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Old 05-06-2012, 02:36 PM   #1
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:36 PM   #2
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Default What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

Ok, it does not need to be negative, can be some thing people would of liked to have seen, or a nit pick,
I watched it in 2d, but i heard people didn't really like the 3d
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
i personally loved the movie myself, but i couldn't get over how goofy cap looked at times with his helmet, or cowlmet, it just wasn't sleek enough. i was happier with the scenes when he wasn't wearing it, the wig looked better IMO, lol.
And i didn't understand fully the relationship between Hawkeye and black widow, which more time was given to that, and a better explanation to hawkeye no longer being possessed, but that could be down to timing, the movies running length was fine, any more might of been over kill

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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He even says to Banner that all of this seemed familiar to him. The guy is at home in the role of an active soldier. He doesn't think in terms of how technologically advanced everything is, only that, those are the bad guys, and I have my orders.

They don't solve his issues with modern times, he puts them aside to focus on the mission at hand. I imagine his sequel will deal with how they keep coming back to haunt him. Kind of like how Wolverine is able to put aside his lack of memory to focus on what he needs to do.
Yeah, it's easier to forget about past when your memopry is lost. But still, the man was deeply in love and now after the first scene he just put all that behind rather quickly. Again, I get when you have 6 superheroes or so and have to deliver as much action as possible, you don't have time for everythiung, but I'm sure he would have had much more to do about it in a CA2 movie.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Yeah, it's easier to forget about past when your memopry is lost. But still, the man was deeply in love and now after the first scene he just put all that behind rather quickly. Again, I get when you have 6 superheroes or so and have to deliver as much action as possible, you don't have time for everythiung, but I'm sure he would have had much more to do about it in a CA2 movie.
I think posters like yourself are forgetting they're saving some of that material for the solo films. We got the glimpse of how he felt about Peggy when he's in the middle of punching the punching bag and he's having flash backs. That's more than enough for this film.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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I think posters like yourself are forgetting they're saving some of that material for the solo films. We got the glimpse of how he felt about Peggy when he's in the middle of punching the punching bag and he's having flash backs. That's more than enough for this film.

Agreed. Not to mention there's probably some deleted scenes focusing on this.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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He is. When he has the gauntlet, he doesn't need strength.

There are stronger characters than Hulk. Don't fall for it.
There are characters who are more powerful than the Hulk. Cosmic powered, God-like beings. But when it comes to pure brute force the Hulk is it. Marvel goes out of its way to present this. As discussed some pages back, sure, writers alter eveyone's power levels when it suits them. But Thanos has never been shown to have the Hulk's level of pure stength. Maybe Thor's but not the Hulk.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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There are characters who are more powerful than the Hulk. Cosmic powered, God-like beings. But when it comes to pure brute force the Hulk is it. Marvel goes out of its way to present this. As discussed some pages back, sure, writers alter eveyone's power levels when it suits them. But Thanos has never been shown to have the Hulk's level of pure stength. Maybe Thor's but not the Hulk.
He has, on numerous occasions. When was the last time Hulk blew up a planet just from the aftershocks of his punches? Thanos has literally pimp slapped Hulk aside before. Thanos has no sold a Warrior Madness and Power Gem wielding Thor (which is Thor about 1000x stronger than he usually is). Thanos treats Silver Surfer like an ant regularly. Thanos has put Galactus on his ass. All of this with no weapons or prep time or artefacts.

His just on another level up than Hulk. Thanos is what would happen if you took Reed Richards and Dr Dooms brains, Dr Strange's magical mastery and Green Scar Hulk's pure strength, combined them together and amped them up a bit.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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He has, on numerous occasions. When was the last time Hulk blew up a planet just from the aftershocks of his punches? Thanos has literally pimp slapped Hulk aside before. Thanos has no sold a Warrior Madness and Power Gem wielding Thor (which is Thor about 1000x stronger than he usually is). Thanos treats Silver Surfer like an ant regularly. Thanos has put Galactus on his ass. All of this with no weapons or prep time or artefacts.

