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Old 08-13-2011, 10:43 PM   #1
Brain Damage
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Default So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

Certainly one of the best made Batman films, and certainly the most under appreciated one. The writing in it is genius and whats awesome about it is that up until Nolan came along, it was really the first Batman movie that was ABOUT Batman. I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for it, but consider the amount of character development and exploration of roots and motivations we get of the Wayne/Batman character in this compared to the other ones.'
It is also, in my opinion the only Batman movie to get a love relationship absolutely right. The Dark Knight came close, but this manages to take a female character and make her someone equal to play off of not only Bruce and Batman, and manages to develop this relationship full circle throughout the entire movie.
My only real beef with this film is that the way the Phantasm's powers work is never explained, and its very mysterious. But that's really about it. What are your thoughts?

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Old 08-13-2011, 11:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

Ah, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, I haven't seen that film in years. Is it available on Blu-Ray or even DVD?

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Old 08-14-2011, 12:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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Ah, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, I haven't seen that film in years. Is it available on Blu-Ray or even DVD?
Mask Of The Phantasm on DVD for only $3.90 bran new on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Mask-Ph...3338092&sr=8-1

They really need to release this on blu ray....

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Old 08-14-2011, 02:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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They really need to release this on blu ray....
I dunno, I kinda like the way they look on a regular DVD. They still have a little bit of "grit" to them, which makes it look like an older '30-'40s style cartoon that it's based on. It would look too clean, IMO. Someone said the same thing about wanting BTAS on Blu-Ray, and again, it would look a bit too clean.

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Old 08-14-2011, 05:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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Outside of The Dark Knight, this is probably the best Batman movie to date. It's practically flawless.

My favorite scene is the whole final confrontation between Andrea and the Joker. When the Joker laughs in the face of death when the whole World of the Future theme park starts to explode, I get chills. Shirley Walker's music in this scene is epic.
I personally don't think I can fairly compare Batman: Mask of the Phantasm to either of the Nolan films, since I only have a fossilized VHS of it, and I haven't watched it in years, quite possibly since before Batman Begins came out. While I remember it fondly, I don't know how that opinion might change with my maturity in the intervening years.

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Mask Of The Phantasm on DVD for only $3.90 bran new on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Mask-Ph...3338092&sr=8-1

They really need to release this on blu ray....
Thanks!

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Old 08-14-2011, 05:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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I dunno, I kinda like the way they look on a regular DVD. They still have a little bit of "grit" to them, which makes it look like an older '30-'40s style cartoon that it's based on. It would look too clean, IMO. Someone said the same thing about wanting BTAS on Blu-Ray, and again, it would look a bit too clean.
It's just a personal preference although I still watch some shows & films in standard def. I don't think the series was created in a wide screen format.

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Old 08-14-2011, 05:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

I have to say that one of the few missed opportunities of Batman: Mask of the Phantasm was the lack of a follow-up. The revelations and character growth nor any of the events of the movie were ever referred to in Batman: The Animated Series. As a result, it comes off as less the DCAU equivalent of Batman Begins, but an out-of-continuity tale. It's not so much a problem with the film in and of itself, but the film as a part of a larger continuity. Does that make sense?

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Old 08-13-2011, 11:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

I'm not sure about Blue-Ray but as I own the DVD myself, I can assure you, yes

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Old 08-13-2011, 11:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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I'm not sure about Blue-Ray but as I own the DVD myself, I can assure you, yes
Ok, thank God. Because all I have is the fossilized VHS tape from when I was a kid.

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Old 08-14-2011, 03:12 AM   #10
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

Outside of The Dark Knight, this is probably the best Batman movie to date. It's practically flawless.

My favorite scene is the whole final confrontation between Andrea and the Joker. When the Joker laughs in the face of death when the whole World of the Future theme park starts to explode, I get chills. Shirley Walker's music in this scene is epic.

