Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

[herolee10]

[MagnarTheGreat]

Originally Posted by kvz5

I liked her sassiness in her first appearance in the movie when she put Daggett on his place. And yeah I liked the intimate scene too if we're just talking about that scene alone and not the context of it in the story. I mean, how can I really complain with wet Bale and Marion making out?

Talia: Indeed.

[herolee10]

I just realized that even with their younger versions, we never had a chance to see Ra's and Talia on screen at the same time with each other.

[SGTchef]

Originally Posted by herolee10

I just realized that even with their younger versions, we never had a chance to see Ra's and Talia on screen at the same time with each other.

Yes and it is one of my greatest deception. So much potential.

[kvz5]

Unfortunately, they were too busy connecting her to Bane rather than Ra's.

[MagnarTheGreat]

Some quotes! Probably not 100% perfect, but it's what I've gathered from various parts of the web... I wanted to buy the novelization but the two Walmarts I checked on different days were either out of them or never had them. I should just order it.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Miranda Tate/Talia

“You have to invest if you want to restore balance to the world.”

“Suffering builds character.”

“Do what is necessary.”

“[Bane] is not the child of Ra's al Ghul. I am.”

“[Bane is] my friend, my protector.”

“[My father] excommunicated Bane from the League of Shadows. His only crime was that he loved me.”

Ra's al Ghul

“Every time a civilization reaches the pinnacle of its decadence, we return to restore
the balance.” (Batman Begins)

“There are many forms of immortality.” (The Dark Knight Rises - Vision)

“An heir to ensure that the League of Shadows fulfills its duty to restore balance to civilization.” (The Dark Knight Rises – Vision)

[Baneis8feettall]

I loved Ra's cameo in TDKR. It was not just a nice touch to his immortality in comics but he still lives in Bruce's mind after all those years and Taila is his successor. He was a legend, an idea. Just like Batman become a legend and idea for Blake. In a way Batman became immortal as well.

And of course Liam Neeson factor.

[The Guard]

I have to agree with people who suggest Talia was underwritten.

But the main problem was that she felt so bland. There just wasn't really anything interesting about her personality until the last five minutes where she shows her true colors, and at least seems "energetic".

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by The Guard

I have to agree with people who suggest Talia was underwritten.

But the main problem was that she felt so bland. There just wasn't really anything interesting about her personality until the last five minutes where she shows her true colors, and at least seems "energetic".

Indeed; and it didn't help that they had to rush Batman defeating her and stopping the bomb not long after her big reveal.

[kvz5]

This was being discussed in the GD thread... IF Talia was introduced in BB, I wonder who would've played her? Definitely not Marion. Would they have used Katie for the Talia role then?

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by kvz5

This was being discussed in the GD thread... IF Talia was introduced in BB, I wonder who would've played her? Definitely not Marion. Would they have used Katie for the Talia role then?

Well, assuming IF Talia had been in BB, and IF Marion had still ended up playing the character back then, it makes me wonder though on:

• How would they have portrayed their relationship AFTER Bruce destroyed her dad’s home.lol

• Who or what would have been used to emphasize Bruce’s failure and tragedy in TDK instead of Rachel’s death and his feeling that he had lost his one chance to have a normal life?

[JTStarkiller]

Originally Posted by kvz5

This was being discussed in the GD thread... IF Talia was introduced in BB, I wonder who would've played her? Definitely not Marion. Would they have used Katie for the Talia role then?

I remember thinking that Rachel Weisz would've made a good Talia.

[Zatanna]

Originally Posted by kvz5

This was being discussed in the GD thread... IF Talia was introduced in BB, I wonder who would've played her? Definitely not Marion. Would they have used Katie for the Talia role then?

Oh hell NAW! LOL!!!

