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Old 06-11-2013, 05:25 PM   #1
mclay18
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Default Are your Civil Liberties Under Attack? Discussion

I'm surprised no one's started a thread about him.

So, what do you think? Traitor or constitutional hero?

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Old 06-11-2013, 05:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

He's a real American hero. The ultimate act of patriotism is standing up when your government is doing something immoral.America was founded on that principal. Our government is doing some terrible things both here at home and overseas and it needs to stop. It won't stop unless more people do what Edward Snowden has done. Anyone who thinks he's a traitor is a poop head.

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Old 06-11-2013, 06:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

I don't think he deserves to be labeled as a traitor either. But by outing himself from the get-go, he won't be able to live the rest of his life normally (like 'Deep Throat' did). He'll be either looking over his shoulder constantly, even in a country without an extradition treaty with the U.S..

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Old 06-11-2013, 06:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

Oh Putin....

http://www.newsmaxworld.com/Europe/r...6/11/id/509255

Russia would *consider* giving Mr. Snowden Asylum.

In other words, ratings grab for RT America.

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Old 06-11-2013, 06:54 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

a dropout who managed to get a decent paying job (not to mention girlfriend) in hawaii. threw it all away for fame. complete narcissist.

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Old 06-11-2013, 07:17 PM   #6
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a dropout who managed to get a decent paying job (not to mention girlfriend) in hawaii. threw it all away for fame. complete narcissist.
Yes, because having to leave all of his loved ones behind and move to a foreign country and be under constant fear of being arrested and/or assassinated is something people do when they want to be famous.


I was, by the way, being completely sarcastic there. There's no way he did what he did just to get famous, that is a completely absurd notion.

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Old 06-11-2013, 07:43 PM   #7
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Yes, because having to leave all of his loved ones behind and move to a foreign country and be under constant fear of being arrested and/or assassinated is something people do when they want to be famous.


I was, by the way, being completely sarcastic there. There's no way he did what he did just to get famous, that is a completely absurd notion.
he's a coward and a criminal. and fleeing is exactly what someone like him would do. it keeps him in the press; makes him seem like a tragic victim. him being a "hero" is a completely absurd notion. it's what happens when people watch too many summer blockbusters.

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Old 06-11-2013, 08:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

I'm pretty sure 'Deep Throat' would've left the country, had he outed himself as the guy who broke the Watergate scandal as it happened.

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Old 06-11-2013, 08:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

i don't need either one of you to agree with me.

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Old 06-11-2013, 08:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

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i don't need either one of you to agree with me.
So you're just going to completely side step my questions.

Okay, that's cool.

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Old 06-11-2013, 09:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

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I'm surprised no one's started a thread about him.

So, what do you think? Traitor or constitutional hero?
That remains to be seen. Right now he is a traitor. But if Americans turn on Obama's policies he could become a hero.

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Old 06-12-2013, 01:50 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

Certainly he has courage. As an Australian I am shocked at how much the American govt polices its citizens, so I would certainly call him heroic in that regard. I've never been comfortable with the idea that someone is a traitor in anything other than legalities when it comes to protesting the actions of a government. Your nation celebrates its founding on actions such as this (even if the oppressive aspect of Britain is overplayed in American culture as far as I can tell).

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Old 06-12-2013, 02:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

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Certainly he has courage. As an Australian I am shocked at how much the American govt polices its citizens, so I would certainly call him heroic in that regard. I've never been comfortable with the idea that someone is a traitor in anything other than legalities when it comes to protesting the actions of a government. Your nation celebrates its founding on actions such as this (even if the oppressive aspect of Britain is overplayed in American culture as far as I can tell).
You mean how its no different than any other government in the world? Each government does things to protect its citizens as it sees fit and sometimes they may seem a bit extreme. Is what the US Government possibly overstepping its bounds? Yes. But is doing what Snowden did to expose it the right way? Probably not. His status to me is he's sort of both a whistleblower and a criminal. He shined light on a classified surveillance program that may have not been run in the best way but he also broke into a government office he worked at to hack in and steal documents he wasn't allowed to have. Until this thing plays out more, I don't know if I want to commend him more or want him prosecuted.

As far as how much information the government was gathering on citizens, it's quite a bit less than what people allow private corporations allow to collect when sending emails, shopping online, or posting on social networks. Only difference is those corporations don't have power to arrest you while the government does; that's why people are so upset over it. To act like the government spying and snooping is something new then many are pretty uninformed or naive. I've always assumed, after 9/11 and the Patriot Act, that the US Government was spying on its citizenry to protect from terrorist plots from both home and abroad, just like they were doing during the Cold War to protect against communism. They've just got an easier time with most everyone putting all this information out there without thinking of the repercussions of doing so.


