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Old 10-16-2013, 09:44 PM   #1
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Question Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

I just rewatched it today and was thinking that Zod, being genetically bred for war and trained his entire existence to fight...he really should have been able to handle Supes with ease despite not having the 33 years of exposure to Earth's sun.

He was obviously still almost as powerful as Clark and yet he also has all the training behind him to know how to fight in hand to hand, which Clark had none of except for what he possibly learned in the ship he found in the ice.

Thoughts?

And my favourite character in the whole movie was Nam-ek.

He was a badass mofo in his fight with supes and he grunts like a savage. I wish we could have seen more of him kicking ass. That battle with him, Faora and Supes was the best part of the movie imo.

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Old 10-16-2013, 10:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

I've got two explanations. But they would both be up to the individual to decide whether they are worthy explanations.

1. Superman (like Jor El in the beginning of the film) was fighting for his family. He was fighting to save Earth. Including Martha, Lois and the entire race of people who raised him. This gave him the extra push he needed to defeat insurmountable odds.
2. General Zod was on a self-destructive, even suicidal path after he lost his own family/people. He wanted Superman to kill him. He even stated Kal took away his reason for existing.

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

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Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin View Post
I've got two explanations. But they would both be up to the individual to decide whether they are worthy explanations.

1. Superman (like Jor El in the beginning of the film) was fighting for his family. He was fighting to save Earth. Including Martha, Lois and the entire race of people who raised him. This gave him the extra push he needed to defeat insurmountable odds.
2. General Zod was on a self-destructive, even suicidal path after he lost his own family/people. He wanted Superman to kill him. He even stated Kal took away his reason for existing.
....what that guy said, plus the old "had his powers for 33 years and had much better control / experience with them. Particularly so for heat vision, he had that from at least the time he was 8.

Given their respective builds, Supes was probably physically stronger than Zod - now I know precisely how much skill can make up for that.
But I too believe that Zod was suicidal, and wanted to die.

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Old 10-16-2013, 10:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

Well, it does raise the question: how much more powerful are the Kryptonians bred for military service than the scientist class? Because Jor-El seemed to be holding his own against Zod in the prologue.

I would think without powers, that Zod would obviously win the fight, having extensive martial training (while Clark, may have none).

I think it really boils down to Zod being out of his element. Plus he was kind of losing it by that point.

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Old 10-16-2013, 11:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

Seriously guys? This answer is extremely obvious!
Kal-el has been on earth for 33 years soaking up the rays of our yellow sun and developing his powers. Zod was not nearly as strong as him and only began to develop his full power near the end of their fight, as evidenced by the scene where he breaks off his armor and discovers his ability to fly. Even if Zod is the better FIGHTER, Kal-el has been on earth much longer and thus would be stronger with more developed powers. This is Superman 101

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Old 10-16-2013, 11:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

He did man handle Supes some! He caught his cape and flung him away like a frishbee and then threw a satellite at him.

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Old 10-16-2013, 11:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

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Originally Posted by X-Nemesis View Post
I just rewatched it today and was thinking that Zod, being genetically bred for war and trained his entire existence to fight...he really should have been able to handle Supes with ease despite not having the 33 years of exposure to Earth's sun.

He was obviously still almost as powerful as Clark and yet he also has all the training behind him to know how to fight in hand to hand, which Clark had none of except for what he possibly learned in the ship he found in the ice.

Thoughts?

And my favourite character in the whole movie was Nam-ek.

He was a badass mofo in his fight with supes and he grunts like a savage. I wish we could have seen more of him kicking ass. That battle with him, Faora and Supes was the best part of the movie imo.
I'd have to say yes and no. In the film, when Zod was fighting Supes, he was defintely controlling the fights as evidenced by pushing Superman past his moral breaking point by repeatedly endangering lives culiminating in the neck snap. However you could also argue that Superman could've also been in control of the general use of his abilities in fights as:


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Old 10-17-2013, 05:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

I think Superman was a lot more powerful than the other Kryptonians. Remember when he was fighting both Faora and Nam-Ek at the same time, and apparently to a draw?

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Old 10-20-2013, 01:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

I think it's a worse question in the comics, because there Zod and friends have had a lot of time to adapt to the Sun powers and considering they are militarily trained they would be able to defeat him very easily, let alone the fact that they're from a very advanced planet and they're 3 vs 1.

