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Old 06-23-2013, 02:40 PM   #1
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

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Old 06-23-2013, 02:40 PM   #2
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Default What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

Well, now that the film has premiered it's time to get into the dirty little details. While many people love Man of Steel (especially on this board), there are many others whose expectations were not met, who have things they would change, or outright hate the film. This is not a place for a "You're wrong, I'm right!" argument to break out, rather, it's for those who feel unfulfilled by what they saw and and would ultimately change things given the chance.

Personally, I would give Man of Steel a 7/10 upon my first viewing. It's not a horrible film, but it definitely did not live up the advertising which had been created for it, nor did it live up to my hope of having a legitimately inventive and exciting beginning of a DC Shared Universe, unlike Iron Man. Here are some nits, picks, and complaints to get us started off.

-The opening shot of Kal El being born is gorgeous, and a genuinely fantastic way to begin this saga, especially since so much of it hinges on the idea of natural, not genetically manipulated birth. However, the Krypton scenes that follow border on nonsensical and way too rushed. If we had just had maybe one or two scenes prior to the council scene, establishing Jor El and General Zod as genuine allies with one tragic difference in world views, it would have given so much more weight to the Jor El's death, Zod's incarceration, and the destruction of Krypton. Ultimately it just feels like one rushed action setpiece to the next, setting up the very plotty MacGuffin in the Codex. Say what you want about the original Superman's version of Krypton, the silly outfits and fake looking sets, Donner gives it mournful pace and a wonderful, wise Jor El in Marlon Brando who really sells the importance of the moment. TELLING rather than SHOWING is generally a big complaint I have about David Goyer's script.

-Our first time spent with Clark. Again, the entire sequence on the boat is so, so rushed and could have been used to show us who Clark is at the beginning of the story, rather than an excuse for a setpiece. What if we had a couple scenes on the boat with Clark interacting with the crew, sharing stories, making jokes, just having a simple conversation? The human element felt very lost in Man of Steel, and scenes where we get a clearer sense of the man Clark has become would have been great peppered throughout his beginning journey. Also, the actual oil rig destruction itself was a let down as a setpiece. It was basically 30 seconds of Clark holding up something heavy. I'm not asking for a MASSIVE action scene here, but every bit of action should progress as a story, with a beginning, middle, and end. This was one long note without any variance.

-This is skipping ahead quite a bit, but the outfit reveal. It's presented to Clark without any explanation, and it comes after a massive info dump of exposition by Jor El. And then almost immediately after, he is suddenly in the suit and bouncing around. Clark has no reaction to seeing the suit, wearing it, anything. It's simply something he has to put on now, thanks Dad! It should be treated as mythic, like Jason acquiring the Golden Fleece. Even Green Lantern handled Hal Jordan getting the ring and "becoming" a costumed superhero better. Batman Begins had 20 minutes of buildup, with Bruce slowing building his suit and then the dock fight hidden in shadows, building up to his "I'm Batman" headbutt. The whole transition of Clark Kent to Superman wasn't handled particularly well, but I think missing this moment is endemic of the problems with the whole movie.

I have many more floating around in my head, but I thought I'd start off the conversation and maybe pepper them in as people post. Again, this is not meant as a hatefest, merely a place to vent frustrations. Better luck in 2015, Superman (aka, please give David Goyer something else besides Man of Steel 2 to do).

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Old 06-23-2013, 02:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

"My son was IN the bus, he saw what Clark did"

Um no, her son was drowning underwater and had to be saved by Clark so how did he see what he did?

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Old 06-23-2013, 02:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

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I have many more floating around in my head, but I thought I'd start off the conversation and maybe pepper them in as people post. Again, this is not meant as a hatefest, merely a place to vent frustrations. Better luck in 2015, Superman (aka, please give David Goyer something else besides Man of Steel 2 to do).
Agree 100% on the suit thing.

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Old 06-23-2013, 03:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

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Well, now that the film has premiered it's time to get into the dirty little details. While many people love Man of Steel (especially on this board), there are many others whose expectations were not met, who have things they would change, or outright hate the film. This is not a place for a "You're wrong, I'm right!" argument to break out, rather, it's for those who feel unfulfilled by what they saw and and would ultimately change things given the chance.

