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Old 02-05-2013, 01:17 AM   #1
TheDevilIsMe
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Default The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

Now, I'm not a forum-type, never been on one except here, but I have lurked on a few now and then. So, bear with me if I'm long winded.

I'm not a "Star Wars" fan. I've only ever seen "A New Hope" and it didn't stick with me. However, I will watch the entire saga at some point in order to be literate on some continuity if I go see Episode VII.

I have some questions for you all - the Hype has so many well rounded users that I feel that I can pose these questions here and get good answers. I'm not involved with the fanbase, I'm on the outside looking in and have been for many years but I have a perception of the fanbase that may be incorrect. So, I have a few questions, but first - let me elaborate on my "Star Wars" background.

This may be silly of me, but I have long since been driven away from "Star Wars" because of the fans - they're terrifying, to be quite frank.

For a while growing up - I wanted to see "Star Wars" in full, having been a big "Indiana Jones" fan, at one point I wanted to see Lucas' other creation, of which was favored more-so than my archaeologist hero. However, the original films were hard to come by in their original format. I lost interest as nobody in my family had been big fans and hadn't any copies either, I kind of gave it up.

After the last Indy film came out in 2008, I finally decided to see what Lucas' other franchise was really like since my renewed love for Indy piqued my curiosity for "Star Wars" again. I eventually got the DVD of "A New Hope" and I have to say, while I admire the film's impact and influence, I wasn't terribly blown away. Most likely due to the fact that most of what I saw had been replicated since (nothing of fault on the film of course) and since I had long since been led to believe that the Original Trilogy of "Star Wars" was a massive amazing entity. Alas, I will give it another chance as I was entertained.

However, I admit the most fascinating aspect of "Star Wars" is not the series itself - but the fans. Oh boy...are they interesting and a tad frightening.

After seeing the shambles of what is the "Star Wars" fanbase, I decided to make the fanbase the subject of a paper for a film class on audience reception of films and the evolution of a franchise base. I practically went on a "Star Wars" fan-binge for about a week - reading forums, YouTube comments, essays, videos, even a documentary (People VS George Lucas) and wrote my paper. I had already read alot of vitriol from fans regarding the Prequels over the years, mind you. It was hard to escape it on the internet.

I admit - I have never quite seen a fanbase so divided, angered, upset, whiny, nitpicky, devoted, polarizing and downright crazy as I have for "Star Wars". There are genuinely nice fans, of course - not to do a disservice to them. I've met some great, nice "Star Wars" fans in my day, believe me.

But the sheer amount of venom spewed towards fellow fans for so much as giving the Prequels any credit, the vitriol towards George Lucas (you won't believe what some will write for not making better Prequels), the in-fighting in the fanbase, the whining about the merchandise and such (while they purchase it, mind you) and the insane amount of YouTube/blog rants and harping on how George Lucas "ruined my childhood". It's frightening the amount of butt-hurt.

I understand "Star Wars" is a culture, a way of life for some people. I find it odd - but I'm happy for those people. Good for them. But what I don't understand is how so much of the fanbase seems to spend so much energy on what they hate about the franchise as opposed to enjoying what they love. So many fans I've seen actually say stuff along the lines of "You like TPM? You need help so you can hate it - watch RedLetterMedia. You need to be saved." And much worse.

Seeing this fanbase being so angry and also seeing many so devoted to the point of acting a tad sheep-like, I was hesitant for a long time as a teenager to join the fanbase!


I know alot about the films, the characters and such from reading about the films over the years - but I've still yet to see five of them.

Getting to the point of this thread - my reservations regarding the "New Star Wars" is this =

1.) I fear that the new saga will open up old wounds for angry/bittered fans who have been complaining since 1999 and will only add fuel to their fire - and if I derive any enjoyment from Episode VII - I'm going to have to hear about how much of an idiot other fans think I am.
2.) They will be great films - but the fanbase will still reject them as they are not the original three.

And my biggest questions to you guys -

*What is wrong with the fanbase/why do they act this way for so many years?*

What do the majority of the fans think of the Disney deal? Lucas retiring? Are the fans really as divided/angry as I perceive them to be or is it a vocal minority? Do most fans really loathe the Prequels?

I've put this in the "Episode VII" forum because I mainly do want to know how most fans feel about the film - what is the general consensus on the idea of "New Star Wars"?

I'm just curious since I'm not a fan and haven't had the time to get the general pulse on the fanbase regarding Episode VII, thanks for any answers ahead of time.


Keep in mind - any misjudgments or any notion about the fanbase I've said is not intentional - I'm just stating how it looks looking in. Don't take offense.

