Star Wars - Part 10

[Hunter Rider]

^^^ That one was £133.



This is a pretty cool piece.

I also wish I could get the piece below exactly like that rather than with all the excess stuff.

[8wid]

I'm thinking again if they're was a Star Wars reboot, is there really any point in having the kind of character that Luke is? In terms of the young, naive farm boy who longs for escape from his isolated existence? If Ben was the only one that lived on Tatooine and had hidden there to escape the purges of the Empire the story might have been stronger from his point of view. Leia does not need to be a long lost twin sister, there was no point to it before except to add more tension in the need to defeat Darth Vader. What if she was just a normal hot and sexy princess with her role in the Imperial Senate still? There might be a Chewbacca style co-pilot, but Ben would fill up the role of Han Solo mostly too. It seems much more interesting to me that seeing Ben return to the Galactic stage to redeem his fallen apprentice instead of scapegoating his son into doing it makes the story stronger. Star Wars does not have to be a coming of age story.

It would feel more like a strong central male role like Indiana Jones is too.

[roach]

Originally Posted by 8wid

I'm thinking again if they're was a Star Wars reboot, is there really any point in having the kind of character that Luke is? In terms of the young, naive farm boy who longs for escape from his isolated existence? If Ben was the only one that lived on Tatooine and had hidden there to escape the purges of the Empire the story might have been stronger from his point of view. Leia does not need to be a long lost twin sister, there was no point to it before except to add more tension in the need to defeat Darth Vader. What if she was just a normal hot and sexy princess with her role in the Imperial Senate still? There might be a Chewbacca style co-pilot, but Ben would fill up the role of Han Solo mostly too. It seems much more interesting to me that seeing Ben return to the Galactic stage to redeem his fallen apprentice instead of scapegoating his son into doing it makes the story stronger. Star Wars does not have to be a coming of age story.

It would feel more like a strong central male role like Indiana Jones is too.

wait you want to reboot Star Wars and cut out both Han and Luke

[8wid]

^Yes, merge their character traits and make Ben the main character/protagonist with the story told from his point of view instead. It would make for a more dogmatic story.

[henzINNIT]

Originally Posted by 8wid

^Yes, merge their character traits and make Ben the main character/protagonist with the story told from his point of view instead. It would make for a more dogmatic story.

I wouldn't exactly love a story of a naive rogue wizard flying around the galaxy with no-one to talk to.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by 8wid

^Yes, merge their character traits and make Ben the main character/protagonist with the story told from his point of view instead. It would make for a more dogmatic story.

There is only one truth about this entire Star Wars thing. Even as Lucas made the prequels and the vast majority of the EU insults what has come before, Luke Skywalker is everything good and right about SW. There is a reason why the story didn't click until he existed. To simply get rid of the heart of the entire story is nonsensical.

Vader's redemption, the balance of the Force, the victory of the Rebel Alliance and the return of the Jedi all hinge on Luke and the man he is. Change him in anyway and it doesn't work.


----------------------------

On a similar note, can someone explain to me why exactly the likes of Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter are seemingly pushed aside, even by fans of their series? No two characters in either series are more fully realized, likable, genuine, or tragic. But all you ever get is how cool Han or Bobo is, about how Snape is so misunderstood.

All I ever read about how Luke is how he is too whining and that he is bland. Do people actually watch these films? It is just false. He is whiny for about 10 minutes in the first film. You see signs of it in Empire, but it ties directly into his frustration in his training. He certainly gets it beat out of him by the end of Empire.

His arc is... everything. Luke is the only one who is truly able to find some kind of truth in the will of the Force. By the end of ROTJ he surpasses even Yoda in his knowledge of the Force, becoming the greatest of all Jedi and the thing is, he earns it. The forging of Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight is what SW is all about. It is why there is the OT and then everything else.

[Hunter Rider]

^^^ I can't be bothered to debate the rest of that but I think for many they just find Luke bland. I've always liked the character but he's down on my list of top 10 favourite characters no matter how much of an arc he has.

@Optimus, that Soundrel book looks gret, wht's the relese dte?

Originally Posted by craigdbfan

Sideshow/Hot Toys never ceases to amaze me with their level of detail for their figurines.

Yeah, their work is top class.

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

I love all 6 Star Wars movies. In fact, although I call ANH "my favorite movie of all time", I really don't think it's fair to judge regular movies vs SW movies.

The most flawed of the 6 is AOTC, mostly because the scenes with Padme's family were left out. But the battle arena in the end is godly.

I agree with that.

Disagree but I'm curious as to what the scenes with Padme's family were going to be?

[Kurosawa]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

There is only one truth about this entire Star Wars thing. Even as Lucas made the prequels and the vast majority of the EU insults what has come before, Luke Skywalker is everything good and right about SW. There is a reason why the story didn't click until he existed. To simply get rid of the heart of the entire story is nonsensical.

