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Old 03-06-2010, 01:59 PM   #1
TheVelvetOnion
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Default What was wrong with the current trilogy?

We have a topic on reboots, that is full of our hopes and ideas of what the ideal x-men movie would be like. But i simply ask this question. What to you did you find wrong with the current x-men trilogy?

Was it the non-canical timeline the movie universe followed?
Was it the the actors/actresses that were cast in the role?
Was it just down to the story?
Or simply too much interfierance?

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Old 03-06-2010, 03:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

Pushing Cyclops aside and killing him off early in the 3rd.

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Old 03-06-2010, 07:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

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Pushing Cyclops aside and killing him off early in the 3rd.
I don't even like Cyclops and I hated that. I felt like it was just an excuse to make everything about Wolverine again.

Think about it. It is Scott's girlfriend (wife?) that has turned against them. X3 should have focused heavily on Scott.

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Old 03-06-2010, 09:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

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Think about it. It is Scott's girlfriend (wife?) that has turned against them. X3 should have focused heavily on Scott.
That's what I assumed would happen.

Then the X3 script review was released on the net and I read that Scott gets killed 5 minutes after showing up. I was like "what."

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Old 02-12-2011, 10:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

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Pushing Cyclops aside and killing him off early in the 3rd.
I thought his death made the whole movie meaningful (just like when the Hulk died in the last TV episode). This is my take: If you want far out fantasy, read the stories; if you want cool Sci-Fi, then the movies are your bag. I read the comics as a kid and loved them. However, now that I'm an old geezer, I love the films. They capture the best of the X-Universe while making it believable at the same time.

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Old 02-12-2011, 05:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

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I thought his death made the whole movie meaningful (just like when the Hulk died in the last TV episode).
I don't see how, considering that the movies reduced him to a non-entity and his screentime for X3 didn't even amount to 5 minutes.

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Old 03-06-2010, 04:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

That's actually a good one - good as in a good reason why it was bad.

Personally i think Bryan Singer didnt know what to do with the character because he couldnt relate to him. Bryan Singer stated that mutants face alot of similar situations that same sex sexuality faces... like the phobia, exceptance, coming out... you can see that he has used that as a guide to alot of the characters for example.

Iceman - coming out (as a mutant) to his parents
Wolverine - lost and confused as to who he was
Magneto - proud of what he is
Senitor Kelly - phobia and not really understanding mutants.

with Cyclops, and he's not the only character i noticed in the movie series you felt there was no social problem. They carried on as if they were just there and everything that was happening was happening around them but not happening too them.

I mean, he didnt want wolverine around in the x-mansion because he believed he would bring trouble. In x2 he was just carrying on as normal but became a puppet of stryker, however the outcome of that movie saw him lose the love of his life...and really wolverine was a factor of this, because wolverine went to that school, if you think about wolverine origins. Stryker could of been stopped, it could of not happend. and i mean cyclops could of been really made at wolverine for what he has brought to the school. then we get to x-men 3 and by then cyclops has just had enough... finds jean and dies. well so we believe...

again to me, alot could of been done with cyclops.

only x-men 1 was he really best utilised, but through x2 and 3, we really should of seen his leadership. You know it would of been better for storm to have been captured and turned into a puppet, but have cyclops losing control of the situation only to redeem himself. Then by x3 - yeah maybe start off with cyclops disappearance but bring him back at the end of the movie... thats something ive always felt was missing... Cyclops should of appeared at the end of the movie maybe on alcatraz and it was him that kills phoenix... but then we all know x-men was about hugh jackman and what was his character? oh thats right wolerine.

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Old 03-06-2010, 07:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

I certainly agree with that Cyclops complaint. I know why it happened (Marsden jumping ship leaving few shooting days on X3) but that doesn't make it any easier. Also, setting up Colossus beautifully in X2 but to waste him in X3 (with worse CG looking powers)was a shame. Beast looked great and was perfectly cast but essentially wasted as well. I liked X3 but it did feel a bit rushed. A masterful film like X2 was going to be tough to follow anyway but circumstances made it harder on everyone.

Complaints aside, the X-Trilogy honestly stacks up with any movie trilogy in history. (Spidey, Indy, Rocky, Bourne, Star Wars, etc.) X3 lost some steam for the franchise but still found enough to finish it properly. It was more money concerns that led to spin off films instead of shooting an X4.

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Old 03-06-2010, 07:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

X-Men was a perfect example at adapting the fantastical comic book adventures of the X-Men into a real life setting without compromising too much, making their uniforms all leather black made more sense than colorful vibrant colored spandex and the performances were done in serious manner.

