Was I the only one shocked during the big reveal?

[Gotham Knight]

I know being as big of a Batman fan as I am, I shouldn't have been. That I should have seen the obvious Talia name cover up, just like with Ra's in Begins. But I was so intensely into the movie towards the end, that knowing the history of the comic books and knowing that Miranda had to be Talia, it's like my brain couldn't acknowledge it when Batman was interrogating Bane about "THE TRIGGA!!!."

Then when she stuck the knife through him, you would have thought that I had no idea that Talia was a character in the DC universe. I even thought that Batman was possibly going to die by hanging(when Bane was covering his neck with the noose). I guess I assumed that in the end Catwoman would someone show up to foil the plan at the last moment. But it really didn't make sense thinking for more than 5 seconds about that as a potential ending. And I was too wrapped up in the moment and not wanting Batman to really die in the film, that I couldn't look that much into it. It played out too fast for my brain to make recognition of it all.

I guess I get sucked into movies sometimes, and all that reading of spoilers and stuff just goes out the window when I'm actually focused and watching the movie. Anyone else shocked at the twist?

[The Joker]

It was one of the most unsurprising movie twists I've ever seen. Clear as day pics of Cottiard in LOS garb walking casually with armed LOS men were all over the net a year before the movie's release.

One of the worst kept secrets for a movie.

[Gotham Knight]

Originally Posted by The Joker

It was one of the most unsurprising movie twists I've ever seen. Clear as day pics of Cottiard in LOS garb walking casually with armed LOS men were all over the net a year before the movie's release.

One of the worst kept secrets for a movie.

Well see, I hadn't seen those pictures. I just knew about the rumors. That's a really different situation you were in. I was referring to people that didn't know it as fact.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by The Joker

It was one of the most unsurprising movie twists I've ever seen. Clear as day pics of Cottiard in LOS garb walking casually with armed LOS men were all over the net a year before the movie's release.

One of the worst kept secrets for a movie.

Not as bad a secret as the one of Ducard being Ra's, since they goofed on the initial press release, and then the script leaked a year before the movie's release. Like father like daugher eh?

To me, Tate= Talia was no more of a twist than Dent becoming Two-Face. The thing was, with Dent I was waiting for the turn the whole time whereas with Talia I honestly stopped waiting for it to happen because I didn't want to disappointed if it didn't. When the reveal happened, it actually did shock me.

[AnneFan]

Originally Posted by The Joker

It was one of the most unsurprising movie twists I've ever seen. Clear as day pics of Cottiard in LOS garb walking casually with armed LOS men were all over the net a year before the movie's release.

One of the worst kept secrets for a movie.

Definitely. I wasn't surprised at all. It would've been a lot more surprising if she remained as Tate.

[TheDreamMaster]

Originally Posted by The Joker

It was one of the most unsurprising movie twists I've ever seen. Clear as day pics of Cottiard in LOS garb walking casually with armed LOS men were all over the net a year before the movie's release.

One of the worst kept secrets for a movie.

Yep, this spoiled it for me too.

[theShape]

Originally Posted by The Joker

It was one of the most unsurprising movie twists I've ever seen. Clear as day pics of Cottiard in LOS garb walking casually with armed LOS men were all over the net a year before the movie's release.

One of the worst kept secrets for a movie.

One of the most unsurprising twists for you, sure. And even for the majority of us here at SHH. But every person that I saw the film with (none of them being news/picture-seeking whores like ourselves) was completely surprised and loved the twist.

For the most part, the twist being one of the "worst kept secrets for a movie" comes down to this: the decision to shoot that final sequence outdoors and on location. I, for one, am still more than happy with that final "war" because it's a beautiful sequence that feels 10x more authentic than it would have felt if it was shot in front of green screens or on a set with CGI additions. That was clearly Nolan's thinking behind it, as well.

And even with those pics leaking and the rumors being afloat for months, so many were never exposed to them and were completely surprised. I didn't read one major review that complained about a "completely obvious twist" or anything like that.

We Hypesters weren't surpsied because we are all keen detectives when it comes to these things and have spoiled countless movies for ourselves over the years.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by theShape

One of the most unsurprising twists for you, sure. And even for the majority of us here at SHH. But every person that I saw the film with (none of them being news/picture-seeking whores like ourselves) was completely surprised and loved the twist.

A well kept movie secret doesn't get splashed all over the internet in PICTORIAL form for anyone to see. It's got nothing to do with being a news seeking whore. This was dangled in front of our noses.

And even with those pics leaking and the rumors being afloat for months, so many were never exposed to them and were completely surprised. I didn't read one major review that complained about a "completely obvious twist" or anything like that.

There's loads of reviews that said it was obvious. Cottiard was even being asked in interviews before the movie was released if she was Talia, and she was denying it; http://www.craveonline.com/film/arti...k-knight-rises

Then you had little Joey King revealing it, too; http://www.totalfilm.com/news/joey-k...-rises-spoiler That's being reported by tons of movie websites like Total Film which loads of casual movie goers read.

It was all as subtle as a brick. Awful kept secret. Just awful.

