Atheism: Love it or Leave it? - Part 4

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[Dr.]

Originally Posted by SpaceWay2009

A friend of my friend actually got de-baptized. First time I heard about that.

There are two kinds. One is formal – where, as a non-believer, you request that your name be removed from the church’s baptismal registry. (The non-believer doesn’t want their name included in the overall statistics that the church might be inclined to cite.)

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...137592823.html

The second is much more informal; with a “certificate” and “ceremony,” you renounce your former faith in friendly/party atmosphere.

[Venomfan]

that picture is hilarious

always nice to hear stories like these to see that we're not all enemies of eachother
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/...stian-charity/

and an unexpected update to that story

http://now.msn.com/now/0405-atheist-...an.aspx#scptm2

[abbller]

Originally Posted by Dr.

There are two kinds. One is formal – where, as a non-believer, you request that your name be removed from the church’s baptismal registry. (The non-believer doesn’t want their name included in the overall statistics that the church might be inclined to cite.)

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...137592823.html

The second is much more informal; with a “certificate” and “ceremony,” you renounce your former faith in friendly/party atmosphere.

thanks for sharing these .

[DBryan]

Apparently, that is the same Patrick Greene that was a subject of discussion in an episode of the Atheist Experience called 'Foolish Atheists'.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Considering that all it took to convert him was donations, it seems he really didn't have good reasons for being an atheist in the first place.

[Venomfan]

Originally Posted by DBryan

Apparently, that is the same Patrick Greene that was a subject of discussion in an episode of the Atheist Experience called 'Foolish Atheists'.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Considering that all it took to convert him was donations, it seems he really didn't have good reasons for being an atheist in the first place.

wow he is hard to listen to. how did you find that?

[DBryan]

I saw Matt Dillahunty tweet about it then I went to youtube to find it.

[DBryan]

And wow, sheesh, that really was horrible to listen to. What an idiot.

[Bat-Mite]

My sympathies go out to that church. They deserve to be applauded for their act of kindness, and although it may seem that Mr. Greene's conversion would be a good thing for them, I don't think that things will turn out that way. I suspect that Mr. Greene will always be a fanatic, no matter what he believes or doesn't believe, and will end up embarrassing them some day. His conversion is good for the atheists, as we are rid of any association with him, but bad for the Christians.

Just look at one of the comments he made in that article before his conversion:

"My wife and I had never had a Christian do anything nice for us," said Patrick Greene. "Just the opposite."

So we have a senior citizen who lives in Texas and has NEVER in his LIFE had a single Christian do something nice for him? And his wife is in the same boat? Either these two live in some of the most peculiar circumstances imaginable, or he was flat out lying... which really only insults the people who were offering to help him by defaming other followers of their faith. I know there are a lot of Christian d-bags around, especially in this state... but I also know that there have been plenty of people here who have gone out of their way to help me when I needed it, and more likely than not, the far majority of them were Christian.

[Nevincer]

Has anyone seen this video?

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

The dislike bar speaks for itself.

[enterthemadness]

Originally Posted by Darkhunt

Has anyone seen this video?

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

The dislike bar speaks for itself.

Seen most of it. His jacked up bottom teeth are distracting.

[Lunar_Wolf]

I'm pretty much done with religion.

The more I read, think and analyze religion as a whole, the more it seems like utter nonsense to me.

[EML420]

Originally Posted by Lunar_Wolf

I'm pretty much done with religion.

The more I read, think and analyze religion as a whole, the more it seems like utter nonsense to me.

Same when I was christan the more I tried to belive the stuff and dive into the bible my self the more I was unsure about all of it.
I dont think I was ever a serious when I was christian I only belived out of fear of hell lol.

[enterthemadness]

Originally Posted by EML420

Same when I was christan the more I tried to belive the stuff and dive into the bible my self the more I was unsure about all of it.
I dont think I was ever a serious when I was christian I only belived out of fear of hell lol.

Whenever I tried as a Christian, after a while I lost interest. Just not for me. No connection.

[SpaceWay2009]

People aren't religious like they used to be.

[DBryan]

I'm about 12 minutes into this Ray Comfort/Atheist Experience debate video and wow! It's painful. Ray's arguments comprise of fallacies ontop of nonsensical grammatical nightmares.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

I'm surprised Matt didn't bring up that you can't give an example of nothing, in order to demonstrate that something can or cannot come from it. I think maybe it was Tracie who raised that point in a different video.

I don't understand why people like Ray are kind of 'heroes' in the apologetics movement. Anyone with a basic understanding of logic can see these arguments for what they are.

