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Old 01-26-2013, 07:31 PM   #1
pr0xyt0xin
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Default Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

When I rewatch the films, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises, they are so near-perfect that I get a little choked up that they aren't absolutely perfect. I like to believe a few things that weren't shown on screen to help me enjoy the series as a whole.

1. Batman's first appearance was in 2002, Two-Face first appears in 2004. Bane attacks in 2012. Bruce Wayne is nearly 40.
2. Ras Al Ghul may have been killed by the subway crash, but he was brought to the Lazarus Pits by the League of Shadow and resurrected.
3. Between BB and TDK Batman rounds up many of the Arkham escapees. Including Victor Zsasz, Mad Hatter and Black Mask.
4. Two-Face was not killed by the fall. The same fall that didn't kill Batman. He was just unconscious and brought to a secure wing at Arkham where his identity is secure from the public and even Jim Gordon. Bruce Wayne funds this secure wing and pays off the employees there.
5. Joker is in the same secure wing at Arkham during the events of TDKR. His primary care psychiatrist is Dr. Harleen Quinzel.
6. Batman is not actually retired between TDK and TDKR, but fighting crime in secret. Alfred and Lucius don't know, Gordon may or may not suspect. The police and general public don't know about ALL the crime that happens in the city. In secret, he takes on his more underground foes.

a.) Falcone and Maroni are behind bars or otherwise incapacitated, and the Dent Act is preventing virtually any organized crime in Gotham. Oswald Cobblepot is the only man insane enough to attempt relaunching the mob. The winter after Batman's disappearance he hires Victor Fries to locate and assassinate the Batman in exchange for the funding he needs to pay for his wife's medical bills.
b.) Only a few years after The Joker's capture, a man by the name of Edward Nigma decides to follow in his footsteps and have a little fun with Batman, leaving him riddles to save an innocent woman named Pamela Eisley from certain death. Batman narrowly saves the day and discovers Poison Ivy is not as innocent as she seems.
c.) Batman tracks down the mad scientist Dr. Hugo Strange and his mindless monster Killer Croc. Croc, a man twisted by his physical deformities and violently dangerous due to chemical experimentation, brutally damages Batman's leg in battle.

7. Bane is not killed by Catwoman on the Batpod, his armor and physical flawlessness barely save his life. Him and Scarecrow are taken to the same secure wing as Joker and Two-Face.
8. Talia Al Ghul was killed in the final chase sequence of TDKR, but Ras comes out of hiding and resurrects her using the Lazarus Pits.
9. John Blake (born Robin Richard Grayson) imagines his parents were famous circus performers, but actually didn't know them. He becomes Nightwing and not "Batman." He goes on to continue battling Batman's rogues gallery, when, after Wayne Enterprises goes bankrupt, Arkham's secure wing loses funding. Dr. Harleen Quinzel, now obsessed with The Joker, assists in his release, who in turn releases the entire Asylum.
10. The events of Man of Steel take place shortly after Batman's actual retirement. Bruce believes Superman's appearance will be enough to finally inspire the world. Subsequently the real Batman is called upon to help save the world.

One of the major things that bugs me (as you can probably tell) is that Batman kills so many villains. Even if accidentally. I'm just glad that Nolan made each of these things slightly ambiguous enough for me to use my imagination.

Anyone else take part in this method of self-delusion?

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Old 01-26-2013, 09:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

What could have happened to Reese from TDK. I wish they would have explored that more.

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Old 01-26-2013, 09:55 PM   #3
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I would have loved to see Coleman Reese being used in TDKR with the scenario of Wayne losing his money because that's what Reese's job was pretty much about in TDK....keep Bruce rich(in simple terms), so him being an ally and trying to find out how Bane did what he did and then having Bane kill him would've added some closure and some development to Reese from a guy who wanted to reveal the identity of the Batman to someone who became an ally.

But...as for things I would want to believe what happened in the series?

1.) Joker went into a coma-like state sometime during those eight years after finding out Batman went into exile and then wakes up soon after Blake becomes the new Batman.

2.) Blake's first mission as a FULLY-TRAINED Batman is capturing Scarecrow and he succeeds.

3.) Gordon retires and finally makes peace with his wife while Ellen Yindel becomes the new police commissioner.

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
I would have loved to see Coleman Reese being used in TDKR with the scenario of Wayne losing his money because that's what Reese's job was pretty much about in TDK....keep Bruce rich(in simple terms), so him being an ally and trying to find out how Bane did what he did and then having Bane kill him would've added some closure and some development to Reese from a guy who wanted to reveal the identity of the Batman to someone who became an ally.

But...as for things I would want to believe what happened in the series?

1.) Joker went into a coma-like state sometime during those eight years after finding out Batman went into exile and then wakes up soon after Blake becomes the new Batman.

2.) Blake's first mission as a FULLY-TRAINED Batman is capturing Scarecrow and he succeeds.

