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View Poll Results: Superman vs. Captain Marvel
Superman 116 61.05%
Captain Marvel 74 38.95%
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Old 07-31-2003, 03:08 PM   #1
Kronocide
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Default Superman vs. Captain Marvel

Who is the most powerful? I'm obviously talking of the original Captain Marvel. SHAZAM!

Captain Marvel is officially "the world's mightiest mortal," but that's not really taking Superman into account.

Yet, Captain Marvel is not a freak of physics, but endorsed with divine powers, which is a difference in my mind.

Also, in Kingdom Come, Captain Marvel has twice the chin size and twice the chest size of Superman (and Alex Ross must be an authority, right?), and he seems stronger.

It's easy to tell I'm a Captain Marvel fan, and my vote is on him. What about you?

Some inspiration:
Superman vs Shazam

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Old 08-01-2003, 03:01 AM   #2
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Noticed that there is already a thread for this under DC Comics.

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Old 08-01-2003, 03:10 PM   #3
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Captain Marvel isn't Stronger. He is almost as strong as Superman but he is below his level. Size doesn't mean everything. Superman is the most powerful.

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Old 08-01-2003, 06:36 PM   #4
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Old 08-01-2003, 06:36 PM   #5
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Seriously, when did chest and chin size become a factor in anything? If they were, Jay Leno would be able to crush concrete with his bare hands.

Anyway, as I said in the DC forum thread, Captain Marvel seems like he'd come out on top. Old-fashioned fisticuffs on the same level with Superman coupled with a well-placed magic lightning bolt or 2 would be tough for Supes to overcome.

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Old 08-01-2003, 07:44 PM   #6
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If chin size doesn't mean anything in superhero comics, then when does it ever? Of course it means something. At least when it comes to these guys. Seriuosly though, see my post in the thread under DC.


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Old 08-17-2003, 01:15 PM   #7
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from what ive heard capt marvel handed supes his ass to him in Kingdom come since i havent read it yet ill take everyones word for it, but i also remember people saying that supes was a bad mo fo in that story as well

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Old 08-18-2003, 03:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by dark_knight_fan
from what ive heard capt marvel handed supes his ass to him in Kingdom come since i havent read it yet ill take everyones word for it, but i also remember people saying that supes was a bad mo fo in that story as well
Eeeh,..
Supes held back throughout Kingdom Come until billy red pants -w- gold trim started using the magic lighting.

It was obvious that if supes wasn't so squeamish about taking life or maiming folk that Shazam would've been toast.

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Old 08-18-2003, 12:42 PM   #9
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i was wondering if he was holding back because supes ALWAYS seems to hold back, but like i said i have yet to read the story so i dont know for sre. Also if supes is so damn fast, flying, running and just his movement period wouldnt he be able to just use his super speed and stand up hit Capt Marvel with one good shot before he could strike him with a lighting bolt? because even if the lighting bolt and supes travel at the same speed if supes gets going first he would reach capt marvel first wouldnt he?

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Old 09-01-2003, 06:54 AM   #10
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Superman

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Old 09-02-2003, 10:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Varient
Eeeh,..
Supes held back throughout Kingdom Come until billy red pants -w- gold trim started using the magic lighting.

It was obvious that if supes wasn't so squeamish about taking life or maiming folk that Shazam would've been toast.
(For the last time, his name is Cpt. Marvel! Shazam is a GOD.) How was this obvious? In the scene right before they meet, Supes is going full speed (the air around him is being scorched) and Marvel is a red streak to him. There are no signs that Superman is holding back in the ensuing fight. I'm not saying KC is consistent with other stories, but in that story, Marvel beats Supes into the ground with a grin on his face.

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Old 09-02-2003, 11:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kronocide
(For the last time, his name is Cpt. Marvel! Shazam is a GOD.) How was this obvious? In the scene right before they meet, Supes is going full speed (the air around him is being scorched) and Marvel is a red streak to him. There are no signs that Superman is holding back in the ensuing fight. I'm not saying KC is consistent with other stories, but in that story, Marvel beats Supes into the ground with a grin on his face.
My bad,...Cap'n Marvel then.


On Topic:

Throughout his history as a hero,...and underlined in kingdom come,..... Superman holds back his full powers in almost every confrontation.

He is always adjusting his abilities to suit.
CM was only a blur to Kal-El until HE got serious,...how else could he reach up between Lightning strikes and clamp CM's jaw shut?

