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View Poll Results: Do you think Batman will drag the MOS sequel down?
Yes. 37 40.66%
No. 54 59.34%
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:25 PM   #1
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Default Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

Just curious.

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

In the hands of Goyer and Snyder writing the story and screenplay, there is a good chance there might.

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

It's still too early to tell, yes, it's a concern of mine, but I'll wait for more information about the movie first.

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

While this new movie is not MOS2, I do think that this movie will reduce the chances our getting a MOS2.
It will be big and will lead us to Justice League.
We will likely get a Batman movie between the two films.
My fear is Superman will end up as just a team player a la Hulk and be unable to get another solo movie for a long time.

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Old 07-22-2013, 09:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaoth View Post
While this new movie is not MOS2, I do think that this movie will reduce the chances our getting a MOS2.
It will be big and will lead us to Justice League.
We will likely get a Batman movie between the two films.
My fear is Superman will end up as just a team player a la Hulk and be unable to get another solo movie for a long time.
They already stated that this will be MOS sequel with Batman as one of the new element to the story... This will be about Superman's first encounter with Bruce/Batman and at this point (Lex).

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

No. Snyder said in the Bat was just one single element to the story and brought out the passage as to how and why his introduction could make sense. I think this will be more directed towards the Clark Kent/Bruce Wayne/ Luthor dynamic than it would be with the Superman/Batman relationship. I think they will throw down at the end of the movie with quick turnaround, but Superman's world will be more fleshed out than Batman's story so I don't think he will drag it down. I think Bruce will be written into the story alongside Lex as the villain and eventually, join forces with Supes after their showdown once Lex is exposed.

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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No. Snyder said in the Bat was just one single element to the story and brought out the passage as to how and why his introduction could make sense. I think this will be more directed towards the Clark Kent/Bruce Wayne/ Luthor dynamic than it would be with the Superman/Batman relationship. I think they will throw down at the end of the movie with quick turnaround, but Superman's world will be more fleshed out than Batman's story so I don't think he will drag it down. I think Bruce will be written into the story alongside Lex as the villain and eventually, join forces with Supes after their showdown once Lex is exposed.
In that case, that's a great idea! By "teasing" Batman near the end of the film, it can set up World's Finest while being a strong self-contained narrative.

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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Originally Posted by Tra-El View Post
No. Snyder said in the Bat was just one single element to the story and brought out the passage as to how and why his introduction could make sense. I think this will be more directed towards the Clark Kent/Bruce Wayne/ Luthor dynamic than it would be with the Superman/Batman relationship. I think they will throw down at the end of the movie with quick turnaround, but Superman's world will be more fleshed out than Batman's story so I don't think he will drag it down. I think Bruce will be written into the story alongside Lex as the villain and eventually, join forces with Supes after their showdown once Lex is exposed.
I'm not saying I don't believe you, but it'd be great to have some links and interviews so we can read all those things ourselves. If you have a link for when Snyder said this please share it.

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreth View Post
I'm not saying I don't believe you, but it'd be great to have some links and interviews so we can read all those things ourselves. If you have a link for when Snyder said this please share it.
http://www.hitfix.com/news/report-su...e-in-the-works

Snyder made a surprise appearance at at the Con in order to reveal the news.

"I know there is some speculation about what we are doing and it is official that we are going to make another Superman movie," he told the Hall H crowd. "And so you know what happens next. [People will ask] 'Well Zack, what's the next movie about?' And the truth is you don't want to know, right? It's a movie. But, I can say there is a single element that's in the film, that I could help you out with."

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Old 07-21-2013, 03:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sage View Post
http://www.hitfix.com/news/report-su...e-in-the-works

Snyder made a surprise appearance at at the Con in order to reveal the news.

"I know there is some speculation about what we are doing and it is official that we are going to make another Superman movie," he told the Hall H crowd. "And so you know what happens next. [People will ask] 'Well Zack, what's the next movie about?' And the truth is you don't want to know, right? It's a movie. But, I can say there is a single element that's in the film, that I could help you out with."

I have no idea how people are misinterpreting what he actually said.
As to the question, IDK;'Snyder seems to love and respect Superman but Goyer wrote Batman. I guess people are worried this will be like Superman/Batman in the 90's. the only thing I really remember from those encounters was they had to make Batman smarter and tone down Superman's intelligence.