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Old 06-12-2013, 07:47 PM   #14
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You mean how its no different than any other government in the world? Each government does things to protect its citizens as it sees fit and sometimes they may seem a bit extreme. Is what the US Government possibly overstepping its bounds? Yes.
Hence the 'how much' in my post. You seem to be boxing shadow arguments if you think I said my government doesn't. I'm saying yours is on another level entirely, on the heels of the Patriot Act, warrantless searches, spying, etcetera. I'm deeply afraid when Abbott gets in he'll try something similar, though certainly the extremes America goes to wouldn't really fly here due to cultural differences.

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Old 06-12-2013, 09:32 PM   #15
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Obviously this isn't the norm. Unless you used to live in the Soviet Bloc, this isn't business as usual. This is government intrusion on an unprecedented scale.

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Old 06-20-2013, 05:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

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Originally Posted by Two-Face=Badass View Post
Certainly he has courage. As an Australian I am shocked at how much the American govt polices its citizens, so I would certainly call him heroic in that regard. I've never been comfortable with the idea that someone is a traitor in anything other than legalities when it comes to protesting the actions of a government. Your nation celebrates its founding on actions such as this (even if the oppressive aspect of Britain is overplayed in American culture as far as I can tell).
You are aware that pretty much every Western government is attempting to do this in some form. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually more government surveillance programs from Great Britain to France to Australia are exposed.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:45 PM   #17
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You are aware that pretty much every Western government is attempting to do this in some form. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually more government surveillance programs from Great Britain to France to Australia are exposed.
I do not deny my government does some shady stuff, but these 'they're all the same' arguments need to stop. It is clear that America's government has gone above and beyond other western nations in taking away privacy and removing rights: Guantamano Bay, the PATRIOT Act, NSA surveillance, TSA, warrantless searches.

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Old 06-20-2013, 07:01 PM   #18
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I do not deny my government does some shady stuff, but these 'they're all the same' arguments need to stop. It is clear that America's government has gone above and beyond other western nations in taking away privacy and removing rights: Guantamano Bay, the PATRIOT Act, NSA surveillance, TSA, warrantless searches.
Actually they're all just as bad as the United States. The United Kingdom and Australia were cooperative with the US with Guantanamo Bay. The UK, France, and Australia all have instances if warrantless searches, anti-terror laws and surveillance laws on par with the US. And Australia is actually working with the NSA to implement surveillance apparatuses. There is a massive load of cooperation between the Western governments on this issue and to just accuse the United States for being the most guilty when they're all equally guilty is just well...wrong. It's just criticizing the United States just for the sake of criticism.

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Old 06-12-2013, 07:27 AM   #19
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

I don't think he's a traitor, nor do I think he's a patriot. I think there are people that he could have gone to to help him do this properly. So, to me he's just pretty stupid.

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Old 06-12-2013, 02:38 PM   #20
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I don't think he's a traitor, nor do I think he's a patriot. I think there are people that he could have gone to to help him do this properly. So, to me he's just pretty stupid.
Yeah. They could've done the usual silhouetted interview with his face in shadow and his voice distorted to protect his identity.

Don't know why he didn't do that.

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Old 06-12-2013, 02:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

Probably because people wouldn't take him seriously.

Silhouetted figures don't have much credibility.

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Old 06-12-2013, 03:15 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

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Yeah. They could've done the usual silhouetted interview with his face in shadow and his voice distorted to protect his identity.

Don't know why he didn't do that.
No, I was thinking more of getting a lawyer that has worked in areas like this, I just saw one interviewed the other day. He just needed someone that had the best interest of the country AND Snowden in mind rather than just a reporter that wanted a story.

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Old 06-12-2013, 09:14 AM   #23
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Default Re: The Edward Snowden thread

And he's trying to avoid capture by going to Hong Kong? He must be the only computer nerd in the world who's never seen The Dark Knight.

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Old 06-12-2013, 01:12 PM   #24
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And he's trying to avoid capture by going to Hong Kong? He must be the only computer nerd in the world who's never seen The Dark Knight.
Must be the only person who thought a place controlled by China is a place that won't spy on him either or doesn't have their own government that censors/disappears people for stuff done online.

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Old 06-12-2013, 03:15 PM   #25
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And he's trying to avoid capture by going to Hong Kong? He must be the only computer nerd in the world who's never seen The Dark Knight.
He's no longer in Hong Kong, he is in China I believe now.

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