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Old 08-14-2011, 10:47 AM   #11
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

Give me this over the Nolan movies anyday. I'm not a fan of his cold and distant style in anyway since his characters just seem like plot devices and not actual people. Whereas in an animated film ironically there is so much genuine emotion that could be felt throughout the film thanks to the writing. Characters are very empathic and actually feel very real. I have yet to see another Batman movie pack the same emotional resonance.

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Old 08-14-2011, 10:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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Give me this over the Nolan movies anyday. I'm not a fan of his cold and distant style in anyway since his characters just seem like plot devices and not actual people. Whereas in an animated film ironically there is so much genuine emotion that could be felt throughout the film thanks to the writing. Characters are very empathic and actually feel very real. I have yet to see another Batman movie pack the same emotional resonance.
Yep, I feel pretty much the same. The scene in the cave were Alfred hands him the cowl and he puts it on for the first time is spectacular.
Actually, I'm only sorta joking when i say if I could use Alfred's "My God!" as my Text Message alert I would...

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Old 08-14-2011, 10:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

I didn't like the Phantasm being a girl. I didn't when I was 5 and I don't now. Sue me.

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Old 08-14-2011, 10:58 AM   #14
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

I saw this on its opening weekend when I was ten. I remember at the time feeling like it was much more adult than the animated series, of which I was a huge fan.

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Old 08-14-2011, 11:00 AM   #15
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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I didn't like the Phantasm being a girl. I didn't when I was 5 and I don't now. Sue me.
How come? Just outta curiosity...

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Old 08-14-2011, 11:08 AM   #16
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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How come? Just outta curiosity...

I could see why. It just was ill-executed at times and too synonymous to the Batman Returns romantic subplot hook making it seem redundant. Still that's just one slight on an otherwise pretty damn well rounded piece of entertainment though.

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Old 08-14-2011, 01:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

I never felt comfortable giving this past love character that big improtance. Basically all Bruce's decisions regarding Batman were made because of Andrea. I just didn't like that.

And the animation wasn't much better than in the regular series.

I liked it, but much less than Burton's or Nolan's movies.

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Old 08-14-2011, 01:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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I never felt comfortable giving this past love character that big improtance. Basically all Bruce's decisions regarding Batman were made because of Andrea. I just didn't like that.

And the animation wasn't much better than in the regular series.

I liked it, but much less than Burton's or Nolan's movies.
I don't think that's true at all. I think before he met her, Bruce was going with his plan full force, but what Andrea did was introduce second thoughts into his head, something that I haven't seen in any other incarnation (Bruce questioning if he wants to be Batman BEFORE he becomes Batman). Bruce didn't become Batman because of Andrea, but when she left him he realized that in this world he couldn't find happiness, and that he shouldn't try to look for it. In a way, Bruce grows up through Andrea, when she leaves he finally faces up to his responsibilities and becomes the costumed avenger we love today. Just my two cents.

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Old 08-15-2011, 06:23 AM   #19
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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I don't think that's true at all. I think before he met her, Bruce was going with his plan full force, but what Andrea did was introduce second thoughts into his head, something that I haven't seen in any other incarnation (Bruce questioning if he wants to be Batman BEFORE he becomes Batman). Bruce didn't become Batman because of Andrea, but when she left him he realized that in this world he couldn't find happiness, and that he shouldn't try to look for it. In a way, Bruce grows up through Andrea, when she leaves he finally faces up to his responsibilities and becomes the costumed avenger we love today. Just my two cents.
Agreed. When she left, he realized he had nothing left. The idea of a normal life was gone for him. Well, there was Alfred, but that is a different type of relationship.

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I think Payaso means Bruce was willing to drop his crusade to become Batman in order to be with Andrea. When she came back into his life years later and they re-connected, he was again contemplating giving up to be with her.
Yeah, but Bruce tried to give up on being Batman to be with Rachel in TDK, too.

