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Old 10-19-2012, 11:49 AM   #1
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:49 AM   #2
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

I know this doesn't directly deal with MoS, but since we're in this conversation...
There are two schools of thought here, and one is prevailing...but just to play devil's advocate to Zorex:

If you had recently invested $200+ million in a solo superhero pic heavy on special effects and establishing worlds that didn't perform anywhere close to expectations, how would you feel about gambling an additional $500 mil.+ over the next three-to-five years on a green martian movie (first of all, emphasizing 'green' didn't go well already, and Martians haven't worked out so well recently), an Amazon warrior (bad TV pilot buzz hasn't helped public perception), and a speedster who may be an interesting character, but whose 'talent' really could be duplicated by another red & blue icon. Add to that a lingering audience favoritism and critical reception of a different recent interpretation of the 'winged freak, terrorizing Gotham' and what do you think?

I think one school of thought is prevailing here: why not just go for broke and invest $250 mil. in a superhero bonanza that doesn't really try to 'replicate' Marvel's The Avengers, but rather attempts to combine and reforge already-existing cultural associations with iconic characters, and based on who 'breaks out' a la Hulk, you can build from that...

And in terms of 'borrowing' cast or re-casting, well...it's all about business and public goodwill. I'll just say that...Man of Steel looks great so far!

'There are always...possibilities'

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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So do you guys still think it's possible that we may get an Entertainment Weekly or some type of magazine cover/article that gives out some new info and pictures for Man of Steel before the year is up?
I'm waiting for the Sci-Fi magazine Cover and spread myself. But to answer you query, I think so. I agree with others that December might be a good month for us.

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Agree so much. This is why I really have very little interest in any JL news... I think a part of me is hoping that if I just stick my head in the sand about it, it might just flop befor it ever gets going and I won't have to worry about it. I'll start actually worrying when casting happens
I was thinking the same thing. I have been waiting so long for a really good Superman movie that I almost don't want the JL to happen... I just really want a amazing movie to be proud of. Is that too much to ask? I don't think so...

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I thought that too. But the more I worry this film could turn out to be a trainwreck, the more I hope they keep Cavill and the MOS world seperate.
It's sad that we are so burned that no matter how good a movie feels or sounds or looks that we still have this voice in the back of our heads telling us,"be careful, this is a Superman movie and it might Suck..."

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Old 10-19-2012, 12:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

I'm also opposed to Cavill being part of the JL movie as I feel it would take away from the tone being set by his individual movie(s).

The Avengers (whilst great) was much more of a popcorn movie and had a much lighter tone that allowed them to get away with alot of hokeyness.

If they must do a JL movie I would rather them maybe try and adapt Mark Waid's JL:Year One which didn't have Supes or Bats, instead featuring Flash, GL, Black Canary, MM, Aquaman. If they maybe went with the new Arabic GL (distance it from last years abomination) and swapped MM for Cyborg (diversity). So the movie could spotlight more lesser known DC chars and be in a different lighter tone continuity to what Nolan and Snyder have done.

That may seem like a messy approach but I don't see how having 2 different movie continuity's would be any different to having the Disney/Marvel movies and FOX's X-Men movies (totally different canon).

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Old 10-19-2012, 12:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

People will not get the separate universe thing unless it's set in a different time like Kingdom Come or New Frontier.

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Old 10-19-2012, 12:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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People will not get the separate universe thing unless it's set in a different time like Kingdom Come or New Frontier.
Do they need to though? Were people watching the Avengers going "Where's Spider-man?". As long as Supes and Bats aren't mentioned I don't think people will notice/care.

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Old 10-19-2012, 12:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

Why would they ask where Spider-Man was in Avengers? He's not known for being one. The Justice League however, is known for having Superman and Batman in it.

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Old 10-19-2012, 12:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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Why would they ask where Spider-Man was in Avengers? He's not known for being one. The Justice League however, is known for having Superman and Batman in it.
I suppose but to the general masses 'Justice League' could mean anything. They could maybe get away with not having them...?