I have many more floating around in my head, but I thought I'd start off the conversation and maybe pepper them in as people post. Again, this is not meant as a hatefest, merely a place to vent frustrations. Better luck in 2015, Superman (aka, please give David Goyer something else besides Man of Steel 2 to do).
I can understand most of these complaints. I often watch films and imagine little tweeks that would have made all the difference.

How did you find Superman Returns? Seems like these are flaws that were carried over from that picture in some ways. From "Suit reveal", the "conversational protagonist", inventive kryptonian elements..etc.
Thinking about it, I've never actually seen a suit reveal handled with as much energy as Lois&Clark.

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Old 06-23-2013, 03:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

I didn't love the suit reveal. Where'd it come from how did it fit Clark so well. Was someone from the House of El one of the people on the ship and that's why his suit was there?

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Old 06-23-2013, 03:36 PM   #7
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I didn't love the suit reveal. Where'd it come from how did it fit Clark so well. Was someone from the House of El one of the people on the ship and that's why his suit was there?
Jor El explained it was the El's that led the expeditions to other worlds so I think that's a good explanation as to why there'd be a suit there. Also it was different to Jor El's and had a cape attached so maybe that was an earlier suit worn by El's in the past. As for the fit its alien maybe it adapts to your physiology, that's not so hard to but when you look at the tech Kryptonians use.

Also on Modern Myth Meda one if them came up with a great explanation that the suit would be a formal wear for them to wear when meeting with leaders if other worlds etc.

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Old 06-23-2013, 04:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

It's pretty sad that Chris Reeve did more with the first suited up scene in 15 seconds,than MOS did with 3 or 4 minutes.

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Old 06-23-2013, 05:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

If we're talking the suit, an explanation what the superman suit was doing on a ship buried for 20,000 years would have been nice.

Kal-El - 'Wow, a red and blue suit with a cape, how did it get here?'
Jor-El - *shrugs*

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Old 06-23-2013, 05:55 PM   #10
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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If we're talking the suit, an explanation what the superman suit was doing on a ship buried for 20,000 years would have been nice.

Kal-El - 'Wow, a red and blue suit with a cape, how did it get here?'
Jor-El - *shrugs*
Jor-El - 'Wow the colour's really faded over 20,000 years. It used to be a lot brighter"

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Old 06-24-2013, 10:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Jor El explained it was the El's that led the expeditions to other worlds so I think that's a good explanation as to why there'd be a suit there. Also it was different to Jor El's and had a cape attached so maybe that was an earlier suit worn by El's in the past. As for the fit its alien maybe it adapts to your physiology, that's not so hard to but when you look at the tech Kryptonians use.

Also on Modern Myth Meda one if them came up with a great explanation that the suit would be a formal wear for them to wear when meeting with leaders if other worlds etc.
Thank you for that explanation. I've only seen the movie once so clearly I missed some stuff. I didn't hear that it was Supes family who led the missions. That does make a lot of sense now that I think about it.


After seeing it I don't like the death of Jonathan it could have been done differently and w/o him sacrificing himself like that. He could die in a tornado but not that way.

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Old 06-24-2013, 02:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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I didn't love the suit reveal. Where'd it come from how did it fit Clark so well. Was someone from the House of El one of the people on the ship and that's why his suit was there?
Kara Zor-El was the pilot of that scout ship - all this is explained in the prequel comic. If you haven't read it, that's understandable that you wouldn't get where the suit came from.

Also, when Clark inserts the House of El command key into that ship and 'fires it up," Jor-El's sentience then inhabits the craft and controls all the systems.

To honestly think for even one second that the ship wouldn't then be capable of providing a suit for Kal is just crazy. It wouldn't be a "war suit" like the other suits, it wouldn't necessarily be designed as battle armor either - Jor-El has already made it abundantly clear as we all know that Kal is nearly invulnerable here on Earth under our younger yellow sun.

Having him wear suits similar to the ones Zod and his cohorts wear (because they were traveling in space at times when they're on other alien worlds inspecting the old colonial outposts) would be somewhat ridiculous. It would also be unreasonable to think that they never ever found themselves under another yellow sun someplace out there beyond our heavens, and had the same reaction by gaining some strength and other abilities.

House of El command key inserted into a scout ship sent out by House of El members and even piloted by a member of the House of El = Kal gets his suit as expected.

It's not that tough to understand (but you gotta read the prequel comic to get it, that much is certain).