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Old 07-21-2013, 02:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tra-El View Post
No. Snyder said in the Bat was just one single element to the story and brought out the passage as to how and why his introduction could make sense. I think this will be more directed towards the Clark Kent/Bruce Wayne/ Luthor dynamic than it would be with the Superman/Batman relationship. I think they will throw down at the end of the movie with quick turnaround, but Superman's world will be more fleshed out than Batman's story so I don't think he will drag it down. I think Bruce will be written into the story alongside Lex as the villain and eventually, join forces with Supes after their showdown once Lex is exposed.
I do hope Superman's story will be fleshed out more and Batman's just there to get the butts in seats.

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

Who has the entire coverage for this, I haven't been able to follow the news, Did they announce it was a Man of Steel sequel? or did they call it a World's Finest movie?

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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Originally Posted by Andreth View Post
Who has the entire coverage for this, I haven't been able to follow the news, Did they announce it was a Man of Steel sequel? or did they call it a World's Finest movie?
Here is the entire video of the announcement

http://batman-news.com/2013/07/21/wa...ncement-video/

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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Here is the entire video of the announcement

http://batman-news.com/2013/07/21/wa...ncement-video/
Thank you

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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Originally Posted by Andreth View Post
Who has the entire coverage for this, I haven't been able to follow the news, Did they announce it was a Man of Steel sequel? or did they call it a World's Finest movie?
That's the question we all want to know the answer to!

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

Entirely possible if they go the Bruce Timm route of making Batman the protagonist in every encounter he has with Superman. Best Superman ever does is achieve co-protagonist status but Batman never takes a backseat to Superman in those cartoons. Why should we think the movies would be any different?

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Old 07-22-2013, 09:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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Entirely possible if they go the Bruce Timm route of making Batman the protagonist in every encounter he has with Superman. Best Superman ever does is achieve co-protagonist status but Batman never takes a backseat to Superman in those cartoons. Why should we think the movies would be any different?
With all due respect that's not true, Timm is a bigger batman fan than he is a superman fan we all know that but during the 3 episode arc the "world's finest" superman was shown in top form, in that arc:

1.
batman flips superman (much to the amusement of Clark!) but then superman body slams batman into a wall like a pancake.

2.
Batman struggles to protect himself and lois from one of lex's robots throughout the better half of the episode and was about be killed only for superman to come in and crush the robot with one step! He then looks at Bruce and lois and say's very casually "did I miss anything!"

3.
Joker traps superman, lois and batman with kryptonite and batman couldn't really come up with a way to escape noting that the jar of hydrochloric acid would take a week to melt through the door, but superman despite being hurt and weakened by the kryptonite tells batman to use the HCL to melt the kryptonite!
That was the most interesting part of the arc, where the team showed superman to come up with the solution not to mention the fact that he then saved batman and lois from the subsequent explosion.

4.
Superman saves batman again at the end when he and harley quinn were about to be engulfed by the flames.

There were 2 other team ups; the first was "knight time" where superman (with robin's) help saves batman and while disguised as batman shows brainiac that he is on to his plan prompting brainiac to tell superman (thinking he is batman) that "you are every bit the detective that your followers on the internet believe". This was a great episode highlighting superman's intellect and his discomfort at being batman
The other episode was the demon reborn with Ra's Alghul were superman ends up saving batman at the end and batman reluctantly notes how clever clark was at using Alghul's devotion to Talia to distract him and save them both!


Look I don't know how WF (or MOS 2) is going to turn out but when it comes to STAS (not JL) I have to give Timm and co ALOT of credit for showing superman in great light despite of their greater affection to batman.

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Old 07-22-2013, 10:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

The more I think about it and get beyond the initial shock of the announcement, the more disappointed I am that we're not going to get the pure MOS sequel I craved.

I wanted Superman's equivalent of The Dark Knight - a fantastic, epic story featuring the hero's most famous villain now that the origin is out of the way - and now we're not going to get it because the execs at WB just couldn't wait. They're so anxious to get their greedy hands on those Avengers dollars that they just blew their wad on a perfectly good franchise-in-the-making by forcing their real golden boy, Batman, into the picture where he didn't belong.

I'm not saying Snyder's Batman vs. Superman film can't be good. What I am saying is that this is a big disappointment to us Superman fans who wanted to see at least one more good solo Superman story onscreen, and will instead have to put up with yet more Batman.

Batman just had an epic trilogy. Why do we need him to crowd in on Superman's turf? I'm sorry, but even though Marvel's Phase One strategy was clearly a business plan, something about it also felt pure and joyful. Everything seemed to work out perfectly - introduce each hero, then mix. But this just seems way too fast. Unlike Thor or Captain America, Clark wasn't "established" at the end of MOS, but was barely finishing his journey to the starting point we all know. It's taking away from Superman to include another major hero like Batman in what was supposed to be a solo sequel.