His just on another level up than Hulk. Thanos is what would happen if you took Reed Richards and Dr Dooms brains, Dr Strange's magical mastery and Green Scar Hulk's pure strength, combined them together and amped them up a bit.
So how has he been beaten then? I never really followed Thanos, I just saw him own Galatcus once.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:56 PM   #9
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So how has he been beaten then? I never really followed Thanos, I just saw him own Galatcus once.
Usually his own arrogance, like in Infinity Gauntlet. Or he realises the errors of his ways and gives up like in The End.

Thanos has had moments of altruism, surprisingly. But only when it suits his needs.

To put the Galactus thing in context though, after Thanos put the Big G on his ass, he came back and fried Thanos to within an inch of his life. Noting that he had to put some effort in whilst doing it.

But for a being like Galactus, who can let off blasts that destroy multiple solar systems, it's impressive that Thanos even survived really.

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Old 05-06-2012, 03:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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He has, on numerous occasions. When was the last time Hulk blew up a planet just from the aftershocks of his punches? Thanos has literally pimp slapped Hulk aside before. Thanos has no sold a Warrior Madness and Power Gem wielding Thor (which is Thor about 1000x stronger than he usually is). Thanos treats Silver Surfer like an ant regularly. Thanos has put Galactus on his ass. All of this with no weapons or prep time or artefacts.

His just on another level up than Hulk. Thanos is what would happen if you took Reed Richards and Dr Dooms brains, Dr Strange's magical mastery and Green Scar Hulk's pure strength, combined them together and amped them up a bit.
Yes and all of this is with the Infinity Gauntlet correct?

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Old 05-06-2012, 03:24 PM   #11
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Yes and all of this is with the Infinity Gauntlet correct?
Nope. That's just standard Thanos.

With the IG he could just snap his fingers and erase Hulk, or anyone, from existence.

But in the actual story line he purposefully turned off some of the IGs powers to make it a challenge. He still stomped all the heroes.

Now, will he be that powerful in the movies? I doubt it. But i imagine he'll still be more powerful than all the Avengers combined.

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Old 05-06-2012, 04:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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There was a decent explanation. Jane was taken to a secret research facility.

Thor was only on Earth for his brother. Bro's before hoes ya dig?

And Cap had his development. At the start of the film he was clearly awkward, felt out of place. But the new mission? That was what he needed. He's a soldier, a new mission made him feel worthwhile. And as the film progressed he became more confident. Culminating in Stark deferring to him in the battle and Cap giving out the orders, which was an excellent scene.

All this **** was there. Again, do you people want it spoon fed to you or what?
No, I don't want to be spoon fed, I wanted to experience the Man out of Time element of his character. By the time the movie starts, he's already done some adapting to the new time period. And I know that the mission helped get him focus. But I wanted to see what he went through before that.

When he went into suspended animation, it was the early 1940s. When he woke up, it was 2011-12. He remembered New York City one way. When he woke up, he experienced the modern day New York Times Square. How did he adapt to the new culture? What does he think of it? How does he feel about how cynical the world's become? How does he feel about all of his old colleagues dying? Or the wars that's been fought in his absence? He and Fury did seem to touch on the latter briefly, but that's it.

It wasn't spoon feeding when we got to see Thor's "fish out of water" experience in his movie, so I don't see how wanting to see Cap having his "out of time" experience as spoon feeding.

That's all I'm saying. It's whatever. What they showed and mentioned worked for the movie I guess.

I understand why Whedon needed to cut it from the film. I hope it makes it way to the blu-ray and its features. As said before, I'm really looking forward to Cap 2.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Nope. That's just standard Thanos.

With the IG he could just snap his fingers and erase Hulk, or anyone, from existence.

But in the actual story line he purposefully turned off some of the IGs powers to make it a challenge. He still stomped all the heroes.

Now, will he be that powerful in the movies? I doubt it. But i imagine he'll still be more powerful than all the Avengers combined.
Very nice. I am surprised by how little is known about Thanos' strength around here. He is the Ultimate..well character really. When I think of strength, Hulk, and Thanos. It just is natural so think Thanos is stronger.

Hulk's been beaten in brawls before. Like I said, Thanos has flat out KILLED the silver surfer in 6 punches.