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Old 06-24-2013, 02:44 AM   #14
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- all this is explained in the prequel comic. If you haven't read it, that's understandable that you wouldn't get where the suit came from.
I assume they will be giving copies of this comic away free outside the theater, since it's vital to following the movie

(apologies, I don't normally post sarcastic eye rolls, but that was
asking for a snark.)

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Old 06-24-2013, 02:45 AM   #15
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I assume they will be giving copies of this comic away free outside the theater, since it's vital to following the movie

(apologies, I don't normally post sarcastic eye rolls, but that was
asking for a snark.)
Actually, it's a Walmart exclusive as I understand it.

Further clarification: it was a digital download provided by a code with the purchase of one of those Walmart exclusive 7PM showings on June 13th, actually.

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Old 06-24-2013, 02:48 AM   #16
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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I assume they will be giving copies of this comic away free outside the theater, since it's vital to following the movie

(apologies, I don't normally post sarcastic eye rolls, but that was
asking for a snark.)
Still better than Halo 4, you need to read a book (or several, possibly) to follow the game's story line.

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Old 08-18-2014, 09:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Kara Zor-El was the pilot of that scout ship - all this is explained in the prequel comic. If you haven't read it, that's understandable that you wouldn't get where the suit came from.

Also, when Clark inserts the House of El command key into that ship and 'fires it up," Jor-El's sentience then inhabits the craft and controls all the systems.

To honestly think for even one second that the ship wouldn't then be capable of providing a suit for Kal is just crazy. It wouldn't be a "war suit" like the other suits, it wouldn't necessarily be designed as battle armor either - Jor-El has already made it abundantly clear as we all know that Kal is nearly invulnerable here on Earth under our younger yellow sun.

Having him wear suits similar to the ones Zod and his cohorts wear (because they were traveling in space at times when they're on other alien worlds inspecting the old colonial outposts) would be somewhat ridiculous. It would also be unreasonable to think that they never ever found themselves under another yellow sun someplace out there beyond our heavens, and had the same reaction by gaining some strength and other abilities.

House of El command key inserted into a scout ship sent out by House of El members and even piloted by a member of the House of El = Kal gets his suit as expected.

It's not that tough to understand (but you gotta read the prequel comic to get it, that much is certain).

Dude, I struggle to understand why people even need the suit explained, ( given that the ship came from a planet so advanced that it could open doorways into hyperspace, people could copy their personalities into small metal objects) but also that the main character can fly and shoot laser beams from his eyes.

If you can suspend disbelief on stuff like that, the ship being able to manufacture a suit for Kal doesn't seem too far fetched. It's like....the interstellar travel, flying and laser beams are okay, but a specially designed suit inside a space ship, now that''s too much ?

I don't disrespect people's opinions, and if that bugged some people, that's fine - but I still don't understand why.

cheers.

(BTW Man of Steel, I admit not perfect, but then no film is. MOS was still 100% awesome, a great new direction for Superman in the 21st Century).


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Old 06-23-2013, 06:46 PM   #18
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Pa Kent. Nearly no emotion in this scene. We should have seen the Kents actually find baby Clark. It would have had greater impact seeing the Kents as actual people. Instead, there was no connection. They were just some people in some flashbacks. Ma Kent, also no emotion. Should have had Clark get out of bed and see his parents before going to school or something at least. Smallville did it better.

I felt nothing for Clark when he was flying. I know it was supposed to be grand like "yeah finally! I'm so with him, this is fun!" except it fell flat. I mean it looked cool and all but...his "woohoo" I'm like, okay good for you.
Also the flashbacks should have all been done (in order, except for the last cape scene) before he got the fortress and put on the suit. Maybe that would have helped...

Perry White and all the idiots standing around watching the buildings fall on them. Jenny? Do we care that she's stuck? Did she even have a line before that?

The dialogue/delivery for Superman: "Do you think! You can threaten! My mother!" "You're a monster Zod, and I will stop you!" reminds me of "So you came to die with your city" "No, I came to stop you..."

Pacing was off. Like that scene where Superman destroys the drone.

Action was amazing, the visuals were good. I didn't care Metropolis was destroyed, I've been waiting to see Superman get crazy action scenes and that worked for me. Michael Shannon & Russell Crowe were especially good. Crowe reminded me of Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan. Henry was decent. Amy was okay, not terrible.

Could have been a lot better, could have been worse. Felt rushed as opposed to Batman Begins pace. Not really looking forward to other DC characters being done like this. Should just bring back Bale and do a WF film.