X-Men 2 was a perfect sequel expanding on the plotlines from the first movie into a more satisfying action pic without shoving every new mutant on screen.

X-Men 3 while still good shouldn't have killed off 3 of the major characters, the story felt rushed with too many characters not getting enough screen time coupled with a shorter runtime for what was intended as a grand epic finale didn't really feel satisfying but having Magneto retain a hint of his powers at the end was a clever idea, too bad further sequels will never expound on that.

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Old 04-04-2010, 12:53 PM   #10
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Wall Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

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X-Men 2 was a horrid sequel expanding on and in fact almost being a remake of the plotlines - only in reverse - from the first movie into a more muddled and incomprehensible action pic (yeah magneto happened to be standing there to save the x-jet, convenient, the entire put the knives down scene etc etc) without shoving every new mutant on screen.

agreed

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Old 04-29-2010, 09:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

I will have to agree on Cyclops. I didn't think I was much of a fan, but he was so badly handled that I feel really defensive toward the character.

Things didn't lose their way for me (and probably many others) until 3. I don't actually think it was that bad a story, but the group is completely dismantled by the end mostly because of actor's schedules. Cyclops should have had a much larger role in that chapter, and I can only hope that if a 4th comes to be, his death is retconned and he's given the spotlight finally.

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Old 06-05-2013, 11:17 AM   #12
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

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I certainly agree with that Cyclops complaint. I know why it happened (Marsden jumping ship leaving few shooting days on X3) but that doesn't make it any easier. Also, setting up Colossus beautifully in X2 but to waste him in X3 (with worse CG looking powers)was a shame. Beast looked great and was perfectly cast but essentially wasted as well. I liked X3 but it did feel a bit rushed. A masterful film like X2 was going to be tough to follow anyway but circumstances made it harder on everyone.

Complaints aside, the X-Trilogy honestly stacks up with any movie trilogy in history. (Spidey, Indy, Rocky, Bourne, Star Wars, etc.) X3 lost some steam for the franchise but still found enough to finish it properly. It was more money concerns that led to spin off films instead of shooting an X4.
Agreed on the Cyclops and Colossus comments.

The worst part about the entire franchise is that they've taken a team franchise (comics and cartoons) and made it focus all three films on one main character (Wolverine). I can understand with the first film the audience needs someone to relate to as a point of entry in this world but after that they continued to minimize the rest of the cast to small supporting roles. Additionally they removed most if not all of the fantastical elements of the franchise. It stripped it of some of the more exaggerated villains like Apocalypse, Sinister, the Savage Land, etc.

In a post Marvel Universe industry the standards have been set pretty high for comic based films. We have learned to accept and even expect large epic battles and spectacle. Also Avengers showed us how to balance a team movie amongst an ensemble cast without minimizing anyone. Avengers actually felt like a team, X-men was always the Wolverine show.

I think that's ultimately the failure of the franchise. First Class gave a glimmer of hope by focusing on other main characters and leaving Wolverine out, thank goodness. But now with Singer back it looks it will be more of the same. This franchise will have to work some real magic if expects to be anything like the Marvel U.

It is past time for a complete reboot of this franchise and I think it's a real mistake to continue it as is. Batman has been rebooted, Spider-man has been rebooted, Superman has been rebooted, I'm sorry but X-men and Wolverine are not above being rebooted. A change in look, tone, and actors may actually spark some genuine interest in this franchise. But more of the same? What's the point.

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Old 06-05-2013, 06:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

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Originally Posted by Daybreak_st View Post

In a post Marvel Universe industry the standards have been set pretty high for comic based films. We have learned to accept and even expect large epic battles and spectacle. Also Avengers showed us how to balance a team movie amongst an ensemble cast without minimizing anyone. Avengers actually felt like a team, X-men was always the Wolverine show.

It is past time for a complete reboot of this franchise and I think it's a real mistake to continue it as is. Batman has been rebooted, Spider-man has been rebooted, Superman has been rebooted, I'm sorry but X-men and Wolverine are not above being rebooted. A change in look, tone, and actors may actually spark some genuine interest in this franchise. But more of the same? What's the point.
I think Last Stand's final battle was a huge step in "large epic battles and spectacle". The was the first time we saw the X-Men (and comic heroes in general) engage in a 6 on 100+ battle. And seeing Phoenix obliterate Alcatraz Island along with 100s of mutants and American soldiers was the first "comic book" scene we saw in comic films.

And I do agree, even though I am anxiously anticipating Days of Future Past, I will be more than happy if/when Marvel finally retains the rights to my favorite characters in comics and reboots the X-Men franchise.