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Old 05-06-2012, 03:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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He has, on numerous occasions. When was the last time Hulk blew up a planet just from the aftershocks of his punches?
Please. You think the Hulk couldn't do that? Of course being a hero, he isn't allowed to engage on that level. Especially since if he destroyed a planet he have nowhere to go.

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Thanos has literally pimp slapped Hulk aside before.
With the Gauntlet. And the Hulk has floored Thanos- WITH the Gauntlet.

Quote:
Thanos has no sold a Warrior Madness and Power Gem wielding Thor (which is Thor about 1000x stronger than he usually is). Thanos treats Silver Surfer like an ant regularly. Thanos has put Galactus on his ass. All of this with no weapons or prep time or artefacts.

His just on another level up than Hulk. Thanos is what would happen if you took Reed Richards and Dr Dooms brains, Dr Strange's magical mastery and Green Scar Hulk's pure strength, combined them together and amped them up a bit.
And yet he's been beaten by Captain Marvel and Warlock. Like I said, writers up and down power levels to suit storylines. And as you mention- Thanos' power isn't pure brute force. There's also cosmic energy and God-like resiliency behind it.

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Old 05-06-2012, 04:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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He has, on numerous occasions. When was the last time Hulk blew up a planet just from the aftershocks of his punches? Thanos has literally pimp slapped Hulk aside before. Thanos has no sold a Warrior Madness and Power Gem wielding Thor (which is Thor about 1000x stronger than he usually is). Thanos treats Silver Surfer like an ant regularly. Thanos has put Galactus on his ass. All of this with no weapons or prep time or artefacts.

His just on another level up than Hulk. Thanos is what would happen if you took Reed Richards and Dr Dooms brains, Dr Strange's magical mastery and Green Scar Hulk's pure strength, combined them together and amped them up a bit.
Actually he couldn't beat Warrior's Madness/Power Wielding Thor so he froze him in a block of solid force, but he's tough for even being able to survive those blows.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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There are characters who are more powerful than the Hulk. Cosmic powered, God-like beings. But when it comes to pure brute force the Hulk is it. Marvel goes out of its way to present this. As discussed some pages back, sure, writers alter eveyone's power levels when it suits them. But Thanos has never been shown to have the Hulk's level of pure stength. Maybe Thor's but not the Hulk.
Thanos KILLED Silver Surger in 6 punches. KILLED silver surfer in 6 PUNCHES. Thats a pretty damn impressive strength feat. Considering SS usually can take Thor's punches. I don't think Hulk could kill Silver Surfer in 6 punches, even World Breaker.

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Old 05-06-2012, 05:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

I just wanted to throw in here somewhere upon an fresh viewing-some people in the old thread were saying they didn't like the way that the Hulk went from bat***** crazy on the carrier to much more controlled after that so quickly.

In response, many have said that it was obvious Loki was controlling the Hulk. I am not saying this is not true at all but if you watch the scene you only see Loki once during the Widow/ Hulk battle/chase and it is pretty clear that he hears the roar and then smiles-to me suggesting he is kind of thinking-"good my plan is now in action."

To me the "plan" was always to have the Hulk just go on a tear to create chaos that would further distract and disconnect the team while dealing with Barton and squad.

In other words Hulk was his play but we wasn't controlling him necessarily just wanted him to be let loose. If he was controlling him why didn't he have Hulk bust the cage instead of Thor having done it? (edit-not busting in Thors case but being tricked into switching places).

An obvious response to this opinion would be the scene where everyone was bickering and Banner had the spear in his hands. My response would be that a. he was the closest and b. because of the soul gem or whatever being so close maybe he (Loki) could exert greater influence on their minds.

But again-if he could control Hulk as others are so sure why didn't he have the Hulk go nuts when they were all in the tight space together?

Just my 2 cents.


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Old 05-06-2012, 08:05 PM   #18
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But again-if he could control Hulk as others are so sure why didn't he have the Hulk go nuts when they were all in the tight space together?
Because he didn't have total control of him like he did with Hawkeye....he has a more subliminal/subtle control that made Bruce not have the control over the HULK that he had gained in the last year.