3.) Gordon retires and finally makes peace with his wife while Ellen Yindel becomes the new police commissioner.
Not to derail the thread, but I think had Heath lived, that's how they would have used the Joker in TDKR. Soon as Bruce makes his return as Batman, the Joker wakes up from his years-long catatonic state, just like how it played out in TDKR graphic novel.

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:11 PM   #5
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2. Two-Face was not killed by the fall. The same fall that didn't kill Batman.
I just read this over again and while I know this is something you would have, Batman at least had armor that protected him except for slamming down on his leg without his cape helping him out(in other situations in TDK), but Dent didn't have any protection and that's why the fall broke his neck.

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Not to derail the thread, but I think had Heath lived, that's how they would have used the Joker in TDKR. Soon as Bruce makes his return as Batman, the Joker wakes up from his years-long catatonic state, just like how it played out in TDKR graphic novel.
I would have liked that as well, but as someone who was totally fine with the LoS being used and what not, I think I would have just kept Joker being in a catatonic state, even when Batman returns for one, two days tops, it never really happens until Blake becomes Batman...so, realistically, I would have liked that story to be told in form of a graphic novel and Joker wouldn't have to be mentioned at all in TDKR, still, if we're going by Ledger having passed. Joker could have been saved for a graphic novel after Blake's time as Batman.


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Old 01-26-2013, 11:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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But...as for things I would want to believe what happened in the series?

1.) Joker went into a coma-like state sometime during those eight years after finding out Batman went into exile and then wakes up soon after Blake becomes the new Batman.

2.) Blake's first mission as a FULLY-TRAINED Batman is capturing Scarecrow and he succeeds.

3.) Gordon retires and finally makes peace with his wife while Ellen Yindel becomes the new police commissioner.
I would like to see Blake (as Nightwing) fight Batman's more abstract villains. Perhaps a new trilogy?

vs. Hugo Strange/Killer Croc
vs. Penguin/Freeze
vs. Riddler/Ivy

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I just read this over again and while I know this is something you would have, Batman at least had armor that protected him except for slamming down on his leg without his cape helping him out(in other situations in TDK), but Dent didn't have any protection and that's why the fall broke his neck.
I just don't think Batman was truly left without any options. He could have jumped in front of the bullet with his bulletproof armor. He could have bataranged Dent's hand. He did everything in his power to save the Joker, grapple gunned his FOOT from 20 stories up. And yet he (inadvertantly) kills Gotham's white knight? nah. id rather be blissfully ignorant on the subject.

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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Not to derail the thread, but I think had Heath lived, that's how they would have used the Joker in TDKR. Soon as Bruce makes his return as Batman, the Joker wakes up from his years-long catatonic state, just like how it played out in TDKR graphic novel.
As much as I love that Dark Knight Returns idea, I can't see it in this movie verse because I cannot fathom Joker slipping away into a comatose state knowing Gotham is thriving on a lie about Harvey Dent that is stopping him from winning the battle for Gotham's soul.

He wouldn't sit by and not try and do something about that. That was his ace in the hole.

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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I would have loved to see Coleman Reese being used in TDKR with the scenario of Wayne losing his money because that's what Reese's job was pretty much about in TDK....keep Bruce rich(in simple terms), so him being an ally and trying to find out how Bane did what he did and then having Bane kill him would've added some closure and some development to Reese from a guy who wanted to reveal the identity of the Batman to someone who became an ally.

But...as for things I would want to believe what happened in the series?

1.) Joker went into a coma-like state sometime during those eight years after finding out Batman went into exile and then wakes up soon after Blake becomes the new Batman.

2.) Blake's first mission as a FULLY-TRAINED Batman is capturing Scarecrow and he succeeds.

3.) Gordon retires and finally makes peace with his wife while Ellen Yindel becomes the new police commissioner.
Batman spent 7 years traveling the world and training and lost to scarecrow his first bout with him. There is no way Blake would defeat Scarecrow on his first night out

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:18 PM   #9
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Batman spent 7 years traveling the world and training and lost to scarecrow his first bout with him. There is no way Blake would defeat Scarecrow on his first night out
There is when Crane didn't seem like he had his mask or any of his fear gas on him as the judge.

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

Then that's not really Scarecrow

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:25 PM   #11
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You know what I mean

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin View Post
When I rewatch the films, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises, they are so near-perfect that I get a little choked up that they aren't absolutely perfect. I like to believe a few things that weren't shown on screen to help me enjoy the series as a whole.

1. Ras Al Ghul may have been killed by the subway crash, but he was brought to the Lazarus Pits by the league of shadow and resurrected.
2. Two-Face was not killed by the fall. The same fall that didn't kill Batman. He was just unconscious and brought to a secure wing at Arkham where his identity is secure from the public.
3. Joker is in the same secure wing at Arkham during the events of TDKR.
4. Batman is not actually retired between TDK and TDKR, but fighting crime in secret. Alfred and Lucius don't know, Gordon may or may not suspect. The police and general public don't know about ALL the crime that happens in the city.
5. Bane is not killed by Catwoman on the Batpod, his armor and physical flawlessness barely save his life. Him and Scarecrow are taken to the same secure wing as Joker and Two-Face.
6. Talia Al Ghul was killed in the final chase sequence of TDKR, but Ras comes out of hiding and resurrects her using the Lazarus Pits.