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I think Superman was a lot more powerful than the other Kryptonians. Remember when he was fighting both Faora and Nam-Ek at the same time, and apparently to a draw?
I thought that Faora and Nam-Ek were using enhanced suits and only Zod started gaining powers since he was the one who came into direct contact with the sun and atmosphere

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Old 10-17-2013, 05:34 AM   #10
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

I do not think SUPERMAN was stronger, he was just more experienced with his powers.

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Old 10-20-2013, 01:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

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I do not think SUPERMAN was stronger, he was just more experienced with his powers.
I highly doubt it. Clark was holding his powers back. He only learned how to fly recently in the movie so he wasn't that experienced in using them.

He had to have been somewhat stronger simply because he's been on Earth longer.

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Old 10-17-2013, 04:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

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Originally Posted by X-Nemesis View Post
I just rewatched it today and was thinking that Zod, being genetically bred for war and trained his entire existence to fight...he really should have been able to handle Supes with ease despite not having the 33 years of exposure to Earth's sun.

He was obviously still almost as powerful as Clark and yet he also has all the training behind him to know how to fight in hand to hand, which Clark had none of except for what he possibly learned in the ship he found in the ice.

Thoughts?

And my favourite character in the whole movie was Nam-ek.

He was a badass mofo in his fight with supes and he grunts like a savage. I wish we could have seen more of him kicking ass. That battle with him, Faora and Supes was the best part of the movie imo.
This is one aspect of the movie that wasn't handled very well IMO. You see, having Superman being exposed to the sun for 33 years is rendered almost pointless if he gets weak so fast in kryptonian atmosphere (he should eventually struggled to breathe yes but should at least have reserved yet decreasing strength for days or longer) while having Zod and Co. being able to almost instantly enjoy nearly the same level of super powers with merely a couple hours of sun and atmospheric exposure alone while wearing breathing apparatus...hell Supes was reaping the nourishment of the atmosphere alone for 33 YEARS inside and out because he even adopted to it and you're going to tell me he gets weak as a human in a matter of minutes while Zod and Co. can brush off angry 33 year nourished punches? Snyder said that the three power levels in the film were Superman, Kryptonian and then humans but they constantly contradict Supes and the Kryptonian levels on screen. First, in the smallville fight Supes gets shot and the bullets seem to ricochet off him while he flies out of danger but send Faora and Nam-ek flying (good), yet Faora picks Superman up like a piece of paper and throws him through multiple buildings with literally zero effort.....WTH? Another scene is when Superman tackles Zod away from Martha and after the smoke clears Zod is quick on his feet while Supes is slow to get up....WTF? At the end of the day you could say that their was no clear cut line in terms of strength so basically 33 years of exposure wasn't as effective as it should have been rendering it almost pointless in a film about a character where it should have been of great importance and focus.

So to answer your question......Zod (and Co.) manhandling Supes because of bred warrior status shouldn't have even been an issue if exposure was handled logically for they should not have been able to take a weak punch from him without screaming in agony. They needed some form of fast working kryptonite so they said f u logic. And if I were to accept what the movie forced on us (which I still don't), then Supes (complete amateur) shouldn't have been able to land even a lucky shot on these so called genetically modified soldiers who supposedly trained all their lives to incapacitate their fellow man


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Old 10-21-2013, 03:22 AM   #13
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

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This is one aspect of the movie that wasn't handled very well IMO. You see, having Superman being exposed to the sun for 33 years is rendered almost pointless [B]if he gets weak so fast in kryptonian atmosphere (he should eventually struggled to breathe yes but should at least have reserved yet decreasing strength for days or longer) while having Zod and Co. being able to almost instantly enjoy nearly the same level of super powers with merely a couple hours of sun and atmospheric exposure alone while wearing breathing apparatus...hell Supes was reaping the nourishment of the atmosphere alone for 33 YEARS inside and out because he even adopted to it and you're going to tell me he gets weak as a human in a matter of minutes while Zod and Co. can brush off angry 33 year nourished punches? [/B


]Snyder said that the three power levels in the film were Superman, Kryptonian and then humans but they constantly contradict Supes and the Kryptonian levels on screen. First, in the smallville fight Supes gets shot and the bullets seem to ricochet off him while he flies out of danger but send Faora and Nam-ek flying (good), yet Faora picks Superman up like a piece of paper and throws him through multiple buildings with literally zero effort.....WTH? Another scene is when Superman tackles Zod away from Martha and after the smoke clears Zod is quick on his feet while Supes is slow to get up....WTF? At the end of the day you could say that their was no clear cut line in terms of strength so basically 33 years of exposure wasn't as effective as it should have been rendering it almost pointless in a film about a character where it should have been of great importance and focus.

