Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

[Drz]

USA Today article:

Avengers vs. X-Men is Marvel's major event series next year, running 12 biweekly issues and featuring five of the industry's most influential writers: Brian Michael Bendis, Jason Aaron, Ed Brubaker, Jonathan Hickman and Matt Fraction.
"It's one of those legendary ideas: What if the Avengers fought the X-Men? It doesn't get much easier to describe than that," Brubaker says.


Kicking off in a special "zero issue" prologue in March written by Bendis and Aaron, Avengers vs. X-Men begins the next month with an extinction-level event barreling its way toward Earth, namely the cosmic entity of death and rebirth known as the Phoenix Force. It's looking for a new host who will possess all of its power, which may or may not be the mutant teenager Hope Summers.
Cyclops, Wolverine, Magneto and the other X-Men want to protect her and prepare her if she's to be the new Phoenix. Captain America, Iron Man, Spider-Man and their fellow Avengers want her handed over to them so they can figure out what to do with her and keep the world safe from a potentially fiery fate.
Suffice it to say, tensions — and fisticuffs — arise.
"You've got two populations whose motivations are simple and understandable and defensible," says Axel Alonso, Marvel's editor in chief. "That's part of the beauty of this. You're seeing a story that evolves out of 'What would you do?' "
Of Marvel's recent annual events, Fraction says this is the one that will most appeal to hardcore comics fans as well as mainstream pop-culture mavens who've seen all four X-Men movies and the films featuring Thor, Captain America and Iron Man that have been leading up to the release of The Avengers in May.
"They've become two huge franchises that the average Joe on the street knows just from movies and cartoons and everything else," Aaron adds.
But you won't see Avengers vs. X-Men on a movie poster anytime soon, Bendis promises. "If you want to see it, come look what comics does because there are things we do better than anybody. And this is one of them."

Bi-Weekly with the top names? You bet it's going to be 3.99$ per issue lol. :oldrazz:

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by JewishHobbit

Wolverine's always had an issue with Hope though. I remember somewhere he was talking to her about how people like her always go nuts and it always falls to people like him to take her out. It was in regards to why he always kept distant from her and why he always had an attitude about her. He was trying not to get attached.

So his siding with Cap at the beginning of this is somewhat reasonable, as he's expected something like this with Hope since she first showed up. He's likely assuming the worse.

yeah it was UXM 539, also written by Gillen. Logan alluded to the fact that he'd have to kill her and he'd make it quick and Hope pretty much told him that if and when that happens to make sure he actually does it. I wonder if that was foreshadowing

Another thing. Everyone is assuming that the PF is coming for Hope. Granted thats a very logical conclusion and makes sense but what if she isnt its target? What if its looking for a different host, who's more powerful like lets say Scarlet Witch? The X-men are banding together to protect Hope and the Avengers are fighting to get to her, but it would be a twist if its all for nothing and its Wanda whom they should be looking at (which no one seems to be). She's supposed to be playing an important role in this and built up as the most important Avengers figure (like Hope has been for th X-men) Why else make her one half of the featured story in #0? I think she might be ignored in this first act bc they plan on surprising us with her taking on a major role with the PF in the latter acts

[Mulholland '49]

Originally Posted by Havok83

yeah it was UXM 539, also written by Gillen. Logan alluded to the fact that he'd have to kill her and he'd make it quick and Hope pretty much told him that if and when that happens to make sure he actually does it. I wonder if that was foreshadowing

Another thing. Everyone is assuming that the PF is coming for Hope. Granted thats a very logical conclusion and makes sense but what if she isnt its target? What if its looking for a different host, who's more powerful like lets say Scarlet Witch? The X-men are banding together to protect Hope and the Avengers are fighting to get to her, but it would be a twist if its all for nothing and its Wanda whom they should be looking at (which no one seems to be). She's supposed to be playing an important role in this and built up as the most important Avengers figure (like Hope has been for th X-men) Why else make her one half of the featured story in #0? I think she might be ignored in this first act bc they plan on surprising us with her taking on a major role with the PF in the latter acts

I hope you didn't just ruin a twist

[Scourge2099]

Cyclops will end up leaving the X-Men and moving up to Alaska to become a fisherman and meet up with a clone of Hope created by Mr Sinister. After the Avengers find the real Hope in a cocoon , Cyclops will leave the clone Hope with their son.