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Old 03-07-2010, 03:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

Mind you, i didnt like Bryan Singers treatment for x3 so if he had stayed im wondering if x3 would of been any better. Mind you i dont really blame bret ratner... this movie was almost made without a director so everything was thought off before bret came to the movie.

To me, this is what should of happend...
> The only main cast members should of been, Professor X, Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Iceman, Rogue, Pyro, Magneto & Mystique...
"Non of the above should of died in the movie"
> The only new characters to the mix should of been Beast, Gambit, Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost & Avalanche... and they should of had roles only just larger than a cameo with exception to Sebastian Shaw who would serve as the main protagonist.

The Cure - storyline should not of been used, it is a good story but merging it with the phoenix saga was a mistake.

The story should of just focused on the growing war between humans and mutants, fuled by those who would profit and gain from such war.

The story should of been as follows...

After the collapse of the alkali lake, Shaw industries has begun work to fix the structure. were upon they find Jean Grey... alive. Shaw industries is an umbrella corporation that secretely funded strykers work. However Shaw industries is a mutant based organisation who benifits from the conflict of the war between humans and mutants. Anyway one of there members Emma Frost discovers the potential Jean Grey has and Shaw Industries plans to use this to fule the war between humans and mutants for there own profit. Elsewhere at the xavier instatue, Beast has returned from his research facility to help teach at the school and lend a hand with the x-men team as there now limited in numbers. cyclops is a broken man unable to lead the team, he leaves. Leaving Storm to lead the team which now consists of Iceman and Rogue. Rogue has now become more confident with her powers and wolverine takes them on a danger room session where this is shown, however we also see Iceman and Rogue drift apart. Iceman becomes obessed with finding Pyro and facing him in confrontation, Iceman is angry he left to join Magneto, it is this that is why Rogue feels they are drifting apart. The school is continuing on when Jean awakes at the Hellfire Club. Professor Xavier senses her, the x-men join to go find her, however cyclops who had left but had a psychic link to jean sensed she was alive and goes solo to find her. Elsewhere - Magneto is in hiding, with Mystique and Pyro plotting there next move. We learn of two new mutants that has joined his brotherhood, Avalanche and Gambit - Avalanche just loves distruction where as Magneto found a use in a thief to steal plans on anything the humans were upto.

The whole story will centre on Sebastian Shaw who uses the Phoenix to cause a threat that the humans would try to retaliate - maybe sentinals... but not giant robots. Which are being manufactured by Shaw Industries making them alot of money. As the x-men try to stop Phoenix and failing, Cyclops is the only one that is able to break Jean from the Phoenix persona. Re-initating him as the leader of the x-men. However the damage is too late as she has sparked a war with Magneto and his brotherhood. you still get the iceman vs pyro fight. However Gambit plays a sort of big role as he wasnt entirely sure about magnetos plan and when the war starts and falling for Rogue he joins to help the x-men. As sentinals are deployed and Cyclops and Jean renew there faith in each other, Jean becomes the phoenix again but a good phoenix and destroys all the sentinals in a scene similar to how jean atomized everythin in alcatraz in x3 - she also kills the hellfire club after exposing them behind the war to the world.

after that a new peace treaty is signed which is all following xaviers dream. Magneto has a renewed faith in humanity losing his hatrid and finally bringing xavier and magneto to being friends again. the brotherhood are disbanded but the conflict between pyro and iceman still continues... to which Iceman leaves the school to join X-Factor - which is established by the goverment.

This all has set up for the 4th movie where the legacy virus would bring back Magneto's hatrid for humanity. and also introduce Sinister

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Old 03-08-2010, 07:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

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To me, this is what should of happend...
> The only main cast members should of been, Professor X, Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Iceman, Rogue, Pyro, Magneto & Mystique...
"Non of the above should of died in the movie"
> The only new characters to the mix should of been Beast, Gambit, Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost & Avalanche... and they should of had roles only just larger than a cameo with exception to Sebastian Shaw who would serve as the main protagonist.
I thought Xavier's death was done well and was one of the highlights of the film for me. The X-Men had the funeral and realised Jean had reached the point of no return.

Cyclops should not have been killed or if he did have to be killed, kill him at the end as a result of killing Phoenix.

If the new characters roles are only just larger than a cameo, why bother having them in the first place unless they serve a purpose in the story that no other existing character could serve?