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Rachel's involvement in Bruce's path to becoming Batman in Batman Begins is VERY different from Andrea's involvement in Bruce's path to becoming Batman in Batman: Mask of the Phantasm.
Rachel gave Bruce the foundation of his moral and ethical codes as Batman, and her conversation with Bruce in BB is the beginning of Bruce's journey to becoming Batman.
In B:MotP, Bruce was already on the path to becoming Batman, and was willing to give that up to be with Andrea.
Right, but it's uncertain what would've become of Bruce had Rachel never dropped him off at Falcone's. Nolan's Bruce needed to be spoonfed a lot of moral codes and dilemmas to get into the mindset of becoming Batman. He was directionless, and I'm not sure that he would've gone on any journey around the world without Rachel and Falcone.

And again in TDK, he was willing to give up on being Batman to be with Rachel. In MOTP, I believe he wanted to financially help the police to make up for not being Batman, and in TDK he wanted to um...Well Dent was on the scene so apparently everyting would be fine now

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Old 08-15-2011, 02:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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but in nolan's films, bruce's reason to become batman is somewhat because of rachel.

i mean at least in the phantasm, andrea derails his batman quest while in nolan's batman, rachel motivates him to become batman

Not too happy about that either. I think BB was a good promise but a so-so execution. Rachel was part of the latter.



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Yeah, but Bruce tried to give up on being Batman to be with Rachel in TDK, too.
But when 1) he was already Batman for a long while and 2) when he thought harvey could do a better job than Batman. Bruce thought Batman was not going to be necessary anymore.

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Old 08-15-2011, 02:40 PM   #21
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Not too happy about that either. I think BB was a good promise but a so-so execution. Rachel was part of the latter.





But when 1) he was already Batman for a long while and 2) when he thought harvey could do a better job than Batman. Bruce thought Batman was not going to be necessary anymore.
i agree with the rachel part, i somewhat really didn't like this.

with regards to andrea, i think it really humanised bruce, alot of people would say that his ration to take an event that traumatised him as a child and to run with it is verging on insanity. his interaction with andrea and his ability to love and almost heal makes him human. plus it makes his descent into batman a dual-event mixed with a long investment steady fall of the mind body and soul, followed by a complete collaspe of the heart.

which is why the scene of the birth of batman is that bit more potent.

infact, till then he had been unable to strike fear into people, and simply putting on a costume wouldn't have done it, he needed that transaction and inteaction with andrea to sell it.

and the beautiful thing is that andrea is pretty much the same except for in this situation, she's proactive while bruce is reactive. BUT it's because of this, she can kill and he can't.

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Old 08-14-2011, 06:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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I never felt comfortable giving this past love character that big improtance. Basically all Bruce's decisions regarding Batman were made because of Andrea. I just didn't like that.

And the animation wasn't much better than in the regular series.

I liked it, but much less than Burton's or Nolan's movies.
but in nolan's films, bruce's reason to become batman is somewhat because of rachel.

i mean at least in the phantasm, andrea derails his batman quest while in nolan's batman, rachel motivates him to become batman

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Old 08-14-2011, 01:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

I think Payaso means Bruce was willing to drop his crusade to become Batman in order to be with Andrea. When she came back into his life years later and they re-connected, he was again contemplating giving up to be with her.

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Old 08-14-2011, 01:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

In the end, Bruce's decision to go on with Batman was because of love spite. She's not with me, okay, I'm angry, I'll become Batman to let this anger out.

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Old 08-14-2011, 06:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

the phantasm is a great story about two people's descent into a revenge based life and their 2 attempts to mutually save each other.

the film is so beautiful, I can't even bring to words how i feel about it.

and the joker was just pure awesome, his final laugh is so.....breathtaking.

shirley walker bless her soul also put together the best batman score together for that film.

and bruce putting on his mask for the first time is THE DEFINITIVE SUPERHERO MOMENT IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF CINEMA.

alfred's reaction, the man who's raised him from a tiny boy, sees lil bruce has become a souless monster, an outworldly entity and his 'my god' just highlights how much of bruce's humanity he's given up to his course. That scene is in affect the death of bruce wayne

let me not even talk about the 'i didn't count on being happy' graveyard scene which still makes me cry to this day.

phantasm has it all.

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