empathy. I stand for the old American way. I don't care about money, but values. The mighty dollar means nothing to me. I don't advocate greed, but morals. Corruption shows a lack of respect for the person beside you on the street, at the store, the person who has a child born in the room next to yours. Enough is enough, what this world needs is hope. And I've taken it upon myself to provide that hope. My life, my meaning, the reason I am here is just that. I'll never stop, and it's not like anyone could actually, stop me..................

Was that too preachy"?

Lois:

"Well, yeah! But it's a good message, gets your point across".

Superman:

"Kids probably won't think I'm that cool, will they"

Lois:

"Cool is really overrated. Infact, whats cool is really part of the problem nowadays".

Superman:

"True. Well, that bodes well for me".

Lois:

"It really does".

[Catman]

Originally Posted by Slugster

Superman is about the old American way not todays American way. When people had Morals, Values and Respect.

You're joking, right? Superman was created in the middle of the Great Depression. It was a time where people were struggling and in their desperation urban crime became a serious threat for the first time. Why else do you think that Superman was so tough on crime? Why else do you think that Batman's origin involves his parents being murdered by a thug? It was an issue that people were facing in the 1930s. In a way, nothing has changed. Morals, values, and respect is something we've always lacked.

[JamalYIgle]

Originally Posted by Catman

You're joking, right? Superman was created in the middle of the Great Depression. It was a time where people were struggling and in their desperation urban crime became a serious threat for the first time. Why else do you think that Superman was so tough on crime? Why else do you think that Batman's origin involves his parents being murdered by a thug? It was an issue that people were facing in the 1930s. In a way, nothing has changed. Morals, values, and respect is something we've always lacked.

Superman aslo wasn't able to juggle aircraft carriers and walk on the surface of the moon for giggles. The idea of Superman tossing around wife beaters and involving himself in busting local politicians in an anathema to how much the character has evolved or the last 75 years. While going after abusive people is a cute idea in the abstract, it makes him a coward to do so. Even worse it makes him a bully lording his power over others. Is that how you solve abuse? in the real world often times when an abuser is put in that position his initial victim winds up dead, that's a statistical fact. In the world of the comics it also feeds into the two main ideas that Superman constantly runs into:

1. The inability to save everyone all the time: he's not going to always be there to stop a threat. Most criminals real and imagined become repeat offenders including cases of abuse.
2. Solving other peoples problems. where does it stop? Why doesn't he fix the economy, or stop dictators in recognized governments, or wars? Why doesn't Superman have the time to take my grandmother to her dialysis appointments in Yorba Linda?

Superman's concerns should be the greater good, those problems that can't be handled by normal means, not stopping purse snatchers and beating up abusive drunks.

[Slugster]

Originally Posted by Catman

You're joking, right? Superman was created in the middle of the Great Depression. It was a time where people were struggling and in their desperation urban crime became a serious threat for the first time. Why else do you think that Superman was so tough on crime? Why else do you think that Batman's origin involves his parents being murdered by a thug? It was an issue that people were facing in the 1930s. In a way, nothing has changed. Morals, values, and respect is something we've always lacked.

No Im not joking ... I meant what I said. The morals and values of the average person back then where great compaired to average people of today.
Yes it was the great depression but Superman was what they needed then just like now. that is my point.
Today almost everyone is disrespectful esp young people morals and values are horrible. people back then at least cared about each other. and feared God.

[The Question]

Originally Posted by Slugster

No Im not joking ... I meant what I said. The morals and values of the average person back then where great compaired to average people of today.
Yes it was the great depression but Superman was what they needed then just like now. that is my point.
Today almost everyone is disrespectful esp young people morals and values are horrible. people back then at least cared about each other. and feared God.

The morals of the average person haven't changed drastically in America since the 30s, with the exception of less racism, sexism, xenophobia, and homophobia. Which is a good thing.

You say people today, especially young people, are disrespectful, but on any given day I see people going about their business, saying their pleases and thankyous, and trying to not encroach on the boundaries of others. For the average person, I think they're biggest crime is being too insular and emotionally distant towards others out of fear of encroaching on boundaries, stemming either from their morals or their desire not to look foolish. Obviously, there are people who overstep coundaries and treat people poorly, but from what I see they're hardly in the majority. The vast majority of people are simply cold and self involved, their sins are of ommision and inaction, not of anything they do.

And these days, respect for a woman's sexual boundaries is more common and accepted. Respect for the rights and oppinions of other races and nationalities is more common and expected. Respect for new and different ideas about how the world works and how it should be done is more common and expected. It's far from 100%. There are still rapists and racists and close minded, condascending people, but it's not as common and certainly not as celibrated as it was in the 1930s. I think, ethically, the western world is in a better place than it was 80 years ago.

Now. Back to Superman:

I think the interesting thing with Superman is that the changes in how he's been portrayed over the years does bear a striking resemblance to straight up character development, barring the fact that the current canon doesn't reflect this.

In 1938, when he started out, he was hotheaded, blunt, and went straight to the heart of the matter when dealing with problems. Like Kuro pointed out, he did things like strongarming people into straightening their lives out, destroying factories and buildings to stop some form of corruption or force some kind of social change. And while his advocacy for the rights of the downtrodden was admirable, and something that is often lacking in the more bland depictions of the character, his entire approach was incredibly immature and naive. You cannot solve the world's problems solely with brute force and stern words. The world is far too complex for that. The failure or organizations like the IRA or Al-Quaeda to achieve their goals.

And so, as the 40s go on he mellows out. He becomes more of someone willing to work with the establishment while still holding to his morals and beliefs. If he disagrees with the powers that be, he'll work against them if he has to, but subtley, intelligently, as to not make the situation worse or burn bridges. At the same time, he makes a bgreater attempt to be a role model to others, to inspire people and gain the public favor.