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The Cure - storyline should not of been used, it is a good story but merging it with the phoenix saga was a mistake.
I agree and disagree. For the length of movie we got, they should of definitely done one storyline or the other rather than merging the two. It wasn't really a merged storyline either. It was two plotlines running side by side that occasionally crossed over every now and then. Neither story got the time it really deserved. Had the film been longer, and the plotlines better merged, I reckon it would have been an overall better film. I enjoyed the film for what it is, it just feels rushed though.

Quote:
after that a new peace treaty is signed which is all following xaviers dream. Magneto has a renewed faith in humanity losing his hatrid and finally bringing xavier and magneto to being friends again. the brotherhood are disbanded but the conflict between pyro and iceman still continues... to which Iceman leaves the school to join X-Factor - which is established by the goverment.

This all has set up for the 4th movie where the legacy virus would bring back Magneto's hatrid for humanity. and also introduce Sinister
I'm not too keen on the idea of Magneto losing his hatred then getting it back for the next movie.
Magneto: I hate humans.......no I don't.........yes I do.

I like the idea of a mutant taskforce established by the government, however, I wouldn't necessarily call it X-Factor.

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Old 03-08-2010, 08:07 AM   #16
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

Nothing was wrong with them. I think they turned out better than I would have thought.

Only thing is your average person don't kno who the **** difference is from Banshee or Beast. And you gotta sell happy meals and bedsheets, and apise all of us. The strength of X2 anchors the trilogy and that movie alone could stand w/ even weaker accompaning films. 1A is Superman trilogy, 1B is the X-men

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Old 03-08-2010, 08:15 AM   #17
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The cure storyline- Rogue really should have been centre stage to deal with this. Because the storyline wasn't given the focus it deserves, it felt like Rogue's decision to take the cure was rushed. Rogue took the cure because she was jealous of Iceman getting touchy feely with Kitty which is basically the wrong way to go about it. I don't actually mind Rogue taking the cure if she had properly thought about it and agonised over the decision. There are valid reasons why she shouldn’t have taken the cure; she’s changing who she is for someone else etc. However, there are valid reasons for why she should have taken the cure:

She wouldn’t be able to have kids with her powers- nobody would be able to touch her long enough to do the deed. You could argue that she could get artificially inseminated but then comes the question, would the baby survive in her womb as it has some of her DNA and could be immune to her power or would her powers kill it? It’s uncertain.

She wouldn’t be able to have a proper relationship with someone as there would not be that physical closeness that a relationship requires. She could end up dying alone.etc.

Overall I do enjoy the trilogy, there are a couple of scenes that annoy me.

In X3, Rogue says to Wolverine “I want to be able to touch people. A hug, a handshake, a kiss.” Yet in X2 and the alternate X3 ending, she hugs Bobby quite happily with her powers. Therefore her powers don’t stop her from hugging anyone so long as she doesn’t touch their skin.

Another scene that bothers me in X2, is that when they’ve run out of Stryker’s place to find the helicopter gone, they just stand there. They don’t think to run through the trees on the right to the X-Jet. If they did, Rogue wouldn’t have had to crash land the jet and the engines would have worked and Jean would have lived. Had the helicopter been there would they have gone and left Rogue and Iceman? Rogue and Iceman didn’t know the dam had ruptured, yet the X-Men made no effort to warn them.

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Old 07-07-2010, 02:04 PM   #18
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My view on the Cyclops thing is this: He got the short end of the stick through the whole trilogy and being killed off was a crappy send-off, but it wasn't the original plan - it's just the option that Bryan Singer and James Marsden's departures left. The reason Rogue is AWOL throughout the entire movie and why Mystique is cured in her third scene is because the movie was made so quickly that not all of the actors could commit to the full shoot schedule, so we got what we got. But with that in mind, I do think that Scott got a send-off that did his character justice. He died for the woman he loved, which is what he was willing to do in X2, so he at least died knowing that he hadn't completely failed Jean by not being able to save her - he did probably realize that perhaps he had bad taste in women by that point, though.

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In X3, Rogue says to Wolverine “I want to be able to touch people. A hug, a handshake, a kiss.” Yet in X2 and the alternate X3 ending, she hugs Bobby quite happily with her powers. Therefore her powers don’t stop her from hugging anyone so long as she doesn’t touch their skin.
I take the Rogue scene as her stating that things Logan may take for granted are things she has to consider everyday. She needed to be covered up at all times just so nobody accidentally gets hurt because of her. So the hug line maybe wasn't a literal concern of hers, but it sounded much better than her saying to her father figure in the movie "I just wanna kiss and screw mah boyfriend!!!" - it was a much more poetic way to state her problems.