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Old 02-05-2013, 01:44 AM   #2
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

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Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe View Post
Getting to the point of this thread - my reservations regarding the "New Star Wars" is this =

1.) I fear that the new saga will open up old wounds for angry/bittered fans who have been complaining since 1999 and will only add fuel to their fire - and if I derive any enjoyment from Episode VII - I'm going to have to hear about how much of an idiot other fans think I am.
2.) They will be great films - but the fanbase will still reject them as they are not the original three.
Don't forget a 3rd option, that Disney/Kennedy will be so hell-bent on moving away from the PT and close to the OT as possible, that those movies will end up bland. Or a 4th option, that the new trilogy will actually be good and what people had been wanting the PT to be all along. We can't really know how it'll go with fans. General audiences will probably like them, though.

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*What is wrong with the fanbase/why do they act this way for so many years?*
Nothing different that other franchises' fanbases, really. It's jsut that SW was such a big phenomenon and much older than most recent superhero movies' fanboys that they've actually turned cult-like.

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What do the majority of the fans think of the Disney deal? Lucas retiring? Are the fans really as divided/angry as I perceive them to be or is it a vocal minority? Do most fans really loathe the Prequels?
Cautiously optimistic, getting more and more optimistic every day. Many sighed with relief. There is real division among fans, which is key, 'cause the PT reception isn't as one-sided as one would have you think. No, most fans don't loathe the Prequels, but many were indeed underwhelmed.

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I've put this in the "Episode VII" forum because I mainly do want to know how most fans feel about the film - what is the general consensus on the idea of "New Star Wars"?
Cautious optimism and hope (for those who hated the PT. for the rest, it's pure excitement and for those few who fear a Lucasless SW trilogy, disappointment, but I'm guessing these are VERY few).

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Old 02-05-2013, 01:50 AM   #3
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

Thanks for the feedback.


I hope for the sake of the fans getting along that they can all enjoy the new film.

Perhaps "Star Wars" has a fanbase like every other - but it seems to be turned to 11 more-so than any other fanbase in terms of intensity.

Cautiously optimistic seems to be how any sequel is looked at, I suppose.

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Old 02-05-2013, 01:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

"Turned to 11"? What does that mean?

There may be a consensus regarding Ep7, not a universal opinion on the film (which is true for most films, obviously).

Cautious optimism is there for franchise starters and their sequels. 3rd movies that come after very successful Part Twos are usually anticipated with lots of excitement (see: Spider-Man 3, The Dark Knight Returns).

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Old 02-05-2013, 02:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

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"Turned to 11"?
Reference to the film "Spinal Tap" - meaning more amplified/extreme than the rest.

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Old 02-05-2013, 02:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

Ah, okay, thank you. And it's true, but like I said, I think it's due to the fact that it was a phenomenon and it had 46 years to grow. You should see some of Nolan's fanboys after TDK.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

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Ah, okay, thank you. And it's true, but like I said, I think it's due to the fact that it was a phenomenon and it had 46 years to grow. You should see some of Nolan's fanboys after TDK.
I'm a Nolan Batman Fan...and I know how Nolanites can be. Oh boy...do I know. Alot of whining when TDKR came out and alot of butt-kissing, too.

36 years, by the way! We aren't THAT old yet!

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Old 02-05-2013, 04:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

Damn, you're right. It's 2013. Pushed the wrong buttons again.

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Old 02-05-2013, 10:00 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

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Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe View Post
However, I admit the most fascinating aspect of "Star Wars" is not the series itself - but the fans. Oh boy...are they interesting and a tad frightening.
As a SW fan, i wholeheartedly agree

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Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe View Post
I admit - I have never quite seen a fanbase so divided, angered, upset, whiny, nitpicky, devoted, polarizing and downright crazy as I have for "Star Wars". There are genuinely nice fans, of course - not to do a disservice to them. I've met some great, nice "Star Wars" fans in my day, believe me.
Agreed. I thought it couldnt get worse until i started hanging out in the SHH Batman forums though. The Nolan trilogy fans scared the living heck out of me! lol. You just wait until the new Batman movies come around; things will get ugly there lol.

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But the sheer amount of venom spewed towards fellow fans for so much as giving the Prequels any credit, the vitriol towards George Lucas (you won't believe what some will write for not making better Prequels), the in-fighting in the fanbase, the whining about the merchandise and such (while they purchase it, mind you) and the insane amount of YouTube/blog rants and harping on how George Lucas "ruined my childhood". It's frightening the amount of butt-hurt.
My theory is that fans have a sense of entitlement regarding SW. It's theirs and theirs alone. They know more about it than anyone, even Lucas. And after decades of picturing how things were Lucas released the PT and it didnt go with what they thought it should be, because again, they know best. And of course, the "it" thing was to hate them and bash them, so they just joined in. In order to sound smart, it was necessary to bash the prequels, because i u enjoyed them u "have no taste", "you're stupid", "you're a Lucas apologist", "you dont know anything about movies", etc, etc lol.