[theShape]

Originally Posted by The Joker

A well kept movie secret doesn't get splashed all over the internet in PICTORIAL form for anyone to see. It's got nothing to do with being a news seeking whore. This was dangled in front of our noses.



There's loads of reviews that said it was obvious. Cottiard was even being asked in interviews before the movie was released if she was Talia, and she was denying it; http://www.craveonline.com/film/arti...k-knight-rises

Then you had little Joey King revealing it, too; http://www.totalfilm.com/news/joey-k...-rises-spoiler That's being reported by tons of movie websites like Total Film which loads of casual movie goers read.

It was all as subtle as a brick. Awful kept secret. Just awful.

Again, there's no statistic to prove this, but it seems like the amount of people who were exposed to those set pics and big "reveal" by a completely unknown child actor is completely miniscule compared the the actual amount of people who saw the movie worldwide.

Was it as well-kept of a secret as the ending of Psycho or The Sixth Sense? Not at all, but that's tough to do in this day and age. It's not as if this massive spoiler was being blasted all over the different formats of mainstream news. I'm also willing to bet that if Batman Begins were shot in 2011 under the extremely high level of scrutiny and coverage that TDKR's shooting received, that spoiler would have seen some internet attention as well.

I'm just saying that I don't really blame Christopher Nolan for this at all. We know the dude keeps his films heavily guarded, but that became increasingly difficult to do as the series progressed, especially after TDK became one of the biggest films ever.

[Just_Human]

I knew she was going to be Talia even before the pics of Marion wearing LOS clothes came up


I mean, Cotillard could easily pass for an Arab woman (one of my friends is from Algeria, and his mom is a carbon copy of Marion; yeah thats one hot milf)

Plus, Miranda Tate ..... sounds made up lol ......but srsly, "Tate" ... "tête", which means "head" - Talia Head- in French, and Marion is French.
See what they did there ?

[Gotham Knight]

Originally Posted by Just_Human

I knew she was going to be Talia even before the pics of Marion wearing LOS clothes came up


I mean, Cotillard could easily pass for an Arab woman (one of my friends is from Algeria, and his mom is a carbon copy of Marion; yeah thats one hot milf)

Plus, Miranda Tate ..... sounds made up lol ......but srsly, "Tate" ... "tête", which means "head" - Talia Head- in French, and Marion is French.
See what they did there ?

Those sneaky...

[MagnarTheGreat]

Even after all the set photos and The Hollywood Reporter and Devin Faraci's story rumors (chart), a lot people still doubted Talia was in the film on the forum. I dealt with them all the time. The number of doubters shrank last year before release.

[TheGuy]

A bit. Never saw the pic too and only heard about the rumors. "Restore balance..." was a hint she's Talia.

[Mace Dolex]

I avoided all types photo leaks with Marion in LOS gear but with countless rumors of her being Talia I wasn't surprised at all.

I was a bit confused when up till that big reveal Nolan had us fooled in thinking Bane was Ra's Al Ghul's son.

[Tacit Ronin]

It was baffling to me how easily people here predicted the entire plot of the film. Except maybe JGL's role (a lot of us were convinced of his villainy). Despite how fluidly the dots connected, we were in denial, telling ourselves the plot couldn't be that predictable, that it was Nolan!

[jmc]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

It was baffling to me how easily people here predicted the entire plot of the film. Except maybe JGL's role (a lot of us were convinced of his villainy). Despite how fluidly the dots connected, we were in denial, telling ourselves the plot couldn't be that predictable, that it was Nolan!

I had myself convinced the plot wouldn't be so obvious. Trust Nolan blah, blah, blah.

[Tacit Ronin]

Originally Posted by jmc

I had myself convinced the plot wouldn't be so obvious. Trust Nolan blah, blah, blah.

Remember when Devin Faraci broke the news that Talia and Bane would lead the LOS in their return to Gotham and would be lovers? We all mocked him. Fuming, we all cried that Nolan won't be that uninspired.

The only thing he got wrong was JGL's role.

[BatLobsterRises]

Devin's report said that Batman would be taking on Bane while Catwoman took on Talia in the climax. I was fine about the Bane and Talia angle, only was dreading a guy v guy/girl v girl scenario. So he got that wrong. And Bane and Talia weren't lovers either.

I'm starting to really hate spoilers, it really does eat away at the joy of watching movies when things get taken out of context. Glad I'm completely spoiler free so far for Man of Steel, Star Trek and Iron Man 3.

[MagnarTheGreat]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Devin's report said that Batman would be taking on Bane while Catwoman took on Talia in the climax. I was fine about the Bane and Talia angle, only was dreading a guy v guy/girl v girl scenario. So he got that wrong. And Bane and Talia weren't lovers either.

I'm starting to really hate spoilers, it really does eat away at the joy of watching movies when things get taken out of context. Glad I'm completely spoiler free so far for Man of Steel, Star Trek and Iron Man 3.