One of the major things that bugs me (as you can probably tell) is that Batman kills so many villains. Even if accidentally. I'm just glad that Nolan made each of these things slightly ambiguous enough for me to use my imagination.

Anyone else take part in this method of self-delusion?
Yeah I can agree these are all plausible in a "what if?" factor, we can all assume something like this could've happened especially in the 8 year interim.

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

I like to think that Joker was taken into federal custody after TDK. It makes more sense than him being the only patient in Arkham. I like to think Gotham is a level of Limbo and all the characters are facets of Cobb's personality at different stages in his life.

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Old 01-26-2013, 11:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

Batman had just been shot wearing a suit that is susceptible to knives and gun fire. I don't think he had time to strategize a non lethal way to stop Dent. I think he acted at the last second out of desperation to save a child.

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Old 01-26-2013, 11:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

Gotham's White Knight was going to blow an innocent kid's brain out, too.

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:33 AM   #16
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Batman had just been shot wearing a suit that is susceptible to knives and gun fire. I don't think he had time to strategize a non lethal way to stop Dent. I think he acted at the last second out of desperation to save a child.
Agreed

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Gotham's White Knight was going to blow an innocent kid's brain out, too.
and agreed.

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Old 01-27-2013, 03:19 PM   #17
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Batman had just been shot wearing a suit that is susceptible to knives and gun fire. I don't think he had time to strategize a non lethal way to stop Dent. I think he acted at the last second out of desperation to save a child.
But he had time to save the Joker from dying in a very similar manner.

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Gotham's White Knight was going to blow an innocent kid's brain out, too.
Merely used "white knight" to illustrate what should have been Batman's extreme reluctance to let Dent die. As opposed to letting the Joker die, which would have been quite a bit easier on his conscience I assume.

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Old 01-27-2013, 03:38 PM   #18
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But he had time to save the Joker from dying in a very similar manner.
No he didn't. Joker fell by himself. Batman fell with Dent and Gordon's son. He could only save one or the other. Not both.

With Joker he clearly strategized the attack to graze his face with those wrist blades ("No, but I know how you got these"), then throw him off the building, then catch him with the grappling hook. That was an obvious planned strategy.

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Old 01-27-2013, 07:20 AM   #19
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I like to believe that jakinj's webcomics happened, and that Batman made 9 covert appearances to stop major crime during his absence before he couldn't carry on any further. The "new Batman" isn't required to act very often though, but still gets advice from Bruce from time-to-time.

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Old 01-27-2013, 08:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

I like to believe that Bruce Wayne's favorite food is nachos. Like after a long night of crime fighting he's like - "Yo, Alfred! Cook up a plate of nachos!"

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Old 01-27-2013, 09:05 AM   #21
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That Selina and Bruce did a sex-tape, as Catwoman and Batman.

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:02 AM   #22
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The way Selina can bend her legs...I bet Bruce would have fun in that sex tape, lol.

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:16 AM   #23
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I like that idea of Joker in a catatonic state like Returns. But only for a portion of the 8 years.

As the years went on after TDK he slowly lost hope in the lie being uncovered, as well as Batman returning. To have it parallel Bruce's story, Joker falls into that catatonic state around the time that Bruce becomes a recluse in Wayne Manor. So the last 3 years before Rises picks up. Would love to think of Harley Quinn as the psychiatrist slowly helping out the Joker before and after this.

I also am a fan of Jakinj's 9 Bat appearance idea (post-tdk). Sometimes i like to believe that some of his pieces were true. Not really the bat-family stuff though.

Im a believer of the 3 year gap between Begins and Knight so my imagination runs wild with that. Batman taking on more mob bosses and henchmen (Penguin, Black Mask, Alberto Falcone, Killer Croc). Leftovers from the previous film (Zsasz, Scarecrow). And inmates from Arkham who broke out (Mad Hatter, Poison Ivy, Ventriloquist).

Then there's Blake. He's gonna battle Joker eventually. You have Riddler, Scarecrow & Freeze as antagonists too.

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3.) Gordon retires and finally makes peace with his wife while Ellen Yindel becomes the new police commissioner.
I like this too. But with Gordon having a fling with Sarah Essen first. They agree to not see each other anymore, he wants to retire and misses his wife and family. He leaves Gotham to work out things with them. Ellen Yindel takes over.

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Old 01-27-2013, 03:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

How was Batman supposed to save the kid and shoot the grappling gun to save dent and save himself?

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Old 01-27-2013, 05:11 PM   #25
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How was Batman supposed to save the kid and shoot the grappling gun to save dent and save himself?
I'd guess if someone is saying he didn't need to kill Dent he could have thrown a batarang at Dent's hand whilst he was looking at his coin, or shot his grapple at Dent's hand etc

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