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Old 10-19-2012, 02:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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It's sad that we are so burned that no matter how good a movie feels or sounds or looks that we still have this voice in the back of our heads telling us,"be careful, this is a Superman movie and it might Suck..."
Yup

I mean, I feel pretty confident about MOS as it stands. But JL just adds this uncertainty to the future of the MOS franchise. We might get this one amazing film... then JL, which could be a complete trainwreck, would be part of that franchise if Cavill where involved... and then we could end up, further down the line, with an attempt at an MOS sequel that is the equivilent to B&R

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I suppose but to the general masses 'Justice League' could mean anything. They could maybe get away with not having them...?
I would be happy with that, but there is absolutely no way in hell they will do that. Batman and Superman are the main selling points of the team... people will come and see it just because it has them in. Without them, people may not bother.

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Old 10-19-2012, 01:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

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Yeah, let's be honest. WB doesn't have a great track record with their superhero films and, though they had a JL film in development before Avengers hit, this still feels like a mad rush money grab. Instead of investing the time in planning and building towards something as big as a multi-hero team up movie, WB just wants to get there as fast and easy as possible. That does not fill me with confidence in their ability to deliver a quality film. Not saying it's impossible, and doing the reverse of the Marvel approach (team movie to solo spinoffs) could possibly work, just saying that I don't have a good feeling about it.
Mad rush? Investing time?

The movie is 3 years away. How long should it take to make a movie?

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Old 10-19-2012, 01:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

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Mad rush? Investing time?

The movie is 3 years away. How long should it take to make a movie?
I'm talking about the build up to the movie. I'm concerned about the possibility that they might use MOS as the direct lead-in to JL. That's a bit of a leap. As if MOS didn't have enough riding on it already, now it might have to perform well enough to increase anticipation for a team movie?

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Old 10-19-2012, 04:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

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I'm talking about the build up to the movie. I'm concerned about the possibility that they might use MOS as the direct lead-in to JL. That's a bit of a leap. As if MOS didn't have enough riding on it already, now it might have to perform well enough to increase anticipation for a team movie?
I still wouldn't say it's a "mad rush". You either launch solo movies off a collective or vice versa. There's no right or wrong way to do it. And you can either rush or take your time with both approaches. Here they're certainly taking their time, given the 3 year period it's taking to make the movie.

Personally, I do think it's easier to do solo movies first, but that's not because of time constraints but rather storytelling constraints.

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Old 10-19-2012, 02:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

you can NOT have a JL movie without the big 3, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman.

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Old 10-19-2012, 04:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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you can NOT have a JL movie without the big 3, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman.
I would say you can't do it without Batman and Superman. You could definitely get by without Wonder Woman -- hell, it may be the best option as the character does not translate well at all to live action.

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Old 10-19-2012, 06:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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I would say you can't do it without Batman and Superman. You could definitely get by without Wonder Woman -- hell, it may be the best option as the character does not translate well at all to live action.
I've never really understood what's so difficult about translating Wonder Woman to the big screen... I mean, it'd be very similar to Thor wouldn't it?

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Old 10-19-2012, 07:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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I've never really understood what's so difficult about translating Wonder Woman to the big screen... I mean, it'd be very similar to Thor wouldn't it?
Ding Ding Ding!! 10 points Hopefuldreamer.

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Old 10-19-2012, 07:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

If MOS is successful and they want to make a sequel... when would it come out? 2014? In the same year as JL? Or after?

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Ding Ding Ding!! 10 points Hopefuldreamer.
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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 10-20-2012, 01:35 AM   #19
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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I've never really understood what's so difficult about translating Wonder Woman to the big screen... I mean, it'd be very similar to Thor wouldn't it?
Well, hell, first there's the name. Wonder Woman? It's a terrible name. But really female superheroes are difficult all around. Particularly those that only wear red, white, blue and gold underwear. In order to have her make any sense whatsoever on film, you'd have to completely reimagine her character. But even then, I don't know what you could do with that name. I guess you could just call her Diana the entire movie and have her not actually be a superhero (similar to Black Widow).