Superhero movies have always one of the few areas where I can put aside my general hatred of capitalism and enjoy the fruits of what corporate Hollywood has to offer - even tracking box office results to make sure we get sequels. But this is too much. It's just too much of an obvious cash grab.

What's the main difference between Marvel Studios and Warner Bros.? If you had to narrow it down to one, it would be that Marvel is headed by fans who genuinely care about the characters, while WB has always reeked of empty-headed executives trying to mimic whatever worked best the last time. They somehow captured lightning in a bottle with TDK by pairing the right director with the right material, and they've been trying to recapture it ever since. All you have to do is look at something like Green Lantern - perfect example of an empty corporate product made by people who had no real affinity for the characters or the world they were creating.

Zack Snyder at least knows comics and you could tell he was trying to please the fans in MOS with all those Alex Ross-influenced shots, so I have no doubts that his Batman vs. Superman film will have plenty of striking visuals. But whereas MOS, despite its origins and commercial pressures, could still seem to me like they were trying to create an actual work of art, this Batman vs. Superman movie seems like nothing but a cynical attempt to compete with Marvel. It was financial considerations that determined what movie WB decided to produce, and that strategy has rarely yielded awesome creative results in the past.

And by the way, I totally agree with everyone who suggested that WB would never have tried to force Superman into a Batman movie.

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Old 07-22-2013, 10:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

^Well said, I'm in total agreement.

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Old 07-22-2013, 10:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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Originally Posted by Axl Van Sixx View Post

I'm not saying Snyder's Batman vs. Superman film can't be good. What I am saying is that this is a big disappointment to us Superman fans who wanted to see at least one more good solo Superman story onscreen, and will instead have to put up with yet more Batman.
Ignoring the fact that you very much can still get that in a WF movie(but I doubt fanboys will be satisfied), If you were at the Con this weekend you would have seen a Thor trailer and a Cap "trailer" that allude to good Thor and Cap movies. And imagine that, they are coming after the cross over film but they are still good character developing films....
Point being, even if WF isn't a superman movie, like the way Avengers isn't a Cap movie, that doesn't mean you won't get your superman movie in the next installment....just a thought.

Quote:
Batman just had an epic trilogy. Why do we need him to crowd in on Superman's turf? I'm sorry, but even though Marvel's Phase One strategy was clearly a business plan, something about it also felt pure and joyful. Everything seemed to work out perfectly - introduce each hero, then mix. But this just seems way too fast. Unlike Thor or Captain America, Clark wasn't "established" at the end of MOS, but was barely finishing his journey to the starting point we all know. It's taking away from Superman to include another major hero like Batman in what was supposed to be a solo sequel.
Actually people(especially dc fans) wouldn't shut up about how badly marvel was screwing with their films along the way. Yes it all "worked out" but that doesn't account for the sheer amount of *****ing along the way(see im2 rants). And here we are, DC's turn. How's about we see where this ends up.

Um..Cap is very much known for his man out of time persona. I didn't see any of that established by the end of TFA. Well I did actually, the last 4 minutes set it up, kinda ironic eh.

Won't get into thor.
Quote:
Superhero movies have always one of the few areas where I can put aside my general hatred of capitalism and enjoy the fruits of what corporate Hollywood has to offer - even tracking box office results to make sure we get sequels. But this is too much. It's just too much of an obvious cash grab.
You must have lost your mind when they announced Avengers at the very same con they premiered the first footage of cap and thor..

Quote:
And by the way, I totally agree with everyone who suggested that WB would never have tried to force Superman into a Batman movie.
Try and prove this.

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Old 07-22-2013, 10:48 PM   #21
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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Ignoring the fact that you very much can still get that in a WF movie(but I doubt fanboys will be satisfied), If you were at the Con this weekend you would have seen a Thor trailer and a Cap "trailer" that allude to good Thor and Cap movies. And imagine that, they are coming after the cross over film but they are still good character developing films....
Point being, even if WF isn't a superman movie, like the way Avengers isn't a Cap movie, that doesn't mean you won't get your superman movie in the next installment....just a thought.
Assuming there is a next installment. It all rides on the success of this Batman vs. Superman movie now, whereas before, at least we would have been assured of the solo MOS sequel.

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Um..Cap is very much known for his man out of time persona. I didn't see any of that established by the end of TFA. Well I did actually, the last 4 minutes set it up, kinda ironic eh.