PS I remember another thing. Why did the Kryptonians have time to banish (save) Zod and his gang (criminals) yet stood idle as they all died as the planet exploded?? Their last moments are to save the criminals and die themselves? O-kay...
How soon after they put Zod in the Phantom Zone did Krypton explode? Did they not know it would release them? Did they really just waste their time putting Zod and his people away only to explode the next minute, releasing Zod and friends?

PPS now that I think about it, Metropolis was destroyed yet Clark comes to work at the end of the movie at the DP as if nothing happened to the city? I don't remember but did it look damaged or did it look perfectly fine?

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Old 06-23-2013, 10:27 PM   #19
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PS I remember another thing. Why did the Kryptonians have time to banish (save) Zod and his gang (criminals) yet stood idle as they all died as the planet exploded?? Their last moments are to save the criminals and die themselves? O-kay...
How soon after they put Zod in the Phantom Zone did Krypton explode? Did they not know it would release them? Did they really just waste their time putting Zod and his people away only to explode the next minute, releasing Zod and friends?

PPS now that I think about it, Metropolis was destroyed yet Clark comes to work at the end of the movie at the DP as if nothing happened to the city? I don't remember but did it look damaged or did it look perfectly fine?

PS The council didn't believe Jor-El or didn't know when it would happen.

PPS Undetermined amount of time has passed. Plus the Daily Planet could have been temporarily re-stationed.

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Old 06-25-2013, 02:41 PM   #20
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repost:
Pa Kent. Nearly no emotion in this scene. We should have seen the Kents actually find baby Clark. It would have had greater impact seeing the Kents as actual people. Instead, there was no connection. They were just some people in some flashbacks. Ma Kent, also no emotion. Should have had Clark get out of bed and see his parents before going to school or something at least. Smallville did it better.

I felt nothing for Clark when he was flying. I know it was supposed to be grand like "yeah finally! I'm so with him, this is fun!" except it fell flat. I mean it looked cool and all but...his "woohoo" I'm like, okay good for you.
Also the flashbacks should have all been done (in order, except for the last cape scene) before he got the fortress and put on the suit. Maybe that would have helped...

Perry White and all the idiots standing around watching the buildings fall on them. Jenny? Do we care that she's stuck? Did she even have a line before that?

The dialogue/delivery for Superman: "Do you think! You can threaten! My mother!" "You're a monster Zod, and I will stop you!" reminds me of "So you came to die with your city" "No, I came to stop you..."

Pacing was off. Like that scene where Superman destroys the drone.

Action was amazing, the visuals were good. I didn't care Metropolis was destroyed, I've been waiting to see Superman get crazy action scenes and that worked for me. Michael Shannon & Russell Crowe were especially good. Crowe reminded me of Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan. Henry was decent. Amy was okay, not terrible.

Could have been a lot better, could have been worse. Felt rushed as opposed to Batman Begins pace. Not really looking forward to other DC characters being done like this. Should just bring back Bale and do a WF film.

PS I remember another thing. Why did the Kryptonians have time to banish (save) Zod and his gang (criminals) yet stood idle as they all died as the planet exploded?? Their last moments are to save the criminals and die themselves? O-kay...
How soon after they put Zod in the Phantom Zone did Krypton explode? Did they not know it would release them? Did they really just waste their time putting Zod and his people away only to explode the next minute, releasing Zod and friends?

PPS now that I think about it, Metropolis was destroyed yet Clark comes to work at the end of the movie at the DP as if nothing happened to the city? I don't remember but did it look damaged or did it look perfectly fine?
Agreed.

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Old 07-04-2013, 12:43 AM   #21
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1.PS I remember another thing. Why did the Kryptonians have time to banish (save) Zod and his gang (criminals) yet stood idle as they all died as the planet exploded?? Their last moments are to save the criminals and die themselves? O-kay...
2.How soon after they put Zod in the Phantom Zone did Krypton explode? Did they not know it would release them? Did they really just waste their time putting Zod and his people away only to explode the next minute, releasing Zod and friends?

3.PPS now that I think about it, Metropolis was destroyed yet Clark comes to work at the end of the movie at the DP as if nothing happened to the city? I don't remember but did it look damaged or did it look perfectly fine?
1. The council didnt know/beleive jor el about kryptons doom
2.i think it was the same day that
they were banished.
3. I agree with that. Perhaps it was weeks if not months after the attack that clark got the job. I do wish they did a better job of that..