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I understand "Star Wars" is a culture, a way of life for some people. I find it odd - but I'm happy for those people. Good for them. But what I don't understand is how so much of the fanbase seems to spend so much energy on what they hate about the franchise as opposed to enjoying what they love. So many fans I've seen actually say stuff along the lines of "You like TPM? You need help so you can hate it - watch RedLetterMedia. You need to be saved." And much worse.
I dont get it either. I dont waste my time on stuff i hate this much. If i dont like a film i dont spend an insane amount of time posting about how much i hate it... but hey, to each their own i guess. But to me this behaviour doesnt make sense at all. And trying to convince others how wrong they are, changing their minds or "proving" how wrong they are if they enjoy them? Yeah, mind boggling to say the least. I have fun ignoring them, i'm not interested in changing anyone's mind. Their loss if they dont like the PT, that's three less movies they enjoy lol. And this comes from someone who saw the OT on the big screen for the first time when ROTJ was released.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe View Post
my reservations regarding the "New Star Wars" is this =
1.) I fear that the new saga will open up old wounds for angry/bittered fans who have been complaining since 1999 and will only add fuel to their fire - and if I derive any enjoyment from Episode VII - I'm going to have to hear about how much of an idiot other fans think I am.
2.) They will be great films - but the fanbase will still reject them as they are not the original three.
1) Unless fans are open minded about it, i totally agree. And those most vocal will be the ones attached to post-ROTJ EU. And i know there's a lot of closed minded people, so it's inevitable there's going to be disapointment and complaining. They already know what they want to see, and when it doesnt go down like that, the whinning will pick up.
2) This will happen even if episode 7 is like The Godfather lol, get ready for it. Some hold the OT to this high standart that only exists in their mind. If they look at them objectively, they will find a lot of the flaws they nitpick about regarding the PT. But they refuse to see it. In their mind the OT is perfect, and nothing else can come close to them.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe View Post
And my biggest questions to you guys -

*What is wrong with the fanbase/why do they act this way for so many years?*
Like i said before, i believe it's a sense of entitlement. SW belongs to them, and they know it better than anyone, even its creator lol. They have their minds set to what should be, and anything outside of that is terrible. If the character/story isnt what they think should be, it's time to complain to no end lol.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe View Post
What do the majority of the fans think of the Disney deal? Lucas retiring? Are the fans really as divided/angry as I perceive them to be or is it a vocal minority? Do most fans really loathe the Prequels?
I look at this Disney deal with some optimism. It could be a good thing, but i'm still cautious about it because they could mess it up. My attitude for episode 7 is going with an extreme open mind not expecting anything; not the old characters, not anything that i've read from EU (that i think will bring the most complaining from those attached to those stories). Lucas retiring is sad to me, because i respect the heck out of the man, and despite what some think, no one knows this world better than him. I do hope he's very involved, because visually i have this concept of SW that i hope they dont move too away from, and that comes from George's vision. I do think even the biggest basher can appreciate the beauty of the planets, the vehicles, the look of the saga. And while there's a lot of designers involved (obviously!9, the one steering them was Lucas. And dont get me started with the music, because i'm a bit scared of not having Williams-Lucas collaboration... but i'm trying to not get ahead of myself.

Yes, fans are that divided: the OT purists (dont bother arguing against them), the PT lovers and those like me who enjoy all six movies. My theory is that no, most dont hate the prequels. But the ones who love to bash them are louder about it.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe View Post
I've put this in the "Episode VII" forum because I mainly do want to know how most fans feel about the film - what is the general consensus on the idea of "New Star Wars"?
There isnt a concensus at this point. Some want the EU stories post-ROTJ to appear (which in my opinion is setting themselves up for a big letdown), others want the original characters to appear, even if in a minor role. Me? Like i said before, i'm trying to keep an open mind. I do think a fresh start 50 years into the future would be the right way to go. Close enough to the OT but far away enough for a fresh set of characters and stories.

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Keep in mind - any misjudgments or any notion about the fanbase I've said is not intentional - I'm just stating how it looks looking in. Don't take offense.
No offense taken lol.

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Old 02-05-2013, 10:23 AM   #10
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First, Star Wars is probably the biggest franchise/universe out there. So saying you've never seen a fanbase like this is actually a fault I'd say. There are fans/division like this in almost every fanbase, it's just they are not as large to garner any attention of this magnitude. Batman, Superman, Spider-man, Marvel, DC ect ect, Indy and thousands of anime franchises are like this. Star Wars fans may be no different it's just a larger group so we are noticed much easier. You can go on Youtube about Batman, from Nolan stuff to Schumacher love ect ect.

So having said that, yes there is a division.

