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Old 11-24-2012, 04:13 PM   #1
MAKAVELI25
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Default What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

I've gotta say, as much as I criticized Nolan for the quick cut style he used in Batman Begins, in retrospect that might've been the most credible way to use Batman fighting multiple people

- Don't get me wrong, there are a couple of great fights in the trilogy such as Bane vs. Batman 1 and My favorite, the INCREDIBLE Batman vs. Swat in TDK. But as a whole a lot of the fights don't look that believable.

- Whenever Batman is facing more than one person, ESPECIALLY WITH GUNS, they just seem to stand around and wait for him to hit them. This was especially evident in the Hong Kong and Penthouse fight scenes in TDK, but you can still catch these same mistakes in TDKR, albeit to a less egregious degree. For instance, in both the rooftop scene and the scene where Batman is rescuing Blake, I feel like Bruce should've been shot multiple times. Maybe I've been spoiled by the Bourne movies, but apart from a few choice instances I haven't LOVED the choreography.

Note: I would've put this in the Fighting thread but I couldn't find it

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

The case of a man in a Bat suit in a real world setting would have me a bit cautious as to what he would do.

Lunging at said man in his bat-suit when he's been heavily rumored to disappear and throw things, and channel an army of bats at whim, would keep me a little guarded.


that's the only real way I can think of the approach to some of the thugs in the movies. I like the techniques he uses, but they are a bit cheap, especially in the scene where he saves blake.

But, that's the reason he got his ass kicked by Bane. Bane knew how to take him out before he threw him off the ramp they were fighting on.

Bruce didn't learn much from that ass kicking either, but he was able to Best Bane, by attacking his Achilles face mask.

The fight sequences could have been better, but the guy on the poster is wearing a suit of armor, and as fluid as they made it, it's still limited.


Next movie, Spandex!

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

The fights in Begins were the only ones that ever all felt real. From the very first fight with Bruce fighting six to seven men in the prison to the last with him taking on Ra's on the train.

Every fight had a sense of realism and danger that the ones in TDK and TDKR simply did not have (sans Bane vs Batman).

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

I definitely have a few problems with how the fights are held in that people seem to go at Bats one at a time and don't bother shooting him(although, it seemed like there were some guys shooting at Batman during that Hong Kong scene), but I feel that the choreography also became better in TDKR as well. While Batman vs Bane Round One was amazing, Round Two was still pretty good, although not as great as Round One.

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Old 11-24-2012, 07:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

I thought the way they did it in BB was perfect and got around this issue, but so many complaints from fanboys and the GA alike made Nolan have to change his style, which did allow you to see more, but had that classic issue of people standing around waiting to fight or straight up being terrible shots. Whatever, the scenes are still very involving for me. In TDK in particular though, the fighting is pretty slow and too blatantly choreographed.

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Old 11-24-2012, 07:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

Best thing Nolan did was listen to the complaints about that damn shaky cam in Begins.

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Old 11-24-2012, 07:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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Best thing Nolan did was listen to the complaints about that damn shaky cam in Begins.
And instead we got fight scenes that felt way too choreographed and made the fighting seem like a play where one guy attacks the protagonist, and then another when the first is knocked down.

Oh yes, best thing indeed.

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Old 11-24-2012, 07:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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And instead we got fight scenes that felt way too choreographed and made the fighting seem like a play where one guy attacks the protagonist, and then another when the first is knocked down.

Oh yes, best thing indeed.
Damn right best thing indeed cos only nit picking fan boys saw what you say. Did ya hear some big outcry for the shaky cam to come back after TDK? Nope. Did ya hear some big outcry about the fights in TDK? Nope.

I am tickled pink.

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Old 11-24-2012, 07:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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Damn right best thing indeed cos only nit picking fan boys saw what you say. Did ya hear some big outcry for the shaky cam to come back after TDK? Nope. Did ya hear some big outcry about the fights in TDK? Nope.

I am tickled pink.
Didn't hear some big outcry about the shaky cam either except for the nitpicking fanboys as well

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Old 11-24-2012, 07:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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Didn't hear some big outcry about the shaky cam either except for the nitpicking fanboys as well
Nope the G.A. *****ed about it as well. That's why Nolan changed it.

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Old 11-24-2012, 07:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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And instead we got fight scenes that felt way too choreographed and made the fighting seem like a play where one guy attacks the protagonist, and then another when the first is knocked down.

Oh yes, best thing indeed.
I'm very glad we agree on this.

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Old 11-24-2012, 08:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

Ahh, well I appreciate for you actually showing me than just talking, haha.

Needless to say though, I kinda wish Nolan didn't listen to these few complaints(if that is indeed the reason) and instead gave us over-choreographed fight scenes.

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Old 11-24-2012, 09:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

The fighting in Begins was good for what it was and in the context of the feeling was trying to convey..

the guys waiting to be hit bothered me in TDK, but everything else in those fights (the music the circumstance) made up for the sloppy execution.

TDKR improved a little but still wasn't perfect.

I think what annoys the most about the fighting was that everything in the films is so meticulously staged that you would expect the fights to measure up to that standard..

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Old 11-24-2012, 09:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

I've always thought the way the fights in BB were filmed was the better choice because it gave the illusion that Batman was lighting fast, which he most certainly is not in the sequels. But there definitely was in improvement in between TDK and TDKR.