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

Wolverine went in knowing he'd have to fight Cyclops. He understands there's no reasoning with Scott when it comes to Hope or his quest to save mutantkind. He actually says as much in New Avengers this week. Ms. Marvel, I think, says that Cap'll make Scott see reason when the Avengers are waiting on the Helicarrier, but Wolverine straight-up says, "No, he won't." Presumably, Wolverine is there because he believes that the Avengers' solution of at least trying to keep Hope and the Phoenix apart is the best of the available options. Sure, the other X-Men might still be his friends, but no one's ever accused Wolverine of letting sentimentality get in the way of what he thinks needs to be done.

Actually, Ms. Marvel told Cap that Cyclops was going to blast him out of Utopia.

[Manic]

I haven't been keeping up with this event at all. Is this all going down because the Avengers are afraid Hope will kill everyone if she becomes the Phoenix? Really? I thought Jean only became a genocidal maniac as the Phoenix because a certain someone (Cyclops' current girlfriend, if I remember correctly) accidentally drove her ridiculously powerful ass insane, and no other host of the Phoenix (Rachel Summers, the Stepfords, that week in space when Professor X had it) has ever come close to doing anything that dangerous.

But whatever. It's another "superhero-vs-superhero over what they should honestly be able to settle after a heavy debate" event. Sarcastic-yay!

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by Manic

I haven't been keeping up with this event at all. Is this all going down because the Avengers are afraid Hope will kill everyone if she becomes the Phoenix? Really? I thought Jean only became a genocidal maniac as the Phoenix because a certain someone (Cyclops' current girlfriend, if I remember correctly) accidentally drove her ridiculously powerful ass insane, and no other host of the Phoenix (Rachel Summers, the Stepfords, that week in space when Professor X had it) has ever come close to doing anything that dangerous.

But whatever. It's another "superhero-vs-superhero over what they should honestly be able to settle after a heavy debate" event. Sarcastic-yay!

Unfortunately there are so many inaccuracies and false truths being thrown around which has led to the fighting. Wolverine could have cleared things up but he didnt and now Tony and Cap are under the assumption that the Phoenix is nothing but a parasitic force that kills and destroys. Thats ignoring all the good its done and how its saved earth, mutantkind and humanity, many times. But nope, its destructive and evil and it must be stopped.

In the first issue they went to the Jean Grey school to talk to Wolverine, bc he's the "expert" on the PF, yet it makes no sense why he wouldnt direct them to Rachel (who's also at the school) as she's the one person on earth that has the most experience with the thing

[Manic]

Is it one of those stories that'd have me yelling at the pages, "WHY DON'T YOU JUST TELL SOMEONE [BLANK]?!" Because I nearly gave myself a stroke doing that during Messiah Complex. Cable didn't feel the need to explain to anyone what he was doing, Bishop never told anyone why the baby (Hope) was bad, Cyclops didn't seek answers from anyone before launching a hit-squad, Charles was privy to most of the info needed to end the in-fighting in the X-Men but didn't tell anyone, etc.

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by Manic

Is it one of those stories that'd have me yelling at the pages, "WHY DON'T YOU JUST TELL SOMEONE [BLANK]?!" Because I nearly gave myself a stroke doing that during Messiah Complex. Cable didn't feel the need to explain to anyone what he was doing, Bishop never told anyone why the baby (Hope) was bad, Cyclops didn't seek answers from anyone before launching a hit-squad, Charles was privy to most of the info needed to end the in-fighting in the X-Men but didn't tell anyone, etc.

Maybe. There are 3 X-men on the team who could have actually told Cap more about the PF when he asked if anyone on the team knows what it is. Storm literally up and left when she heard that mentioned; Beast kept quiet, and well Wolverine misled them. Cap and Cyclops should have talked about things but instead Cap came onto Utopia demanding Hope and Scott blasted him without finding out exactly why he wanted her. Already a bit of miscommunication going on and I imagine it will get worse especially since when we last left off the Avengers are jumping out of a SHIELD hellcarrier about to attack the rest of the X-men

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Havok83

Maybe. There are 3 X-men on the team who could have actually told Cap more about the PF when he asked if anyone on the team knows what it is. Storm literally up and left when she heard that mentioned; Beast kept quiet, and well Wolverine misled them. Cap and Cyclops should have talked about things but instead Cap came onto Utopia demanding Hope and Scott blasted him without finding out exactly why he wanted her. Already a bit of miscommunication going on and I imagine it will get worse especially since when we last left off the Avengers are jumping out of a SHIELD hellcarrier about to attack the rest of the X-men

What exactly could Cap have said that would have changed Clop's mind??