Vader's redemption, the balance of the Force, the victory of the Rebel Alliance and the return of the Jedi all hinge on Luke and the man he is. Change him in anyway and it doesn't work.


----------------------------

On a similar note, can someone explain to me why exactly the likes of Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter are seemingly pushed aside, even by fans of their series? No two characters in either series are more fully realized, likable, genuine, or tragic. But all you ever get is how cool Han or Bobo is, about how Snape is so misunderstood.

All I ever read about how Luke is how he is too whining and that he is bland. Do people actually watch these films? It is just false. He is whiny for about 10 minutes in the first film. You see signs of it in Empire, but it ties directly into his frustration in his training. He certainly gets it beat out of him by the end of Empire.

His arc is... everything. Luke is the only one who is truly able to find some kind of truth in the will of the Force. By the end of ROTJ he surpasses even Yoda in his knowledge of the Force, becoming the greatest of all Jedi and the thing is, he earns it. The forging of Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight is what SW is all about. It is why there is the OT and then everything else.

I like the prequels, but even in them, to me the main character is Luke...because every mistake Anakin makes is reflected in a better choice that Luke made later on. Luke is along with Superman and King Arthur, my favorite hero in all of fiction. I like my good guys to be good guys, and Luke is one of the best.

I think people finding characters like Luke and Superman and Harry Potter bland just reflects a loss of morality in modern society. Heroes should be heroic and pure. Even Harry could be more pure than he is.

[The Caped Knight]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

There is only one truth about this entire Star Wars thing. Even as Lucas made the prequels and the vast majority of the EU insults what has come before, Luke Skywalker is everything good and right about SW. There is a reason why the story didn't click until he existed. To simply get rid of the heart of the entire story is nonsensical.

Vader's redemption, the balance of the Force, the victory of the Rebel Alliance and the return of the Jedi all hinge on Luke and the man he is. Change him in anyway and it doesn't work.


----------------------------

On a similar note, can someone explain to me why exactly the likes of Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter are seemingly pushed aside, even by fans of their series? No two characters in either series are more fully realized, likable, genuine, or tragic. But all you ever get is how cool Han or Bobo is, about how Snape is so misunderstood.

All I ever read about how Luke is how he is too whining and that he is bland. Do people actually watch these films? It is just false. He is whiny for about 10 minutes in the first film. You see signs of it in Empire, but it ties directly into his frustration in his training. He certainly gets it beat out of him by the end of Empire.

His arc is... everything. Luke is the only one who is truly able to find some kind of truth in the will of the Force. By the end of ROTJ he surpasses even Yoda in his knowledge of the Force, becoming the greatest of all Jedi and the thing is, he earns it. The forging of Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight is what SW is all about. It is why there is the OT and then everything else.

Ultra WORD !!!!

http://www.dougcowan.net/new_artwork.html
Luke is my favorite character in the Star Wars universe.

[OptimusPrime114]

Are you outta your mind?!

Just because you don't like the prequels, doesn't mean you should wish for a reboot.

[DarthSkywalker]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Padme scenes are on the DVD as extras. I am sure you could find them on YT but I am not sure whether I am allowed to link to them.

Luke's character doesn't just have an arc. His arc is SW, no matter how much recon Lucas does to try and make it Anakin's story. Also, never understood what is exactly "bland" about him.

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

I love all 6 Star Wars movies. In fact, although I call ANH "my favorite movie of all time", I really don't think it's fair to judge regular movies vs SW movies.

The most flawed of the 6 is AOTC, mostly because the scenes with Padme's family were left out. But the battle arena in the end is godly.

I am curious about why you hold the arena scene in such high regard. It is probably my least favorite action scene in AOTC. I really like Obi-Wan v. Jango, Yoda v. Dooku and the droid factory scene. The Jedi aren't exactly impressive in combat, a lot of obvious green screen fighting and there is just a lot of stupid like how Jango meets his end.

Still don't understand why Obi-Wan's duel with Dooku was chopped all to bits and in such a crude way. It is clear there is a chunk missing and the editing just makes it even more apparent.

[Hunter Rider]

The arc is Vader's, Luke is part of that arc, as is Leia, it was always Vader's. As for why you don't see him as bland? I dunno, I mean you mentioned Harry Potter as well, I never found anything to connect with or live vicariously through with that character, but many loved it, horses for courses and all that...


Thanks for the Padme info.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

The arc is Vader's, Luke is part of that arc, as is Leia, it was always Vader's. As for why you don't see him as bland? I dunno, I mean you mentioned Harry Potter as well, I never found anything to connect with or live vicariously through with that character, but many loved it, horses for courses and all that...


Thanks for the Padme info.

How is that even possible when Vader = Anakin Skywalker wasn't even a concept until late into the making of Empire?

It wasn't Vader's arc until he decided to make the prequels and decided he was going to fudge around with the story, like making Obi-Wan a complete lying jerk in the OT. Anakin Skywalker was basically Kol Skywalker from Star Wars Legacy.