So to answer your question......Zod (and Co.) manhandling Supes because of bred warrior status shouldn't have even been an issue if exposure was handled logically for they should not have been able to take a weak punch from him without screaming in agony. They needed some form of fast working kryptonite so they said f u logic. And if I were to accept what the movie forced on us (which I still don't), then Supes (complete amateur) shouldn't have been able to land even a lucky shot on these so called genetically modified soldiers who supposedly trained all their lives to incapacitate their fellow man
See, these types of arguments are not very well founded, what they showed was logical.

Superman getting weak on board the Kryptonian ship was due to him not being accustomed to Kryptonian atmosphere, he was not acclimatized. he was not used to Kryptonian atmosphere, Red Sun radiation and gravity on the ship.

Zod and others were in a different situation, they were getting charged, their body was not used to such conditions true, but then they were not being drained (like Supes) they were starting to gain some super powers.

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Old 10-21-2013, 05:02 PM   #14
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

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See, these types of arguments are not very well founded, what they showed was logical.

Superman getting weak on board the Kryptonian ship was due to him not being accustomed to Kryptonian atmosphere, he was not acclimatized. he was not used to Kryptonian atmosphere, Red Sun radiation and gravity on the ship.

Zod and others were in a different situation, they were getting charged, their body was not used to such conditions true, but then they were not being drained (like Supes) they were starting to gain some super powers.
I guess it would be harder for Supes to adapt due to the harsh conditions of the replicated kryptonian atmosphere but all of this said logic goes to sh** when Lois is able to roam freely (with breather) about with not a care in the world and is able to actually lift a kryptonian gun and fight off a female kryptonian (who is already extremely more powerful than a human naturally) in replicated earth atmosphere.

So this means that as long as a human has an oxygen headset alone he can walk on Krypton and no harm shall come to him despite the atmosphere being not only harsher than that of earth.....but harsh enough to produce super-powered indestructible beings when they are exposed to our young bright sun and conditions. The kryptonian red sun is way older hence their environment became adapted to that and they evolved to absorb as much sunlight and nourishment as possible from the older weary sun to survive. With this knowledge, the far younger sun and far less harsh environment provided by the earth with their adapted ability to absorb and take in as much as possible made them superhuman. By having Lois being able to even be on that ship without an advanced full body space suite contradicts the power level that they depict on earth because according to Lois it ain't nothing for humans to waltz on krypton.

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Old 10-17-2013, 04:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

Zod was pretty much whipping up on Superman mostly until the end of the fight when the sleeper was hold was applied.

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Old 10-17-2013, 04:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

well, for one, you cant end the movie with zod beating superman. though, you cant end the movie with superman murdering someone either, but they did that anyways, which brings us to the second point....the movie wasnt really written well enough for us to ignore the fact that Zod should have been able to beat the crap out of superman and jor-el, due to being genetically pre-disposed to do so. the whole genetic thing being part of the crappy writing, by the way.

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Old 10-18-2013, 06:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

Ok, I can see it being that Zod chose to die and allowed himself to get in the situation where Supes was forced to kill him. Possibly that he knew that that would hurt Clark more than anything and because Zod knew that even if he did kill every human on earth he'd still be purposeless, so he forces Clark to take him out.

He allowed himself to be put in the headlock.

Cause honestly, Zod was trading Supes blow for blow and he was only exposed for a few minutes. It did not really look like Superman's 33 years of absorbing the Sun made any difference whatsoever. It's like putting a 230lb trained military man of 10-20+ years in elite forces against a similarly sized man who grew up on a farm and did random jobs across the country.