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Old 07-07-2010, 02:22 PM   #19
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I take the Rogue scene as her stating that things Logan may take for granted are things she has to consider everyday. She needed to be covered up at all times just so nobody accidentally gets hurt because of her. So the hug line maybe wasn't a literal concern of hers, but it sounded much better than her saying to her father figure in the movie "I just wanna kiss and screw mah boyfriend!!!" - it was a much more poetic way to state her problems.
Indeed.

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Old 09-01-2010, 07:30 PM   #20
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The movies were structured wrong, IMO. Wolverine should not have had the main focus every film. Magneto and Mystique did not need to be in every single movie. Decisions like this resulted in them having to give jackman, mckellan, and romijn ample screentime that couldve been given to someone else.

Rogue was just underutilized. She was mainly Wolverine's little sister or Iceman's girlfriend. Sure, they mentioned her inability to touch people, but beyond that....eh. She could've utilized her powers in much more ways...or any way at all, really.

Cyclops....where do I start? The way Singer portrays this guy made him unsympathetic. He painted him as Logan's rival, which is the sad result of deciding to place the main focus on Wolverine. Scott barely got decent screentime, and when he got it, it was as the guy who stood in Logan's way, which results in most people not caring for scott at all. This also changes the perception of the Logan/Jean relationship.

Which brings me to my next point...if Singer had made Cyclops a character people cared for, X3 wouldnt have butchered the Logan/Jean dynamic. Even though Singer had Jean choose Scott, the audience dosent care about Scott, since Singer decided Logan was the character the audience should invest in. So now, people assume that Logan and Jean are meant to be together, but that a hole Scott is in the way. The audience perceived it that way, so its no surprise they ended up focusing on logan/jean in X3.

Also, at the end of the day, the films just arent as exciting as their fellow superhero franchises. There's a reason why Iron Man, Batman, and Spider-Man make more money than the X-Men. The X-Men films, when good, are good, but not great. The action isnt as mind blowing as the Spider-Man films. The stories arent as rich as the current Batman films. Much of the characters aren't as charismatic or likable as the ones in Iron Man. The X-Men films are like the old Star Trek films: they give off this sci fi vibe that isnt wholly accessible, and they're somewhat safe.

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Old 11-02-2012, 08:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

Hi everyone, first of all, I've had a good search around and wasn't able to find a more appropriate thread for what I'm about to ask. If this is in the wrong place, then I apologise! But there's a lot of questions I feel need answered when it comes to the X-Men movies.

Firstly, as you can see I'm new here. So hi everyone! The name's Chris, and I'm from Newcastle, UK .

Basically, over the last few days, I decided to watch all of the current X-Men movies in order, starting with First Class, and ending with Last stand. I appreciate what I'm about to ask us likely to have been brought up on here on many occasions, so I apologise if this is the case.

Emma Frost: Is Kayla's sister (Emma) in Origins of Wolverine, Emma Frost?

Xavier: He lost the use of his legs in First Class on the beach at the end as a young man, yet was able to walk at the end of Origins of Wolverine (set after First Class) AND in a flashback on Last stand, both times hairless. While i'm talking about First Class, isn't Cyclops' brother supposed to be younger than him, yet was one of the main mutants on First Class?

These may be small things and people may think I'm nitpicking here. I also know First Class has been regarded by many as a reboot, yet Hugh Jackman makes a cameo appearance as Wolverine from the original series. Are we supposed to disregard Last Stand and The Origins of Wolverine and pretend they never happened?

There's too may small things in all of the movies likes the above that contradict each other.

I hope somebody can shed some light on the above. Again, I apologise if what I have asked has been covered elsewhere in detail.

Cheers.

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Old 03-08-2010, 07:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

Magneto in the comics has had more mood swings when it comes to his feelings towards humans than.... well you get the point

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Old 03-09-2010, 04:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVelvetOnion View Post
Magneto in the comics has had more mood swings when it comes to his feelings towards humans than.... well you get the point
The films aren't the comics though.

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Old 03-09-2010, 04:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

Double Post.

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Old 03-09-2010, 04:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: What was wrong with the current trilogy?

lack of Cyclops and the need for other lead villains like sinister and apocalypse and the sentinels are what i didn't like about the films. oh, and for 3 i also didn't like that they tried to jumble a phoenix story and a cure story in one. both suffered greatly, as there wasn't enough time to explore how each character felt about whether or not they should be cured. and the changed phoenix into a split personality rather than explain an origin. I also didn't like the way they set up angel to be important only to do nothing with him at all. and didn't like the way the writers thought it would be cool to kill of all the good guys and cure all the bad guys, only to reveal that they might get their powers back. it felt almost like the bad guys one and the good guys lost.

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