Is it not completely obvious when the Strongest Force User to ever lived stood next to his own daughter and had no idea she was a) his daughter and b) strong in the Force?

I mean come on, this is the guy who won't even let Han shoot first anymore. Of course it being "Vader's story" is a complete and utter recon.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

How is that even possible when Vader = Anakin Skywalker wasn't even a concept until late into the making of Empire?

It wasn't Vader's arc until he decided to make the prequels and decided he was going to fudge around with the story. Anakin Skywalker was basically Kol Skywalker from Star Wars Legacy.

Is it not completely obvious when the Strongest Force User to ever lived stood next to his own daughter and had no idea she was a) his daughter and b) strong in the Force?

I mean come on, this is the guy who won't even let Han shoot first anymore. Of course it being "Vader's story" is a complete and utter recon.

From the start it is made clear that Vader is the key to the Empire, it began with him as Obi Wan explains and it ended with him turning back. Luke is the tool used to turn him back with guidance from Obi Wan and Yoda, but without him there is no happy ending, the arc was always about Vader.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

From the start it is made clear that Vader is the key to the Empire, it began with him as Obi Wan explains and it ended with him turning back. Luke is the tool used to turn him back with guidance from Obi Wan and Yoda, but without him there is no happy ending, the arc was always about Vader.

First let me just say, that none of that is apparent in Star Wars, mainly because none of it ever even existed until Empire was nearly finished. In SW Vader is basically the Sheriff of Nottingham. I am not exactly sure how you can say it was made clear, especially when Vader was clearly under Tarkin. That is why there is a clear discontent in the actions of some and why no matter how hard he tried, Lucas could not truly match up what happened at the end of ROTS with the man Vader is in Star Wars.

Vader being the one to "bring balance to the Force" is prequel talk. It basically didn't exist as an idea until Lucas decided he was going to do prequels instead of the preferred idea from the brain trust of Luke traveling the galaxy as the SW equivalent of "The Man with No Name".

Now, on to the stuff I love.

The key to the end of the Empire, was the end of the Emperor, the banishment of the Darkside. The only way to bring the galaxy back into flux was the eternal struggle of the light v. the dark. Luke however, so young and barely learned in the ways of the Force could never stop him. Yoda showed some understanding and in the end left Luke to decide what he must do. Obi-Wan almost doomed the galaxy by trying every which way he could to get Luke to kill his pappy.

It is Luke, who through his conviction brings about the end of the Empire, the redemption of his father, and the return of the Jedi. Luke brings balance. It is Luke who defies the words of both his mentor and his father to find the truth of what must be done, even if it cost him his life.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

First let me just say, that none of that is apparent in Star Wars, mainly because none of it ever even existed until Empire was nearly finished. In SW Vader is basically the Sheriff of Nottingham. I am not exactly sure how you can say it was made clear, especially when Vader was clearly under Tarkin. That is why there is a clear discontent in the actions of some and why no matter how hard he tried, Lucas could not truly match up what happened at the end of ROTS with the man Vader is in Star Wars.

Vader being the one to "bring balance to the Force" is prequel talk. It basically didn't exist as an idea until Lucas decided he was going to do prequels instead of the preferred idea from the brain trust of Luke traveling the galaxy as the SW equivalent of "The Man with No Name".

Now, on to the stuff I love.

The key to the end of the Empire, was the end of the Emperor, the banishment of the Darkside. The only way to bring the galaxy back into flux was the eternal struggle of the light v. the dark. Luke however, so young and barely learned in the ways of the Force could never stop him. Yoda showed some understanding and in the end left Luke to decide what he must do. Obi-Wan almost doomed the galaxy by trying every which way he could to get Luke to kill his pappy.

It is Luke, who through his conviction brings about the end of the Empire, the redemption of his father, and the return of the Jedi. Luke brings balance. It is Luke who defies the words of both his mentor and his father to find the truth of what must be done, even if it cost him his life.

A story changes it's shape as you write it, Luke's is the heroes journey but the pivotal character is still Vader, Obi Wan makes it clear to Luke in ANH that he was the one that joined with The Emperor to destroy the Jedi when he was turned, Luke turns him back across two movies, Vader is the integral element to both trilogies, Luke and Palpatine are the faciliatators.

[ALP]

So did any of you guys see Phantom Menace in 3D?

[CConn]

The balls and the penis?

Really?

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by CConn

The balls and the penis?

Really?

I suppose I could have went for bullets and the gun....

[Twitch]

blah

[mara]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

I suppose I could have went for bullets and the gun....

No! That was perfect. lol

[Spider-Who?]

You can't have one without the oooooooooother.

[CConn]

Eugene the Unich would beg to differ.

[roach]

I like Luke

[Hunter Rider]

I wish I'd just said that lol.