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Old 07-04-2013, 12:53 AM   #22
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1. The council didnt know/beleive jor el about kryptons doom
They definitely knew. I think they believed him, too. The issue, I think, was that no one knew when exactly the planet was going to explode.

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Old 07-04-2013, 12:54 AM   #23
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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1. The council didnt know/beleive jor el about kryptons doom
2.i think it was the same day that
they were banished.
3. I agree with that. Perhaps it was weeks if not months after the attack that clark got the job. I do wish they did a better job of that..
1. They didn't believe before, but they believed after that because they asked 'so what can we do now' of Jor El... So, they knew it was going to explode.. just not exactly when..

2. If it was indeed same day (not saying that it is), it would really be another plot hole.. the coincidences are just too much... Jor El plans to have his baby shipped off, and it was born on the day the planet explodes.. hahahahahhahahhahah... and then the revolution by Zod also happens on that exact same day... and the council sends them to the phantom zone on that day... holy molly... (note: goyer needs to enroll himself into a 'critical thinking' class)

3. Did they show the DP falling? Not sure about that even though I have seen it 3 times... but think about this, China is building the world's tallest building 220 stories, that can support a small city (30,000 people), in 90 days... so, if they employed the Chinese do do cleanup, the entire Metropolis could be rebuilt in 1 year..

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Old 07-04-2013, 03:33 AM   #24
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1. They didn't believe before, but they believed after that because they asked 'so what can we do now' of Jor El... So, they knew it was going to explode.. just not exactly when..

2. If it was indeed same day (not saying that it is), it would really be another plot hole.. the coincidences are just too much... Jor El plans to have his baby shipped off, and it was born on the day the planet explodes.. hahahahahhahahhahah... and then the revolution by Zod also happens on that exact same day... and the council sends them to the phantom zone on that day... holy molly... (note: goyer needs to enroll himself into a 'critical thinking' class)

3. Did they show the DP falling? Not sure about that even though I have seen it 3 times... but think about this, China is building the world's tallest building 220 stories, that can support a small city (30,000 people), in 90 days... so, if they employed the Chinese do do cleanup, the entire Metropolis could be rebuilt in 1 year..
With regards to 1.
I think that the point was that the council may or may not have believed Jor but they didnt act. They were bureaucrats.
That was the point of Zods anger and belief that some bloodlines should be scrapped. The council just talked and took no action. They, just like Zod were bound by what they were bred for.
And Jor-El was just getting through to them when Zod attacked.. he was finally inspiring them to let him act, you could see that was where it was heading.. then BOOM.

as for the time frames.. yeah it was a mess.
and i still dont get sentencing Zod and having a trial in what seemed like MOMENTS before the planet exploded. WTF

The one thing i would have done diffrerent would be to have Zods plan to be to invade earth..even then. To protect his race by taking them to a planet that would make them supermen...
then Zod coming to Earth is not Kals fault
you could even suggest JorEl sends Kal here to be our saviour (if you were so inclined).
Or Zod could learn of earth after Kal is sent and then he decides he wants the planet

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Old 07-04-2013, 04:16 AM   #25
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Originally Posted by rc1980 View Post
With regards to 1.
I think that the point was that the council may or may not have believed Jor but they didnt act. They were bureaucrats.
That was the point of Zods anger and belief that some bloodlines should be scrapped. The council just talked and took no action. They, just like Zod were bound by what they were bred for.
And Jor-El was just getting through to them when Zod attacked.. he was finally inspiring them to let him act, you could see that was where it was heading.. then BOOM.

as for the time frames.. yeah it was a mess.
and i still dont get sentencing Zod and having a trial in what seemed like MOMENTS before the planet exploded. WTF

The one thing i would have done diffrerent would be to have Zods plan to be to invade earth..even then. To protect his race by taking them to a planet that would make them supermen...
then Zod coming to Earth is not Kals fault
you could even suggest JorEl sends Kal here to be our saviour (if you were so inclined).
Or Zod could learn of earth after Kal is sent and then he decides he wants the planet
Right, and your storyline about Zod might work out well too.. right now, there are some inconsistencies.. like how come faora/zod and gang didn't age 33 years? They got out of the phantom zone the moment it exploded... so, about 33 years have passed before they arrived on Earth..

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