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Old 05-06-2012, 08:26 PM   #19
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Because he didn't have total control of him like he did with Hawkeye....he has a more subliminal/subtle control that made Bruce not have the control over the HULK that he had gained in the last year.
That doesn't make sense. If Loki's control, as you put it was -a more subliminal/subtle control that made Bruce not have the control over the HULK that he had gained in the last year-then it would have been easier for him to have Banner turn into the Hulk in the room...but he didn't. Clearly Banner was agitated at that point yet still able to NOT turn into the Hulk-so with Loki's control, as you see it, it would have been more likely the Hulk would have appeared. Unless it was Loki who was holding him back as well.

The control in question, at least how I see the debate, was when Hulk was the Hulk. And IMO this was not the case and I go back to the smile AFTER the roar to base my argument. If he could make the Hulk transform he would know he had done so and not react to a roar as if he now knew the Hulk was loose. Likewise if he could control him as the Hulk, regardless of how he transformed, he would know he was already transformed and not react to this fact as he did.

To me I still think it was more of a -let the firecracker go off-scenario that he trusted would provide a means for his escape. I didn't see anything that said he had a level of control over the Hulk subliminal or otherwise. I think it was more likely he trusted Barton would create enough chaos for this to unfold.

Also as I said earlier he probably was using the soul gem to agitate everyone as well so that he trusted the atmosphere would be produced for a Hulk appearance.


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Old 05-06-2012, 08:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

Thor just being able to come and go out of Asgard back to earth kind undoes the ending of his movie, or at least confirms my dislike for the ending.

Instead of stranding him in Asgard sad because he can't be with the woman he's known for a week, they should have had him get stranded on Earth, separated from his home and throne.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:28 PM   #21
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Thor just being able to come and go out of Asgard back to earth kind undoes the ending of his movie, or at least confirms my dislike for the ending.

Instead of stranding him in Asgard sad because he can't be with the woman he's known for a week, they should have had him get stranded on Earth, separated from his home and throne.
Thor couldn't come and go. Odin had to use some dark magic or energy spell to get him to Earth. However with the Tesseract in his possession, he can use that to go back and forth.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:31 PM   #22
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Thor just being able to come and go out of Asgard back to earth kind undoes the ending of his movie, or at least confirms my dislike for the ending.

Instead of stranding him in Asgard sad because he can't be with the woman he's known for a week, they should have had him get stranded on Earth, separated from his home and throne.
I don't see the problem. Odin using the full extent of his powers to get Thor back to Earth to capture Loki seems pretty reasonable. Did you think he would never be able to return?

Anyway, one thing I didn't like much was the go-between character Loki was dealing with. He came across as a little goofy.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:44 PM   #23
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Thor just being able to come and go out of Asgard back to earth kind undoes the ending of his movie, or at least confirms my dislike for the ending.

Instead of stranding him in Asgard sad because he can't be with the woman he's known for a week, they should have had him get stranded on Earth, separated from his home and throne.
Loki mocks Thor when they first meet, saying that Thor must love that Loki got the Teresect because it created an excuse for Odin to exert a lot of power just to send Thor to Earth. He even asks how much dark energy did the All-father need to send Thor now that the Bifrost is destroyed.

So that shows us that getting to Earth is a big feat even for Odin without the Bifrost, and sending Thor was done only to capture Loki and the Teresect. As others have said, it was made clear that the Teresect could open portals, so once Thor had it, he could get back to Asgard easily.

And with the Teresect back in Asgard, Odin can no doubt fix the Bifrost or at least send Thor to Earth more easily... for Thor's sequel no doubt.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Instead of stranding him in Asgard sad because he can't be with the woman he's known for a week, they should have had him get stranded on Earth, separated from his home and throne.
3 days .... not a week.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

  • The CGI gets dodgy towards the end. Though we're talking fantasy, some shots needed more work than others.
  • I know it's one of Loki's powers, but the mind control was weak. They could've foreshadowed it more than just the one time after the end of Thor if it was going to be a major part of The Avengers' plot.
  • The whole iridium subplot lost me. Was it really necessary? It didn't feel like it was.
  • I've no clue why the Council was in this, either. All they did was frown and provide a convenient solution to the Chitauri problem.
  • This is one of the few movies where the aspect ratio throws me off. It feels wider than it should.
Mostly nitpicks. I liked the movie. But it had its flaws, like any other movie.

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