The PT has lost it's popularity over the years. If you want to know my personal story I first watched the OT in '88, saw the PT at every midnight showing. I remember I was stoked and in heaven when the PT was released. I liked the films, but I admit even as a 14 year old when Episode I was first released, I was disappointed, I personally was in denial. I remember I was really bored with Episode I, and would just go back to the Duel of the Fates and go: "Cool huh!" But there was something amiss. With Episode II I remember knowing that George had cut Jar Jar almost out of it, no longer was Anakin a kid, and I figured the man was rusty and Episode I was just a first attempt, and Episode II was going to be epic. With Episode II I actually was very angry, but hyped so many people up I felt if I admitted I did not like it they would laugh at me. So I kinda just hid it from my friends. With Episode III I was not as hyped, watched it, it was much better but I still remember not feeling it. Then in like 2006 I had a marathon, after watching the PT with a friend we looked at eachother, and I finally came clean, I just told him I never really liked it, the hype swooped me up. I felt that I can't "hate" something Star Wars. As time went on I realized that I did not care for it. So I really kinda lost some of my fandom to a point. When RLM's reviews came out it really said in words what was wrong with the PT to me. But it sadden me. George said he was giving Lucasfilm to Katie when he is gone, and she said there will never be any new films made.

Fast forward to early October 2012 my friend and I both massive Star Wars fans started to talk about the franchise. And we both honestly depressed each other. We knew there was never going to be any new films, and the PT was such a let down to us, we felt like it just would not get any better. Then by surprise a friend on Facebook weeks later on October 30th 2012 announced the news and the rest is history. It fully brought my fandom back, and for many reasons it continues to grow.

The problem many of us had, and was honestly a problem even for most that loved it, is the execution of the PT was not the best, I've said it a million times so I'll keep it brief, it was poor film making to many, and simply that. Star Wars has a much higher standard, and these films were mediocre. And we learned more about George Lucas and some of his past, and more so that he himself has stated a ton that he is a terrible writer and hates it, and is a terrible character director/actors director. Which were all the problems of the PT.

With this new one, I'd say the majority of fans are very much looking forward to Episode VII. Honestly the only ones I've seen some flak from is hard core PT fans. If you go to The Force.net which is a haven for many PT supporters, you will see tons of people saying Star Wars (1977-2012) indicating that without George it already sucks. (In my personal opinion I think many hardcore PT fans are deathly afraid that they know with the talent behind Epsidoe VII we most likely will get a much superior film, and something that will be (for the most part) universally loved. Then it will make defending the PT that much harder, as some have said it could make the PT be seen as the Roger Moore era of Bond) I think some of them are afraid that it will be harder to make their point when a really good character director/actor director like JJ and a superb Oscar award winning writer like Michael Ardt create Episode VII.

But for the most part I think everyone is actually really optimistic, there is always worry but I think that goes with any film ever made. But for me it has been like a revitalizing event. Star Wars is back to me, and I have this feeling Episode VII will be huge. I will bet this will be one film that the majority of the fans will unite with and agree it is something that they all like.

I just don't think any of the bad things will happen with Episode VII, honestly there will always be people that dislike something, there will be OT/PT extremists that just don't want to like anything else but again that is with all fandom. But I think these films unlike the PT will really unite the majority of us in agreement.

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:47 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

I'm a pretty big star wars fan, I love the prequel trilogy and I'm pretty excited for the new movies

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:52 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

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I've only ever seen "A New Hope" and it didn't stick with me. However, I will watch the entire saga at some point in order to be literate on some continuity if I go see Episode VII.
I pretty much stopped ready after this.

How can you write a paper on a fanbase with seeing only one of the films? How can you gain any amount of perspective and context, and therefore accuracy, if you haven't even seen 5 out of the 6 films?

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Old 02-05-2013, 01:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

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Getting to the point of this thread - my reservations regarding the "New Star Wars" is this =

1.) I fear that the new saga will open up old wounds for angry/bittered fans who have been complaining since 1999 and will only add fuel to their fire - and if I derive any enjoyment from Episode VII - I'm going to have to hear about how much of an idiot other fans think I am.
For one thing you said it yourself you haven't seen the three prequels. I for one loved them when I was a child, I went to the midnight premiere of III when I was in the 8th grade! However, having seen better movies and grown up since then I can recognize these were pretty bad movies. One of the most frustrating things about them was how blatantly Lucas used them for cash grabs to make toys and how he put characters in from the originals that really had no purpose in the film besides to be there. I kid you not there is a ten year old Boba Fett in Episode II and all he does is run around and be ten. Chewbacca is also in Episode III for about 30 seconds and all he does is stand in the background and again I kid you not, give Yoda a piggyback ride.