Ya'll just wanna put a dude who's powers put him between Wonder Woman and the Martian Manhunter up next to Superman w/o considering which hero is known for not going full out.

Peace.

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Old 09-02-2003, 02:33 PM   #13
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Throughout his history as a hero,...and underlined in kingdom come,..... Superman holds back his full powers in almost every confrontation.

Well, he'd know he doesn't have to hold back against Marvel. Also, they have met before, and even if Supes generally wins, he's not been holding back. He would lose if he did.

I don't know where you get that Marvel is between WW and Martian Manhunter, but originally (and in KC) he is "the world's mightiest mortal." Maybe Waid is more true to the original Captain Marvel than the later DC variant, but I'd say he is at least an even match for Supes. He is said to be able to "match Superman's every move." And face it, he does beat Superman in Kingdom Come. To claim that Supes is holding back, while he's losing the fight and armageddon arrives because of it, is just not a credible interpretation.



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Old 03-19-2007, 03:48 AM   #14
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Default Re: Superman vs. Captain Marvel

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Originally Posted by Kronocide View Post
And face it, he does beat Superman in Kingdom Come.
What? What part of "hands that can squeeze coal into diamonds crawl across human flesh" didn't you get? Superman is trying to talk the entire fight. Marvel is brainwashed and hitting him with all he's got until Superman gets pissed and yells "Enough", taking a lightning bolt and grabbing Marvel by the face, at which point, the writer makes it very clear he could pop his head if he wanted to. Superman then decides to free Marvel, letting him choose his next action. Which Kingdom Come were you reading? In your version does the kryptonite hurt Superman because you want it to?

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Old 03-19-2007, 11:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: Superman vs. Captain Marvel

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Originally Posted by larryfilmmaker View Post
What? What part of "hands that can squeeze coal into diamonds crawl across human flesh" didn't you get? Superman is trying to talk the entire fight. Marvel is brainwashed and hitting him with all he's got until Superman gets pissed and yells "Enough", taking a lightning bolt and grabbing Marvel by the face, at which point, the writer makes it very clear he could pop his head if he wanted to. Superman then decides to free Marvel, letting him choose his next action. Which Kingdom Come were you reading? In your version does the kryptonite hurt Superman because you want it to?
Actually all that proves is that Superman can beat Billy Batson. Using the lightning against Superman was a neat plot device, but it was a disadvantage as much as an advantage. If Billy had remained Cap the two would still have been slugging it out after the bomb exploded amidst all those dead bodies with neither of them gaining anything. (Yes, I believe Cap would survive the blast. He died in his ordinary human form.)

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Old 06-23-2008, 12:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Superman vs. Captain Marvel

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Originally Posted by Czar Colossus View Post
Actually all that proves is that Superman can beat Billy Batson. Using the lightning against Superman was a neat plot device, but it was a disadvantage as much as an advantage. If Billy had remained Cap the two would still have been slugging it out after the bomb exploded amidst all those dead bodies with neither of them gaining anything. (Yes, I believe Cap would survive the blast. He died in his ordinary human form.)
ross and waid ripped this directly off Alan Moore's ToSH. (which is cheesy but okay since DC owned the rights to it). no one can beat cap marvel so martian manhunter kills BB while his mouth is covered. the lightning gag itself was kicking around for a decade in newsgroups and BBS before there even was an internet

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you'll choose your favorite.
this is the truest quote in here. they're basically the same deal... it's like arguing who'd win Doc Savage or Batman? batman writers ripped off so much crap from Doc that they're basically the same character in strength and talents by now... how the crap can you distinguish who's stronger or smarter? or the Shadow versus Batman... one is magic based one science based... but the core of the amalgamated character is such that they specialize in duex ex machina (aka batman's "prep time" argument v superman). compensating for their own weaknesses and opponents' strengths is the CORE of the character it's not like batman wouldn't be able to find a way to combat the Shadow and vice versa.

it's a wash so you pick the one you like

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Old 06-30-2008, 08:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Superman vs. Captain Marvel

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Originally Posted by wootbaby View Post
ross and waid ripped this directly off Alan Moore's ToSH. (which is cheesy but okay since DC owned the rights to it). no one can beat cap marvel so martian manhunter kills BB while his mouth is covered. the lightning gag itself was kicking around for a decade in newsgroups and BBS before there even was an internet
That sounds pretty interesting. Is that Alan Moore's Twilight plot? I would like to read more about it.