Won't get into thor.
As far as Cap is concerned, you basically had all the elements in place so that when he was eventually unfrozen, he would be a certified "legend". That was the minimum bar for Cap to appear in The Avengers, and they got it. The equivalent for Superman would have to be a somewhat seasoned hero who has the Clark Kent/Daily Planet/glasses disguise down and has encountered his arch-enemy (Lex Luthor).

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You must have lost your mind when they announced Avengers at the very same con they premiered the first footage of cap and thor..
We all knew the Captain America and Thor movies were leading up to The Avengers, and indeed, might not even have been made otherwise. To me, the main test was whether we got solo movies that seemed to exhaust enough of the character's main potential to leave appetite for a team-up. With Superman, I still feel like we've barely scratched the surface for a guy who's supposed to be leader of the Justice League (note that RDJ/Tony Stark, the most popular member of The Avengers, got a full two films to develop before the teamup). With Thor and Cap, I felt like we had enough.

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Try and prove this.
I can't, it's just a gut feeling. But I can tell you that I've never heard a rumour about Batman appearing in a Superman movie, whereas even in the 90s, there were all kinds of rumours that Batman might appear at Superman's funeral in the proposed Tim Burton/Nicolas Cage movie and that Michael Keaton might play Bats. Never heard any similar rumour for a Batman movie about Superman making a guest appearance ("This is why Superman works alone" in B&R doesn't count).

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Old 07-22-2013, 10:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
Ignoring the fact that you very much can still get that in a WF movie(but I doubt fanboys will be satisfied), If you were at the Con this weekend you would have seen a Thor trailer and a Cap "trailer" that allude to good Thor and Cap movies. And imagine that, they are coming after the cross over film but they are still good character developing films....
Point being, even if WF isn't a superman movie, like the way Avengers isn't a Cap movie, that doesn't mean you won't get your superman movie in the next installment....just a thought.
The Avengers was hinted at the end of Iron Man (2008), so there was a 4 year buildup. I wouldn't compare WF to TA right now.

Quote:
Actually people(especially dc fans) wouldn't shut up about how badly marvel was screwing with their films along the way. Yes it all "worked out" but that doesn't account for the sheer amount of *****ing along the way(see im2 rants). And here we are, DC's turn. How's about we see where this ends up.
So? It didn't hurt Marvel in any way. It actually got them quite a lot of money. Plus all the movies were generally well received.

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Old 07-23-2013, 07:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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With all due respect that's not true, Timm is a bigger batman fan than he is a superman fan we all know that but during the 3 episode arc the "world's finest" superman was shown in top form, in that arc:
Those examples are the co-protagonist versions I was talking about and indeed they are the best versions(especially Knight Time). But most of the time it seems that Superman gets nerfed so Batman can look better. And sinc Batman is still much ore popular it'd be real easy to let him steal the spotlight in MoS2. Hopefully, that doesn't happen. Because Batman and Superman simply aren't equals. How in the world could any mere human being be equal with Superman?

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Old 07-23-2013, 08:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

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Those examples are the co-protagonist versions I was talking about and indeed they are the best versions(especially Knight Time). But most of the time it seems that Superman gets nerfed so Batman can look better. And sinc Batman is still much ore popular it'd be real easy to let him steal the spotlight in MoS2. Hopefully, that doesn't happen. Because Batman and Superman simply aren't equals. How in the world could any mere human being be equal with Superman?
No those are examples of superman saving or outwitting batman where superman came out as top dog. You said batman showed superman off all the time in the animated universe I would like examples of that, because that's what keep hearing from fanboys yet no really seemed to watch these things properly.

Yes batman is the most popular character out there (thanks to Nolan's film) and superman, spiderman, iron man etc....are all second fiddle in terms of popularity, there is no shame in that. popularity is a fleeting thing, it comes and goes but that doesn't mean that superman is going to play second fiddle in WF (although it's very possible that batman would get top billing and superman would get punked) but I for one am going to wait before I declare doom and gloom.

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Old 07-21-2013, 01:42 PM   #25
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Default Re: Do you think Batman will hamper MOS2?

Snyder pretty much said they are doing "another Superman movie" and that they are using the Dark Knight Returns as guide although it is not a direct adaptation.

Even the official WB press release does not call this a "sequel" to Man of Steel.

This new movie is a sequel to Man of Steel in the manner that Avengers is a sequel to the first two Iron Man movies.

Where in the video did Snyder say "" the Bat was just one single element to the story"?

Fanboys will spin this and I understand why they feel the need to do so.

Heck, even the official thread on this forum is calling this movie World's Finest and NOT MOS2!

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