Not to mention the original films all had practical sets that felt real and inspired a lot of off hand lines from the actors. Since everyone was just looking at a bunch of completely blue rooms there isn't as much room too act and the performances are disappointing to even a bit odd as they may not realize what they are looking at.

Another big complaint people had with the prequels was the portrayal of young Darth Vader, we see him as again a ten year old in Episode I and he accidentally flies around in a space ship and accidentally blows up the villains ship at the end. Pretty weak and the kid they got to play him was horrible. In Episode II he has the most forced and awkward on screen romance I think I've ever seen and he's played by Hayden Christensen who acts like a piece of wood. Episode III was a turn in the right direction but he's still very wooden and some of his choices and actions are very illogical.

We see almost nothing of the villains and they are barely developed. Where we had space Nazis and cyborgs as villains in the originals we have robots and trade organizations.

I could really go on but there are quite a few legitimate reasons why the people dislike the prequels. As for the hate on Lucas, he had some awful ideas for the originals, luke was supposed to be an old man, han was a fat blue alien, and the title was about nine or ten words long (Diary of the whills Chapter One The Star Wars). However Lucas had limitations from the studio and those he worked with who helped him refine his ideas into what we got. However when he made the prequels he surrounded himself by yes men and owning his own production company, had no one to tell him no. So he continuous put out brilliant ideas but executed them in the weirdest and worst way possible.

He also did QUITE a bit of pandering to the kids. You'll understand when you watch them what I mean by that one.

Quote:
2.) They will be great films - but the fanbase will still reject them as they are not the original three.
Theres always a few of those with every franchize but if the movies are good they'll be generally favorably received. Keep in mind expectations are going to be VERY low from these fans you so fear.

Quote:
And my biggest questions to you guys -

*What is wrong with the fanbase/why do they act this way for so many years?*
Disappointment, frustration, and the fact that a lot of stuff from the prequels negatively effects the originals. Darth Vader especially has lost a lot of his mystique and presence he carried before. Most of the anger at Lucas comes from his general stance that they are "his movies and he can do as he likes with them".

Quote:
What do the majority of the fans think of the Disney deal? Lucas retiring? Are the fans really as divided/angry as I perceive them to be or is it a vocal minority? Do most fans really loathe the Prequels?
Yeah the fans are very divided about the prequels. All of the die hard prequel loathers will tell you most fans hate them and all of the big prequel fanboys will tell you most of us love them. The problem is theres no real way to gauge it. Theres plenty of evidence for both sides it usually turns into a "shirt color/shoes" argument every time this topic comes up. On the same note the fan base is very divided by the Disney buyout; some feel Star Wars can only work with George, some feel the films are lost forever, some don't understand Disney makes adult movies too, etc.


Last edited by BenKenobi; 02-05-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:20 PM   #14
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For one thing you said it yourself you haven't seen the three prequels. I for one loved them when I was a child, I went to the midnight premiere of III when I was in the 8th grade! However, having seen better movies and grown up since then I can recognize these were pretty bad movies. One of the most frustrating things about them was how blatantly Lucas used them for cash grabs to make toys and how he put characters in from the originals that really had no purpose in the film besides to be there. I kid you not there is a ten year old Boba Fett in Episode II and all he does is run around and be ten. Chewbacca is also in Episode III for about 30 seconds and all he does is stand in the background and again I kid you not, give Yoda a piggyback ride.

Not to mention the original films all had practical sets that felt real and inspired a lot of off hand lines from the actors. Since everyone was just looking at a bunch of completely blue rooms there isn't as much room too act and the performances are disappointing to even a bit odd as they may not realize what they are looking at.

Another big complaint people had with the prequels was the portrayal of young Darth Vader, we see him as again a ten year old in Episode I and he accidentally flies around in a space ship and accidentally blows up the villains ship at the end. Pretty weak and the kid they got to play him was horrible. In Episode II he has the most forced and awkward on screen romance I think I've ever seen and he's played by Hayden Christensen who acts like a piece of wood. Episode III was a turn in the right direction but he's still very wooden and some of his choices and actions are very illogical.

We see almost nothing of the villains and they are barely developed. Where we had space Nazis and cyborgs as villains in the originals we have robots and trade organizations.

I could really go on but there are quite a few legitimate reasons why the people dislike the prequels. As for the hate on Lucas, he had some awful ideas for the originals, luke was supposed to be an old man, han was a fat blue alien, and the title was about nine or ten words long (Diary of the whills Chapter One The Star Wars). However Lucas had limitations from the studio and those he worked with who helped him refine his ideas into what we got. However when he made the prequels he surrounded himself by yes men and owning his own production company, had no one to tell him no. So he continuous put out brilliant ideas but executed them in the weirdest and worst way possible.