[MagnarTheGreat]

A bunch of random stuff:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Originally Posted by Kate's Talia Tumblr

I see a lot of people complaining about Talia’s death — specifically, the way Marion delivers her last line, her eyes flutter, and then she just abruptly dies. I will admit that, while I loved every part of the death scene, that part was pretty weak. But to everyone complaining — you guys know that was Nolan’s choice, right? He picked that take to go in the final version; he may have even been the one to tell her to die like that to begin with.

Directors pick the weirdest takes sometimes (I’m looking at you, Peter Jackson). Leaked set footage shows that there were plenty of different takes in various scenes that, ultimately, weren’t the takes chosen for the final film. You can’t really blame the actors for that, as they have no say in that matter.

I think the actual moment of Talia’s death could have been much stronger, but I place the blame for it on Nolan, not Marion. Whitewashing aside, I thought she was a brilliant Talia, and any perceived weaknesses in her acting seem (obviously, in my opinion) due to the way Nolan downplayed her character so much to keep her off the audience’s radar so no one would figure out that Miranda was Talia.

All that being said, while I strongly disagree with people blaming Marion for that part of her performance, this is hilarious: peopledyinglikemarioncotillard (though it should really be called “People Dying Like Nolan Told Marion Cotillard to Die”).

http://katefatale.tumblr.com/post/28...lt-not-marions

Originally Posted by TDKR Shooting Script

Laughter. Gordon turns. Talia, lying half out the truck.
Dying.

TALIA
Fox showed me how to operate the
reactor core. Including the
emergency flood -

INT. REACTOR PLANT - CONTINUOUS
Fox pulls himself above the rising whitewater -

EXT. TUNNEL ENTRANCE - CONTINUOUS
Gordon looks down at Talia. Batman is at his side.

TALIA
There is no way to stop this bomb.
Prepare yourselves... (Looks up at
Batman.) My father’s work is done.

Talia smiles as her eyes flutter closed. Gordon turns -
Batman is at the core, plunging his hands into the heat to
attach a hoist from the Bat.

In terms of "whitewashing," I was pleased that a part-Chinese actress portrayed her mother at least, so part of her heritage was acknowledged at least in that way.

Personally, I love her gloating even if I'm one of the few who understand it.

Originally Posted by Batman: The Animated Series

Batman: This is not over!

Talia climbs a ladder to a waiting plane after pointing a gun at Batman.



Talia: Vertigo has been dealt with, father.

Ra's al Ghul: Small wonder you seem so pleased.

Ra's al Ghul: Then your mission...

Talia: ...a complete success!

Originally Posted by Batman: The Lazarus Affair comic series / Catwoman comic

[kvz5]

I can't blame Marion for that. It's Nolan's fault for allowing that take to make the movie IMO. Marion will undeservingly get most of the ridicule though (like how Bale gets all the flak for the Batvoice).

[ComicStalker]

It would be nice for Nolan to replace Talia's death scene with another take or something else completely for the Blu-Ray...

[The Batman]

One of the things that bothers me most about her role in the movie is that for non fanboys, the movies ARE canon for certain characters. Its why the general audience still thinks Batman is mainly just a regular dude with some fighting skills and gadgets, despite the fact that he is a genius in the comics.

This movie was Talia's introduction for many viewers and they got it wrong in so many ways, IMO.

[kvz5]

The more I think about it, the more I realize that she's easily Nolan's worst written villain. She had zero redeeming qualities.

We don't know if Ra's was genuine in his fondness for Bruce or if that was all a form of manipulation on his part but we definitely felt something when he and Bruce were at odds in the end. Bane might've blown people to pieces but his past with Talia humanize him. Two-Face was obviously sympathetic. The Joker and Scarecrow were just fun in general. Talia was none of that. She wasn't even remotely interesting when she was Tate.

[jmc]

Originally Posted by kvz5

The more I think about it, the more I realize that she's easily Nolan's worst written villain. She had zero redeeming qualities.