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Old 10-20-2012, 02:02 AM   #20
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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But really female superheroes are difficult all around.
Female superheroes are awesome. Who needs men?

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Old 10-20-2012, 02:50 AM   #21
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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Well, hell, first there's the name. Wonder Woman? It's a terrible name. But really female superheroes are difficult all around. Particularly those that only wear red, white, blue and gold underwear. In order to have her make any sense whatsoever on film, you'd have to completely reimagine her character. But even then, I don't know what you could do with that name. I guess you could just call her Diana the entire movie and have her not actually be a superhero (similar to Black Widow).
Maybe you don't call it Wonder Woman Man of Steel and the Dark Knght are proof you don't need the heroes name in the title.

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Old 10-20-2012, 03:24 AM   #22
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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Well, hell, first there's the name. Wonder Woman? It's a terrible name. But really female superheroes are difficult all around. Particularly those that only wear red, white, blue and gold underwear. In order to have her make any sense whatsoever on film, you'd have to completely reimagine her character. But even then, I don't know what you could do with that name. I guess you could just call her Diana the entire movie and have her not actually be a superhero (similar to Black Widow).
I wholeheartedly agree. She's just a silly character altogether, at least when we're talking live action.
The MOS-universe does not need a female THOR. It would just bring the whole thing down credibility-wise.
An amazon warrior princess with ideals of love, peace, and sexual equality? Yep, that's what we need. Not that there's anything wring with those ideals, but come on...

The only way to do her is like you suggest, to completely reimagine the character, but then it wouldnt be WW anymore and then what's the point of including her.

But in order of avoiding JL turning into a sausage-fest you'd need a female character. I just dont know (or care) who it'd be.

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Old 10-20-2012, 07:34 AM   #23
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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Well, hell, first there's the name. Wonder Woman? It's a terrible name. But really female superheroes are difficult all around. Particularly those that only wear red, white, blue and gold underwear. In order to have her make any sense whatsoever on film, you'd have to completely reimagine her character. But even then, I don't know what you could do with that name. I guess you could just call her Diana the entire movie and have her not actually be a superhero (similar to Black Widow).
I agree that there are some conceptual issues with Wonder Woman. But I don’t think the name, itself, is a big problem. If her moniker sounded weird originally, it’s become “normalized” over 70 years of pop culture familiarity and ubiquity.

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Old 10-20-2012, 11:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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Well, hell, first there's the name. Wonder Woman? It's a terrible name.
Hmmm....let's see.....superMAN, batMAN, aquaMAN, hawkMAN........and then wonderWOMAN.....yeah, I think I see the problem you are having.

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But really female superheroes are difficult all around.
Yep....they don't obey and actually try to leave the kitchen.....how rude of them.

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Particularly those that only wear red, white, blue and gold underwear.
Because no male superheroes wear garrish colors that are considered underwear.

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In order to have her make any sense whatsoever on film, you'd have to completely reimagine her character.
Yeah.....instead of fighting criminals, beating up men and monsters, or saving the world from alien invasion, she should be saving puppies and kittens from a flood, making a snack for Superman while he saves the world, or maybe heroicly comforting a child who scraped their knee.

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But even then, I don't know what you could do with that name.
Maybe wonderPERSON or maybe wonderI'MNOTREALLYTRYINGTOBEBETTERTHANAMAN.

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I guess you could just call her Diana the entire movie and have her not actually be a superhero (similar to Black Widow).
Yeah....because heaven forbid a female actually think she could stand beside the men and do what they do too.

Misogyny is alive and well at the Hype!

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Old 10-29-2012, 07:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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Well, hell, first there's the name. Wonder Woman? It's a terrible name. But really female superheroes are difficult all around. Particularly those that only wear red, white, blue and gold underwear. In order to have her make any sense whatsoever on film, you'd have to completely reimagine her character. But even then, I don't know what you could do with that name. I guess you could just call her Diana the entire movie and have her not actually be a superhero (similar to Black Widow).
Wonder woman's name is no more terrible than *Bat*man's or *Super*man's name.

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