He also did QUITE a bit of pandering to the kids. You'll understand when you watch them what I mean by that one.



Theres always a few of those with every franchize but if the movies are good they'll be generally favorably received. Keep in mind expectations are going to be VERY low from these fans you so fear.



Disappointment, frustration, and the fact that a lot of stuff from the prequels negatively effects the originals. Darth Vader especially has lost a lot of his mystique and presence he carried before. Most of the anger at Lucas comes from his general stance that they are "his movies and he can do as he likes with them".



Yeah the fans are very divided about the prequels. All of the die hard prequel loathers will tell you most fans hate them and all of the big prequel fanboys will tell you most of us love them. The problem is theres no real way to gauge it. Theres plenty of evidence for both sides it usually turns into a "shirt color/shoes" argument every time this topic comes up. On the same note the fan base is very divided by the Disney buyout; some feel Star Wars can only work with George, some feel the films are lost forever, some don't understand Disney makes adult movies too, etc.
I agree with most of this except the part in bold. I think some are weary of it. But as I said in my post above I think I've noticed more PT fans (that usually are very protective of George Lucas) are the ones that are unsure for multiple reasons I stated above. Some think that it is just kid movies, but a lot of fans are nerdy like us, and they know that Disney owns Marvel, helped create The Avengers ect. So we know they will take good care of Lucasfilm. However, I will say that the GA and more casual fans, they don't know, but honestly I don't think they care. I've heard somethings, but nothing extreme or frightening about Disney's acquiring them.

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Old 02-05-2013, 09:35 PM   #15
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I agree with most of this except the part in bold. I think some are weary of it. But as I said in my post above I think I've noticed more PT fans (that usually are very protective of George Lucas) are the ones that are unsure for multiple reasons I stated above. Some think that it is just kid movies, but a lot of fans are nerdy like us, and they know that Disney owns Marvel, helped create The Avengers ect. So we know they will take good care of Lucasfilm. However, I will say that the GA and more casual fans, they don't know, but honestly I don't think they care. I've heard somethings, but nothing extreme or frightening about Disney's acquiring them.
I haven't heard anything too bad either on the web, just some off hand comments from idiots in person while it was still big news (trending on twitter and what not). Anyway reading your post I think we're pretty much on the same page. The feelings on the prequels are mixed to negative and the feelings on the sequels are indifferent to excited depending on who you ask.

We're both pretty deep in the nerd community if we're on these boards and have names like Sidious and BenKenobi. I think it's safe to say we know what we're talking about lol.

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Old 02-05-2013, 08:01 PM   #16
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Once again, I agree with you Solidus.

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:15 PM   #17
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In a nutshell: "It's not OT, therefore it sucks."

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:24 PM   #18
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@Spider-Who =

In all honesty - I figured not being a fan meant I had no bias in which part in the fanbase I'd cover more or less. Not being a fan or not having seen the films allowed me to be more objective to the fanbase's viewpoints and behavior.

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:59 PM   #19
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@Spider-Who =

In all honesty - I figured not being a fan meant I had no bias in which part in the fanbase I'd cover more or less. Not being a fan or not having seen the films allowed me to be more objective to the fanbase's viewpoints and behavior.
You can't judge something you don't understand though. You made several claims and assumptions. Your questions imply you believe the fan base is being overly critical of the prequels when you haven't seen them and therefore wouldn't be able to accurately assess that. It's basically like judging people for feeling strongly over a law you know nothing about, it could be a bunch of nuts or they could have some valid points.

You seem to have confused unbiased with uneducated (no offense intended just couldn't find a better word), unbiased would be more along the lines of not being particularly invested of any of them but having seen them.

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Old 02-06-2013, 12:09 AM   #20
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You can't judge something you don't understand though. You made several claims and assumptions. Your questions imply you believe the fan base is being overly critical of the prequels when you haven't seen them and therefore wouldn't be able to accurately assess that. It's basically like judging people for feeling strongly over a law you know nothing about, it could be a bunch of nuts or they could have some valid points.

You seem to have confused unbiased with uneducated (no offense intended just couldn't find a better word), unbiased would be more along the lines of not being particularly invested of any of them but having seen them.
I do have to agree with this again as well. You can't understand where we are coming from even a little bit until you see them. I would finish the OT since you started with it, then watch the PT, watch them in terms of release as most of us did.

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Old 02-06-2013, 12:12 AM   #21
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You can't judge something you don't understand though. You made several claims and assumptions. Your questions imply you believe the fan base is being overly critical of the prequels when you haven't seen them and therefore wouldn't be able to accurately assess that. It's basically like judging people for feeling strongly over a law you know nothing about, it could be a bunch of nuts or they could have some valid points.