That of course leads into the heart of the silver age, which couldn't be considered character development unless you want to argue that Superman got really into psychadelics in the 60s, which might be ab argument worth making.

And then we get the 70s. During a good chunk of the 60s social issues tended to take a back seat in favor or incredibly stupid and uneccessarily weird sci-fi stories, and so when we get the Superman of the 70s and early 80s, we see something interesting. Having by now become DC's flafship hero, and the symbol of heroism in the DCU, he has become a symbol of the establishment and the status quo. I really don't think you can argue that this is something that came about after the Crisis, it certainly existed befoe that (although it probably was handled more slopily post-crisis), but he still had his ideals. He was much more a part of the system, but he was still an idealist within it, and he still worked to make a better world beyond just punching bad guys.

Then the Crisis happened, and everything was rebooted and streamlined. The Superman we got, initially, was a distillation of the popular image of Superman. Of the symbol of Heroism. The pure champion of the status quo. What we got was a man who wasn't who he was when he started out. Someone who, in his attempts to please people and be a role model and act with subtlety and grace, has lost his fire and has stopped fighting like he used to. And since then, we've been seeing his mid life crisis. We've been seeing him struggle with his status and his responsibilities as a symbol and his desire to do more and be more pro-active. I don't think post-crisis Superman is inherently bad, but it's very bi-polar, as there are a lot of writers who aren't that familiar with the character beyond his status as a brand name who are thrown in with the writers who get him better.

And over all, I think that's interesting. And I think that should definitely color his characterization. I think, ultimately, the ideal Superman is someone who has 1938's fire but has the grace and subtelty and understanding of responsibility that the more "status quo" Superman has, but I don't think he should start out that way. The Hero's Journey would be very dull if he's the perfect hero at the start.

[SuperDaniel]

If it fits the story they are trying to tell but i doubt it with Braniac as the main villain. As a Tv Series? Yes. That would be cool actually!

But i don`t think those things would fit into a two hour movie with so many more important action scenes than that.

[Kurosawa]

It's also proactive things that he would do-smashing up slums and forcing the Government to build better housing, destroying car plants that made unsafe vehicles, making a gun runner go and fight in the war that he was encouraging and profiteering from...not all legal, but all just, at least to him.

[Cousin Itt]

I'm all for Superman kicking some ass like he used to.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Cousin Itt

I'm all for Superman kicking some ass like he used to.

Not only that but I'd love to see the more violent sarcastic Superman who looks for justice but not as a boy-scout.

[manofsteel4life]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Not only that but I'd love to see the more violent sarcastic Superman who looks for justice but not as a boy-scout.

i think if people saw this in the movie, everyone would probably be standing up and clapping....ofcourse it would probably be more of the women.........that would really make him cool, and relatable

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by NotFadeAway

Some good dialouge can be taken from this post actually.

Superman:

"I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. No, not the American way of today, not the ways of the world. A world soaked in apathy, apathy that is in place of needed empathy. I stand for the old American way. I don't care about money, but values. The mighty dollar means nothing to me. I don't advocate greed, but morals. Corruption shows a lack of respect for the person beside you on the street, at the store, the person who has a child born in the room next yours. Enough is enough, what this world needs is hope. And I've taken it upon myself to provide that hope. My life, my meaning, the reason I am here is just that. I'll never stop, and it's not like anyone actually, stop me..................

Was that too preachy"?

Lois:

"Well, yeah! But it's a good message, gets your point across".

Superman:

"Kids probably won't think I'm that cool, will they"

Lois:

"Cool is really overrated. Infact, whats cool is really part of the problem nowadays".

Superman:

"True. Well, that bodes well for me".

Lois:

"It really does".

I love this.

Originally Posted by manofsteel4life

i think if people saw this in the movie, everyone would probably be standing up and clapping....ofcourse it would probably be more of the women.........that would really make him cool, and relatable

Absolutely.

[Timstuff]

Originally Posted by Cousin Itt

I'm all for Superman kicking some ass like he used to.

It's pretty ironic because before drawing Superman, the artist made illegal BDSM comics.

[KyleDW2]

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

It's also proactive things that he would do-smashing up slums and forcing the Government to build better housing, destroying car plants that made unsafe vehicles, making a gun runner go and fight in the war that he was encouraging and profiteering from...not all legal, but all just, at least to him.

"Not legal, but just." That right there is what is wrong with that approach with Superman. The early Superman stories pretty much worked under that banner. Superman didn't take no guff and didn't afraid of anything. He tore down a slum and fought the army because he felt like it. That's not what someone with Superman's power should do. If a guy who can't be killed begins making his own laws, even if its for the public good at the time, that's the beginnings of a dangerous and slippery slope.

I have a theory about the two big comic book universes. DC's population loves and trusts their heroes, while Marvel is fearful of them. Why is that? Because DC started off with Superman, a guy who upheld the law and didn't wear a mask, who fought for truth and justice and the American way, who started off as Superboy and earned his place in the public's hearts. Marvel, meanwhile, had the Human Torch, an android who could kill you by standing next to you and Namor, a psychotic Atlantean prince with the world's worst temper. That's the difference. Superman earns people's trust. That's what he has to do. And in order to do that, he has to be hard, but he also has to work strictly within the limits of the law. That's why post-Crisis Lex gets away with so much. Superman knows how bad he is, but so long as Lex works the legal system in the way he knows how to, Superman can't touch him. That's the Superman that earned the public's trust. He's the guy who would gladly let Lex go free rather than turn into what Lex thinks he is: someone who wants to impose his own morality on the world.