We don't know if Ra's was genuine in his fondness for Bruce or if that was all a form of manipulation on his part but we definitely felt something when he and Bruce were at odds in the end. Bane might've blown people to pieces but his past with Talia humanize him. Two-Face was obviously sympathetic. The Joker and Scarecrow were just fun in general. Talia was none of that. She wasn't even remotely interesting when she was Tate.

It's funny you say that, essentially what I took away from Begins was that Ra's was being genuine and that he and Bruce were cut from the same cloth, both brought to the LoS by personal tragedy and injustice. You can make the argument about the whole 'theatricality and deception' thing which is fine in my book, it was open to interpretation, until Rises solidified the question, which to me is the biggest shame of the movie. Essentially for people like me Begins is no longer open to interpretation, it's black and white thanks to TDKR, and that is one of my biggest gripes with Rises is that how I've viewed Begins for the last 7 years is now wrong. Up until 2 weeks ago in my mind Ra's didn't have a family, the LoS was dead, there was a genuine brothers in arms feeling between the two, now all that is gone and I'll never be able to watch Begins the same way again.

[ComicStalker]

I really wish they hadn't made 2 of the 3 films essentially about the LOS. BB was great. But then to come back to that again for the 3rd was a bummer. Batman has one of the widest rogues gallarie of any superhero. So many interesting villians to chose from. For me, the combo of Bane and Talia was a bad choice. It did feel to me like Nolan just didnt care and took the script that they had and decided it was good enough to film and ran with it.

[kvz5]

Originally Posted by jmc

It's funny you say that, essentially what I took away from Begins was that Ra's was being genuine and that he and Bruce were cut from the same cloth, both brought to the LoS by personal tragedy and injustice. You can make the argument about the whole 'theatricality and deception' thing which is fine in my book, it was open to interpretation, until Rises solidified the question, which to me is the biggest shame of the movie. Essentially for people like me Begins is no longer open to interpretation, it's black and white thanks to TDKR, and that is one of my biggest gripes with Rises is that how I've viewed Begins for the last 7 years is now wrong. Up until 2 weeks ago in my mind Ra's didn't have a family, the LoS was dead, there was a genuine brothers in arms feeling between the two, now all that is gone and I'll never be able to watch Begins the same way again.

Yeah I hear ya. There are actually a lot of BB scenes that were kinda ruined for me because of TDKR. I can't even look at my favorite scene of Bruce being engulfed by the bats in the cave without thinking that someone else who doesn't even have a remote emotional connection to bats will have the exact same scene in TDKR.

FWIW I still like to think that Ra's genuinely cared for Bruce and he looked at him as his own son. He doesn't seem to have a good relationship with Talia anyway. Heck Ra's might've favored Bruce over Talia to take over his throne which I'm sure royally pissed Talia off. I think I would just conveniently forget some of the stuff for TDKR so it doesn't completely ruin BB and TDK for me.

[jmc]

Originally Posted by kvz5

Yeah I hear ya. There are actually a lot of BB scenes that were kinda ruined for me because of TDKR. I can't even look at my favorite scene of Bruce being engulfed by the bats in the cave without thinking that someone else who doesn't even have a remote emotional connection to bats will have the exact same scene in TDKR.

FWIW I still like to think that Ra's genuinely cared for Bruce and he looked at him as his own son. He doesn't seem to have a good relationship with Talia anyway. Heck Ra's might've favored Bruce over Talia to take over his throne which I'm sure royally pissed Talia off. I think I would just conveniently forget some of the stuff for TDKR so it doesn't completely ruin BB and TDK for me.

Thing is I don't want Rises to be the Terminator 3 of the series where I basically ignore that it happened. Sad thing is I'm not even sure I'm going to end up buying it on DVD. So much potential wasted.

[The Joker]

It's a bit surreal seeing kvz5 speak so negatively about Cottiard's character after over a year and a half of devoted praise about her on this forum.

I don't think any of us expected her to be as big of a letdown as she was. It's almost unbelievable.