You seem to have confused unbiased with uneducated (no offense intended just couldn't find a better word), unbiased would be more along the lines of not being particularly invested of any of them but having seen them.
That was the point - to show what a non-fan sees from the outside looking in.

Overly critical - nowhere did I say that was wrong or unfounded. I implied the hyperbole and sheer amount of vitriol is unusual.

There is a difference between feeling strongly - and what some Star Wars fans act like.

People write books about the extremism of religion in general even though they've never practiced that religion. To cover Muslim extremism you have to be literate in the stories, literature, doctrines and such - kind of like I am with Star Wars (I know the stories, characters, fan's issues, Lucas' issues, the synopsis (beginning/middle/end of each film) and I read up on each film extensively and the controversy. I just didn't see them to keep my opinion on the films out of the equation since I side with nobody. You don't have to watch them to write about how fans behave. Should I have watched them? Sure. But I wouldn't say it was a must-do to write about how fans behave in general.

I wasn't going on an attack on those who dislike the Prequels or have issues - I was talking about the ones who are insanely angry to the point of obsession and derision to other fans.


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Old 02-06-2013, 12:18 AM   #22
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That was the point - to show what a non-fan sees from the outside looking in.

Overly critical - nowhere did I say that was wrong or unfounded. I implied the hyperbole and sheer amount of vitriol is unusual.

There is a difference between feeling strongly - and what some Star Wars fans act like.
Most fan bases have extremism like this. And a lot of franchises have fractures at times (many different proportions) Because these forums alone show massive amounts of hyperbole and vitriol. And I've been active in forums for 18 years. And they all have this kind of thing. No matter the fan base there is tons of extremists and people screaming back and forth at one another. Hell during 2007 it was Burton Vs Nolan stuff all the time. Or Marvel vs. DC some would discuss some would go overboard ect ect.

To me you are making a point that Star Wars fans are the only ones that act like this. To say that is just wrong. Star Wars is the biggest fan base in fiction so it may seem louder because of the sheer amounts. But I'd say there are many franchises where there is division, split from every which way.

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Old 02-06-2013, 07:43 AM   #23
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@Spider-Who =

In all honesty - I figured not being a fan meant I had no bias in which part in the fanbase I'd cover more or less. Not being a fan or not having seen the films allowed me to be more objective to the fanbase's viewpoints and behavior.
I don't have too much more to add since the others have said a lot, but I'm surprised you aren't a little more familiar with a fan base like this since you mentioned getting back into Indy in '08. KOTCS is probably right up there with the prequels, and maybe Superman Returns, for films that were anticipated but ended up hated. And by hated, I mean that it, like the prequels, was a successful film, but there was of course four different sides to that. There was of course, the two sides to the general audience, both likely only vocal to their friends on if they liked it or not. Then came the normal fanbase, whom had the vocal ones defending it, but as always, the ones who hated it came out as the loudest, and once again Lucas was in the spotlight as a hack who can't pull of good cinema anymore (because, y aknow, Speilberg still gets a pass. :eyeroll Hell, I have probably heard an equal amount of whining on that one movie alone and how it ruined Indy and killed childhoods, etc as I did any one of the prequels.

I do think though, in regards to the prequels, there was alot of people who saw one of them, mostly TPM of course, and after that wouldn't ever actually let themselves enjoy the other films upon release. I've ehard some opinions change, I've heard some get worse.

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Old 02-06-2013, 08:29 AM   #24
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...but I'm surprised you aren't a little more familiar with a fan base like this since you mentioned getting back into Indy in '08. KOTCS is probably right up there with the prequels, and maybe Superman Returns, for films that were anticipated but ended up hated.
You've mentioned Indy - now get ready for a long winded post from me. (Disclaimer - I'm not a huge die hard of Indy, I don't have any merchandise and only watch any of these films maybe once a year if that, so even though I may come across as being a devoted fan, I'm just a casual with alot to say regarding the topic since I read alot about the films in 2008.)

I didn't care for KOTCS - but then again I'm not a Temple of Doom fan either.

The Indiana Jones Fan-Base is a fraction of the size and scale compared to Star Wars or even Superman - and alot smaller on the intensity.

As far as KOTCS goes, it is nowhere near the infamy of the Prequels or on the hate-scale. KOTCS was a smash though - becoming the biggest film of 2008 box office wise on the globe (TDK took the US) - and I remember people on the net generally liking it despite not being worth a 20 year wait (and most people I knew) other than a few hyperbolic complainers on the net until about October of that year - and when South Park parodied the film and the reactions of some fans - that's when the hate took over the internet. I saw it 3 times just to see if I could like it (I did not) and each time the audience applauded at the end each time and had a great time and DVDs sold like crazy.

When you hear about Lucas-hate, you never really hear anyone mention KOTCS. It's always about the Prequels, Howard the Duck or what have you being the reason he is 'terrible' now. While this doesn't mean they really liked the film, it simply indicates the lesser degree of disliking, if any.