A potential "world threat" didn't even make him flinch.

Wolverine probably already told Cap that Clops was gonna be bull-headed. That's why we have the helicarrier loaded for bear.

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by Shazam

What exactly could Cap have said that would have changed Clop's mind??

A potential "world threat" didn't even make him flinch.

Wolverine probably already told Cap that Clops was gonna be bull-headed. That's why we have the helicarrier loaded for bear.

Oh nothing. Im just talking about things from a logical rational angle. For these characters however, fighting was inevitable. It is afterall called Avengers vs X-men, not Avengers sit down and discuss current events over coffee with the X-men

[BillPardy]

Maybe its not just the fact that Hope is getting the phoenix force, but the fact that shes predicted to mess up the earth. Before that idea was slightly unfounded, but with the force, she could very well destroy the world.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Havok83

Oh nothing. Im just talking about things from a logical rational angle. For these characters however, fighting was inevitable. It is afterall called Avengers vs X-men, not Avengers sit down and discuss current events over coffee with the X-men

PHOENIX FORCE....WORLD DESTRUCTION.....Let's get Hope off-planet? That's not logical??

And the fact that Clops knows "first-hand" the force's destructive nature and still did not care, shows that he's the one not playin' with a full deck.

Even Namor was trying to tell him back off this crazy idea that he can control the Phoenix.

So again....how do you reason with a guy who's already thinking crazy??

[slim_summers]

Originally Posted by Havok83

It is afterall called Avengers vs X-men, not Avengers sit down and discuss current events over coffee with the X-men

I would definitely buy that comic.

[THANOSRULES]

Unfortunately, I don't see much problem with the characterization. Cap has never cared for the X-men and they have fought many times.

It should be even worse now that the X-men clearly don't have the same vision or life view about their role in the world as they did in the 1960s.

If i were Cap, I would never trust nor take any chances with a team/organization that has magneto as a member/mentor..let alone several members who have been "evil/criminals" at one point...and we're talking a much higher level than Hawkeye or Wonder Man here.

[TheCorpulent1]

Originally Posted by Havok83

Unfortunately there are so many inaccuracies and false truths being thrown around which has led to the fighting. Wolverine could have cleared things up but he didnt and now Tony and Cap are under the assumption that the Phoenix is nothing but a parasitic force that kills and destroys. Thats ignoring all the good its done and how its saved earth, mutantkind and humanity, many times. But nope, its destructive and evil and it must be stopped.

In the first issue they went to the Jean Grey school to talk to Wolverine, bc he's the "expert" on the PF, yet it makes no sense why he wouldnt direct them to Rachel (who's also at the school) as she's the one person on earth that has the most experience with the thing

Well, Wolverine not clearing it up kind of makes sense according to his personality, though. He's a killer. His solution to most problems is to not take any chances and just kill whatever may potentially be a threat. When Jean went Dark Phoenix, he was all gung-ho to kill her. Someone just posted a scene where he told Hope he's basically waiting for her to go bad so he can kill her too. If someone asked him about the potential threat level of the Phoenix, his response would logically be, "Don't take any chances, let's kill the host so it can't manifest in the first place." Although, granted, Cap's not a killer, so his solution is to just isolate Hope from the Phoenix to buy time.

[Manic]

Where the flying F is Rachel to tell these a-holes that she was a host of the Phoenix literally the entire time she was in Excalibur?

[roach]

Originally Posted by Manic

Where the flying F is Rachel to tell these a-holes that she was a host of the Phoenix literally the entire time she was in Excalibur?

I don't think Bendis would listen to her

[TheCorpulent1]

He'd just retcon it so she only held some small, benign part of the Phoenix, not the true Phoenix Force in all its glory.

[Franklin Richards]

Well since The Beyonder gave her the power way back when, perhaps Rachael is now an Inhuman.

[roach]

Bendis: There is no Rachel

[TheCorpulent1]

Slott: There totally is a Rachel, though.

*A short time later, Slott's comic is canceled.*

[Manic]

I love Slott's total "F you and your disregard for continuity!" attitude. Someone writing Ms. Marvel made Nextwave canon, and Slott made a comic that said Nextwave were from another universe.

[CaptainStacy]

Originally Posted by Manic

I love Slott's total "F you and your disregard for continuity!" attitude. Someone writing Ms. Marvel made Nextwave canon, and Slott made a comic that said Nextwave were from another universe.

And Greg Pak, not letting the Hulk be turned into a mass murderer.

Thank you Messrs Pak and Slott!