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Old 11-24-2012, 09:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

I've always been fine with the first shaky cam in the dockyard scene. I get what Nolan was trying to do with his whole "Batman is like the Alien in Alien" approach so we never really see him until he grabs Falcone.

The parking lot scene in TDK had great combat as did the final Prewitt Building sequence. The rest? Not so much, but they're still watchable.

The 1st Batman and Bane fight was fantastic, besides the obvious parts where you can tell that some hits weren't even connecting. I didn't really have any problems with the combat in Rises overall.

I'll say this, Nolan did a better job of convincing me that Batman can fight on-screen than any of the past films.

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Old 11-24-2012, 11:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

I also enjoyed the choppiness of the BB fights. Aside from Batman vs. Bane, everything in TDK and TDKR looked too staged and choreographed.

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Old 11-25-2012, 10:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

Ehh, I wouldn't say TDKR looked too choreographed. That mostly happened in TDK. The only things that looked off were when Batman entered the City Hall and the guy ran up to him, metaphorically asking to be punched while trying to only hit Batman with his gun and then the overly-choreographed cops vs LoS/criminals.

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Old 11-25-2012, 11:13 AM   #18
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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Ehh, I wouldn't say TDKR looked too choreographed. That mostly happened in TDK. The only things that looked off were when Batman entered the City Hall and the guy ran up to him, metaphorically asking to be punched while trying to only hit Batman with his gun and then the overly-choreographed cops vs LoS/criminals.
This happens a couple of times in TDKR. Even in that rooftop fight sequence with Catwoman everyone tries to hit him conveniently ignoring the fact that they are holding guns

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Old 11-25-2012, 05:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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This happens a couple of times in TDKR. Even in that rooftop fight sequence with Catwoman everyone tries to hit him conveniently ignoring the fact that they are holding guns
That fight didn't look way too obvious though. Just like the Hong Kong scene in TDK. It doesn't look way too obvious with a group of people with guns than one solo person just trying to hit Batman with a gun.

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Old 11-25-2012, 08:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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This happens a couple of times in TDKR. Even in that rooftop fight sequence with Catwoman everyone tries to hit him conveniently ignoring the fact that they are holding guns
Yup. The only two fights worth a watch are the two Bats vs Bane ones.

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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Yup. The only two fights worth a watch are the two Bats vs Bane ones.
Speak for yourself. While I agree that the first Bane vs Bats fight was the best one in the trilogy, I was a tad disappointed by the second one's length, although it's still good and satisfying to see Batman gaining the upper hand and beating the crap out of Bane. I enjoyed the idea and execution of the shaky cam in BB and I thought the Prewitt building scene was good as well. Overall, yeah, fight scenes are definitely not this trilogy's strong point although I must stress I've always been fine with them, even the Hong Kong one which does look a bit too choreographed in parts. I love the part where Bats is dragging Lau away and throws an awesome punch at one of his mooks who tries to stop him. The way it sounded you'd think it was some sort of super-punch. There's a similar moment in TDKR, during the second Bats vs Bane fight when the latter punches Batman towards the steps. Again, the volume seems to have been brought up for that particular punch.

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Old 11-25-2012, 02:01 PM   #22
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

I tend to overlook stuff like that, mainly due to the fact that I've seen it happen in so many other movies.

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Old 11-25-2012, 02:27 PM   #23
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I tend to overlook stuff like that, mainly due to the fact that I've seen it happen in so many other movies.
Not really in a movie this big though. With the budget and resources Nolan had there's little excuse for how bad some of his fight scenes have been. I love the first two movies but that Hong Kong fights scene is almost laughable

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Old 11-25-2012, 02:38 PM   #24
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

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Not really in a movie this big though. With the budget and resources Nolan had there's little excuse for how bad some of his fight scenes have been. I love the first two movies but that Hong Kong fights scene is almost laughable
It's always sort of reminded me of the Stormtrooper syndrome. Henchmen can't aim or shoot properly. All the goons in the TDK Trilogy seem to be no exception

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Old 11-25-2012, 03:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?

It has the same problems most western movies have in close combat. Choreographies adapted too much to performers with very little agility , and no knowledge of fighting. Mix that with directors having very little experience with this area , and usually the results are lacklusters. But he definitely knows how to prepare fights , and even if sometimes the choreography isn't nothing to rave about , he achieved some very good scenes (the high note , bat vs bane , even the second one has some very nice touches). And he showed a lot of improvement .Keysi style also doesn't help , the swings are very tight and controlled , and it reduces the cinematic movement. That's why some of tdk's feel a little choppy , because he went the right way with a much more pronounced movement , but the small length style doesnt help.

Begins idea is nice , but im not particulary a fan of the execution.

I'll never forget reading about mr richard norton (a martial artist that started as a bouncer and bodyguard to stars , but then became an american actor who worked a lot on hk during the 80's and 90's ) , and he was asked what's the difference he felt from america to hk , and he said on the first day he was going to do a closeup shot and he thought it would be a simple pick up shot like he usually did , huge swing he bobbled the head and cut...but no. Sammo Hung just said the one thing he should know how to do was to take a punch. So he was really getting punched in the chin , with his mouth stuffed so he wouldn't break his teeth. This is the sort of realism that you either get it or you dont. And they cant put people in jeopardy , that's why there's always this falseness or staged fights in a lot of movies. If they want to crash a car , they go ahead and crash a car. They dont do exactly the same to movie stars.


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