Infamy on some internet comment circles doesn't indicate a hated film by a fanbase or general population, I say.

I'd say those that speak loudest in the Indy fanbase argue whether Temple of Doom or Kingdom of the Crystal Skull were any good - but again, that doesn't speak for a majority. Statistically, KOTCS was the most positively received Indy film at the time of its release (Last Crusade got mixed reviews upon release in 1989, and Temple of Doom got alot of backlash for being a poor follow up to Raiders and for its racism in 1984).

Kingdom fared tenfold better with critics and audiences than the Prequel Trilogy. Putting how I feel aside about the film...I see a few make the mistake on insinuating that people don't like it or that it fared poorly.

Indy IV -

-RottenTomatoes - 78%/User Score of 3.6
-7.0 IMDB
-MovieWeb Fan/Critic Accumulated - 82% and a 3.8 "Great" score.
-CinemaScore= B+
-MetaCritic Score - 65
-4/5 NetFlix score
-AICN - Great reviews, Harry's was particularly glowing.
-Yahoo! Movies User Score - 4/5 Stars/B+
-BoxOfficeMojo Surveys - 41% gave it an A, 37%; B.
-MovieFone - 3/5 Critics/Audiences
-Empire Magazine's Top 500 Films of All Time
-MovieWeb - 83% Critic(284 reviews) - 3.8 User (Great)
-SlashFilmSurvey - 54,356 polled, 83% voted 'loved it'
-Featured in 4 Top Critics' Best of 2008
-#7 Best Selling DVD In America - 2008.
-Indiana Jones FanForum (TheRaven.net) Poll 2008 - 1,367 Users Poll - 85% Rated 7 or Higher


I'd say the jury is in on that film. I'm not in agreement with it, but the jury's been in for 5 years (jeez, has 2008 been that long? ).

The internet commenting community has a tendency to make a film look like it's actively despised through comment sections being taken over by those that dislike it (The Dark Knight Rises is having a bout of this with negative internet buzz about it being a blah film, and it reminded me of late 2008 against KOTCS). But we have to realize...those that bicker and complain in comments sections are such a small micro-fraction of a minority. They truly are. I mean, I'm being told lately by people online that The Dark Knight Rises was vastly disliked by fans/general film-goers as a whole - they're trying to hijack reality since they disliked it.

But if you stay on the Indy forums, Facebook, YouTube and the like - you don't see all that much hatred for KOTCS or really much of anything and when you do, it's down-voted by the people who are sick of hearing about it from the same people.

Me? I choose not to talk about the film unless someone asks me about it. I don't want to waste time complaining about something I didn't care for. Same with Temple of Doom.

I did go to the AMC Indiana Jones Marathon in September 2012 - and so did a few I know in other states and I saw a few on the net say that "Everyone will leave after Last Crusade!!!!" - and lo and behold...nobody in my theater left nor did anyone else in any other state that I read about reported such a thing happening. Packed houses of 200+ people and the reports came in that attendence was full through all the films and that Last Crusade/Kingdom of the Crystal Skull got the best audience reception. Raiders of the Lost Ark (surprisingly...) got the least of applause. The guys who hate KOTCS were shocked that people had a great time with all the films because they forget that the whiners of the internet aren't even a fraction of the general film-going audience who watch these films.

Another instance was on a drive to where I was moving to, I stopped by the Nat. Geo. Indiana Jones Exhibit in Los Angeles, as well. It was right off the exit so I figured "Why not?" I was stopping for the night anyway. And all four films had a huge exhibit, and KOTCS had the largest and not surprisingly...no KOTCS haters to be found. Just a ton of people and die hard fans having a great time and gushing over the set-use props and film memorabilia.

And believe it or not...the Crystal Skeleton on the Throne from KOTCS was the most popular part of the exhibit. Everyone got a photo of that thing. Even I admit that thing was very impressive in person.

I don't think the fanbase of Indy is nearly as divided as Star Wars fans are. KOTCS didn't do much damage to us, if any. We're generally less invested mainly because Indy is a different entity - not nearly as large as Star Wars.

I'm trying to like that film so I'm not a Debbie Downer, but oh well!


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Old 02-06-2013, 09:17 AM   #25
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<rant>
Fair enough, and maybe its that I'm mroe involved in Star Wars. But, from personal experience, I can't help but ever hear hate for KOTCS. Go hunt down the old Indy IV thread here, you might see what I mean. That said, I like dKOTCS, and most of my friends did too. In fact, the friends of mine that hate the Prequels enjoyed KOTCS. But in several internet circles, I happen to have seen a large amount of hate, and most of it can be summed up in one word: Aliens.

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