EDIT - About 20 minutes in, they let him get away with too much nonsense. It should be a simple thing to explain that the very reason that scientific knowledge changes when there is new information is the strength of science. It is in part because science does not state absolutes that science is the best and most honest method of describing reality and finding truth.

They're also missing a lot of opportunities to tell Ray that the things he's asserting as evidence of design - birds, trees, flowers, seasons - can all be explained by natural processes.

[Lighthouse]

EDIT: Nevermind, photobucket for some reason is posting it as tiny.

[Asteroid-Man]

I honestly don't care what someone's belief is, but when they start saying **** like "You're wrong. THIS IS MY BELIEF!!!" then I want to slap you in the face. Whether you're preaching a monotheistic religion to me or you're trying to prove that God doesn't exist.

Just stfu and keep your beliefs to yourself unless I ask.

[enterthemadness]

So, what do you all think of Zeus? Like was he real? I personally think he is real and rules Florida...explains all the Lightning Strikes and Thunder Storms. heh...

[Speedball]

Originally Posted by enterthemadness

So, what do you all think of Zeus? Like was he real? I personally think he is real and rules Florida...explains all the Lightning Strikes and Thunder Storms. heh...

He's totally real. He's my father...

[Anubis]

He's my weed guy.

[8wid]

Zeus is real and he's my father too, just like my brother who you know as Alexander the Great he came in the form of a snake, slept with my mother and conceived me.



Billy Graham’s daughter: ‘I would not vote for an atheist’

[Thundercrack85]

Originally Posted by 8wid

Zeus is real and he's my father too, just like my brother who you know as Alexander the Great he came in the form of a snake, slept with my mother and conceived me.



Billy Graham’s daughter: ‘I would not vote for an atheist’

Isn't she just saying what so many are thinking?

I generally prefer it when people make their prejudice plain.

[santorumrick859]

Any person who has strong sentiments against the way things are done in this country has probably heard "love it or leave it" at some point. What is the logic of this argument?
First of all, we must apply this idea to common life and the problems that we encounter daily. Suppose I go into a fast food restaurant, and the place is packed. Kids are running around screaming, trash cans are overflowing, and the line seems endless. In this situation, the appropriate response might be to leave and go to another establishment.
This is obviously an easy choice that takes no major effort. However, there are other alternatives. You could complain to a manager about the restaurant’s environment and express your inability to return until conditions have changed. It is likely that your complaint will not do much, but it could. This second alternative is obviously a choice other than leaving. The second alternative promises some change (profit/loss analysis of private business could also change things by leaving; this is much different from how government would react to a citizen leaving). The fact that the second alternative gives other options shows that you don’t have to leave. The fast food restaurant has a capability to change, and in its own interest it should.
The above situation is a small inconvenience. Let’s take it up a notch. Suppose a fraternity buys the house next to me. The noise level is horrendous, and I can’t sleep at night. According to the "love it or leave it" people, I should sell my house and move. Why not choose other avenues and alternatives like attempting to negotiate with the owners, call the police, or try to get new noise regulations in your neighborhood? Because the local government does not have adequate noise regulations, you should accordingly leave the entire city instead of attempting to change the law.
Our founding fathers were not "love it or leave it" people. Thomas Jefferson did not tell everyone in the colonies with the Declaration of Independence to leave the oppressive tax regime of England and move to the unsettled and ungoverned far west. In fact, Thomas Jefferson went one step further by saying in the declaration:

"...Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Jefferson did not simply wish you to stay and change the laws of your government. If necessary, the people should "abolish it, and [to] institute new Government." I can express this idea in a similar sentence. The government should respect the wishes of its people or leave.
Another argument made by "love it or leave it" people is that this country is better than other countries and those against the current regime should stop complaining. I agree. The US is one of the best countries in the world. However, being the best does not justify all actions.
Suppose that if you live in Mexico a citizen is stabbed five times and in the US you are only beaten. Surely, any reasonable person would agree that the US is better than Mexico. Being better does not justify violence and coercion toward citizens. Actions of both countries are inappropriate even though Mexico’s are more violent.
Isn’t there a separation of loving your country without loving the government? I can love New Orleans without loving all rules, taxes, and regulations involved. Another example is parents. Most of us love our parents, but we didn’t enjoy being punished as kids. Therefore, any kid who does not like their parents’ rules should become a street rat according to "love it or leave it." The child loves his parent despite the rules. Together, the kids and parents may negotiate new rules.
This philosophy is utterly incompatible with real life. "Love it or leave it" is best left to those who cannot defend justifications of state power and laws through logical argumentation.