They likely changed the script since his source(s) received their information and "game of telephoned" it to him. The published script deviates from the movie a lot near the end. Interesting enough, there's names and dates such as "PINK REVISION", "BLUE REVISION", and "WHITE REVISION" on some of the script photos in the Second Screen app and dates that took place from March to June 2011. Might have been some minor production rewrites going on elsewhere in the script.

[Doc Samson]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

It was baffling to me how easily people here predicted the entire plot of the film. Except maybe JGL's role (a lot of us were convinced of his villainy). Despite how fluidly the dots connected, we were in denial, telling ourselves the plot couldn't be that predictable, that it was Nolan!

Which is exactly why I think a lot of hardcore fans don't like TDKR as much as more general fans do. I've been saying this from the time the movie came out, because it was one of my initial issues with it.

I kept myself away from this site but not before I saw the spy pics of Marion, not to mention Liam Neeson getting spotted on set which only lends credence to who she really was (and further spoiling the Ras cameo in and of itself)

I also read some of the Blake theories, that after some thought, made sense. Obviously we also know what Bane's original purpose was in the comics, so even when that happened it was less of a shock to us then to someone who has no idea who Bane is. Even the fake death is reminiscent of Dark Knight Returns, and something we speculated about months prior.

Going into a movie with all that swirling in your head ultimately just gives everything much less of an impact and also undermines Nolan's "twists" that are his usual MO. Just about every pivotal scene or moment in TDKR is robbed of surprise & suspense if you're any type of hardcore Batman fan.

[jmc]

Thing is people were figuring out the plot long before filming had even started. The whole Bane leading the LoS to finish what Ra's started was discussed pretty much the moment it was revealed Bane would be the villain and that Miranda Tate was a character.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by jmc

Thing is people were figuring out the plot long before filming had even started. The whole Bane leading the LoS to finish what Ra's started was discussed pretty much the moment it was revealed Bane would be the villain and that Miranda Tate was a character.

Yeah, I've never seen so many big details to a CBM movie get figured out so accurately long before the movie was due for release.

[kvz5]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

To me, the biggest twist of the film was the fact that the key to Bruce's rise was allowing fear back in. That's the core of the story and it flips his entire journey on its head while bringing it full circle..

That was a nice surprise to me.

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yeah, I've never seen so many big details to a CBM movie get figured out so accurately long before the movie was due for release.

Yeah... And I remember a lot thinking that it can't be it. It can't be that simple. There has to be something more. It's Nolan after all.

I remember when the 3rd trailer came out, someone suggested that the back shot of Catwoman riding the Batpod might be the last shot of TDKR (since it kinda mirror's Batman's last shot in TDK) and I scoffed at the suggestion. I said there's absolutely no way that Nolan will end TDKR and his entire Batman trilogy with a shot of a character that's not Bruce and someone not even introduced until the 3rd movie. I said that even if Bruce dies, it will end with something/someone consistent within the 3 movies like maybe Gordon, the Batsignal, or Gotham. Oops. I was so wrong.

[TheBat812]

Originally Posted by Doc Samson

Which is exactly why I think a lot of hardcore fans don't like TDKR as much as more general fans do. I've been saying this from the time the movie came out, because it was one of my initial issues with it.

I kept myself away from this site but not before I saw the spy pics of Marion, not to mention Liam Neeson getting spotted on set which only lends credence to who she really was (and further spoiling the Ras cameo in and of itself)

I also read some of the Blake theories, that after some thought, made sense. Obviously we also know what Bane's original purpose was in the comics, so even when that happened it was less of a shock to us then to someone who has no idea who Bane is. Even the fake death is reminiscent of Dark Knight Returns, and something we speculated about months prior.

Going into a movie with all that swirling in your head ultimately just gives everything much less of an impact and also undermines Nolan's "twists" that are his usual MO. Just about every pivotal scene or moment in TDKR is robbed of surprise & suspense if you're any type of hardcore Batman fan.

This happens with all media. Even a show like Breaking Bad. If you discuss it to death in a forum, odds are SOMEBODY is going to nail the basic plot lines. But the beauty of art is in the details, and no matter how hard you try those will always be the Nolan's alone. I don't think they were trying to fool comic lovers (they deliberately used huge ideas from them as influence in each film), they were trying to bring it all together in a more meaningful/thematically relevant and interesting new way.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

1. Dent's impending transformation is well known to even the most casual of geeks. But his role beyond that (and the shocking fact of his death) was completely unknown.

2. Everybody had a hunch that Rachel would die but the way Nolan kills her off so abruptly definitely shocked people.

3. One may have known subconsciously that Gordon is alive but the transport chase scene does a masterful job of letting you divert your attention thoroughly from Gordon (ironic since he was there the whole time).

It's the execution of those potentially predictable plot points that made The Dark Knight seem fresher than it really was.

Originally Posted by jmc

It's about the journey to those events, Two-Face was a given, the difference is when Harvey turned it sucked because we had an emotional investment in the character. There was no such investment in Talia.

Exactly

I didn't give a damn about the Tate betrayal either, because Bruce had like 7 minutes of boring screen time with Tate before this. Their sex scene was so random, didn't feel natural, and there was no chemistry to it.