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

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It did not really look like Superman's 33 years of absorbing the Sun made any difference whatsoever. It's like putting a 230lb trained military man of 10-20+ years in elite forces against a similarly sized man who grew up on a farm and did random jobs across the country.
My own theory was that the time factor was irrelevant in terms of soaking up the sun's power. A few minutes under a yellow sun vs 33 years of it would not make any difference. The edge that Kal had however was his resolve. He'd pretty much only just learned to fly, like the other Kryptonians, so it's not fair to say he was more experienced with his powers. Perhaps he had a better command of his strength.

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Old 10-19-2013, 07:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

The powers are making up for all the skill.

Strength and Stamina? Well Both men are essentially equal. Muscle size is irrelevant.

Reflex and reaction time? Well Both men are equal. Zod had to hone his senses for military and Clark had to do it every day of his life to not go fruit loops.

Because of this Zod has no advantage except actual technique.

Then Superman has the advantage of Flight. He's had some time to experiment and fight in a three dimensional space. Zod while he gained the ability is still 2D fighting/. In addition while Clark may not know his limits, he knows where they don't stop. Zod doesn't know how hard he can punch.

And of course Zod is on a suicide run. He's being sloppy. He wants to die.

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:22 AM   #20
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

Zod beat Superman pretty well in the final fight, but I think the reason Superman had the edge in the end was better control and more experience with his powers, Zod only developed flight halfway through the fight itself, same with heat vision, so its obvious he was still getting used to his powers even during the fight, this gave Superman the edge.

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:45 AM   #21
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

Zod was totally depending on the World engine when it got destroyed he lost the confidence thus making him suicidal .
To me it felled Zod wasn't ready enough for a fair fight even with new found abilities Just look how it ended with him trying to blast few people with his eye beams instead of loosening the grip and continuing the fight .
He also seemed tired during the fight maybe because of his age ?

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Old 10-21-2013, 02:52 AM   #22
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

Well, when it comes to the Smallville fight, it was definitely Clark's ability to utilize all of his kryptonian powers and controlling his senses that gave him the edge in his fight against Nam-ek and Faora.

From what we saw, all Clark really needed to do at that point was just destroy or damage their breathers that controlled on how much of the Earth's atmosphere they absorbed in at once since Zod and Faora were brought to their knees from not knowing on how to handle their super senses.

And with Nam-ek, it was definitely Clark knowing on how to fly and Nam-ek not knowing it that gave him the advantage in that fight.

Also, regarding Superman's fight with Zod at the very end, I think it was definitely Clark having been exposed to the sun rays for 33 years that allowed him to break Zod's neck.

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Old 10-21-2013, 03:10 AM   #23
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

Kal-El's strength was shown as superior when Zod couldn't free himself from Supes strangle hold at the end. You can see Zod trying to fly up to break it but Supes has the raw power to hold him down. So the 33 years of exposure tips the fight his way.

Also, I get the feeling Zod and co scouted the Earth a little before first contact. You don't just land next to Ma Kent's place flip a trick and have Faora jump 100 feet as a first act of new powers. So it must be assumed they were getting exposure prior to contact (also the scientist on their ship was acutely aware of the powers Kal had gained indicating that the atmosphere would render them useless, which assumes that is what happened to the crew prior).

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:09 AM   #24
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Default Re: Shouldn't Zod have manhandled Supes?

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Kal-El's strength was shown as superior when Zod couldn't free himself from Supes strangle hold at the end. You can see Zod trying to fly up to break it but Supes has the raw power to hold him down. So the 33 years of exposure tips the fight his way.

Also, I get the feeling Zod and co scouted the Earth a little before first contact. You don't just land next to Ma Kent's place flip a trick and have Faora jump 100 feet as a first act of new powers. So it must be assumed they were getting exposure prior to contact (also the scientist on their ship was acutely aware of the powers Kal had gained indicating that the atmosphere would render them useless, which assumes that is what happened to the crew prior).
I'm assuming that they must have come into contact with a Yellow Sun somewhere down their 33 year voyage in space.

I think the difference here though is that they had no real interest in harnessing or keeping their powers like their comic book counterparts or even Donner versions would have since they were all bred in being very focused on their goal, nothing else.

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Old 10-21-2013, 10:55 PM   #25
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