I'm biased in that I like Captain Marvel more. I think I would be able to relate to him more mainly because Billy Batson is human and has a sense of innocence and purity to him. He also has that humility that he does make mistakes. A great rendition of Captain Marvel can be in Dini's Shazam! Power of Hope and in Johns' JSA Captain Marvel when interacting with Stargirl. I thought that was an awesome take on how awkward it would be for Billy to be on JSA as Captain MArvel and to have a secret relationship with Stargirl and only the two of them know Billy is Captain Marvel. The whole JSA were freaked out about it being Captain Marvel, a 35 year old guy dating Stargirl, who was around 16 years old. But Billy knew if he revealed he was really 16, then all of the members of JSA would not respect him as they do in his Captain Marvel form.

Superman will always be the role model in which superheroes look up to. He just seems like he makes no mistakes and that he is more cold and calculated when compared to Captain Marvel, which was seen heavily in "First Thunder."

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Old 03-20-2007, 12:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: Superman vs. Captain Marvel

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Originally Posted by larryfilmmaker View Post
What? What part of "hands that can squeeze coal into diamonds crawl across human flesh" didn't you get? Superman is trying to talk the entire fight. Marvel is brainwashed and hitting him with all he's got until Superman gets pissed and yells "Enough", taking a lightning bolt and grabbing Marvel by the face, at which point, the writer makes it very clear he could pop his head if he wanted to. Superman then decides to free Marvel, letting him choose his next action. Which Kingdom Come were you reading? In your version does the kryptonite hurt Superman because you want it to?
You would say that in Kingdom Come Cap was brainwashed so Superman was holding back. The same can be said when Superman was possessed by Eclipso. Superman was more ruthless than ever and Captain Marvel was also holding back and still was able to went toe-to-toe with Supes.
Cap only lose because he chose not to kill Supes.

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Old 03-20-2007, 05:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Superman vs. Captain Marvel

Very good point; I believe that happened on two different occasions.

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Old 09-03-2003, 01:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kronocide
Throughout his history as a hero,...and underlined in kingdom come,..... Superman holds back his full powers in almost every confrontation.

Well, he'd know he doesn't have to hold back against Marvel. Also, they have met before, and even if Supes generally wins, he's not been holding back. He would lose if he did.

I don't know where you get that Marvel is between WW and Martian Manhunter, but originally (and in KC) he is "the world's mightiest mortal." Maybe Waid is more true to the original Captain Marvel than the later DC variant, but I'd say he is at least an even match for Supes. He is said to be able to "match Superman's every move." And face it, he does beat Superman in Kingdom Come. To claim that Supes is holding back, while he's losing the fight and armageddon arrives because of it, is just not a credible interpretation.

(smile)
Superman has even mentioned to the side in his own comics that sometimes he holds back too much, hence the ability for folk in his power range to tag him.

Even against Wonder Woman and the Martian,..Supes figurativly ties one arm behind his back.
In CM's case - It was magic lightning until supes clamped his mouth shut.
A more pragmatic man would have snapped his neck and been done with it with a nuke on the way,..but the point of Kingdom come was all about restraint.

CM was trying to beat Superman,.... Supes was trying to save the world, (like usual), Do you really think that if they threw down seriously that CM has even a fair chance to beat sumbody who by Kingdom Come was almost completly immune to his greatest weakness?

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Old 09-03-2003, 03:58 AM   #21
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Well, Marvel was also under the hypnotic influence of Luthor. Not all there, as it were. If he had been, he hadn't been silly enough to transform back to Billy while fighting Superman. So you might say that he was holding back too.

Anyway, I can see no signs of restraint with Supes in that fight. If he actually held back and failed his mission, letting hundreds of people die because of it, it would seem like he's incapable of using his full force, so that would make the question of what he can really do academic. And of course, Marvel's lightning isn't "cheating" or anything, it's part of his powers.

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Old 09-20-2003, 08:28 AM   #22
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Oh please superman was getting his ass kicked plain and simple. I wouldn't mind so much if marvel was going all out. But he wasn''t even trying

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Old 09-20-2003, 02:26 PM   #23
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Spectre coulda w00ped em all right there and then

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Old 09-30-2003, 05:41 AM   #24
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holey moley cap wins this one he'll wax kal-el like a hardwood floor

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Old 10-04-2003, 02:31 PM   #25
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Isn't one of supes weaknesses magic?Where does Captain Marvel get his powers from?
Sides that,let's break this down a little bit.Superman is an alien with all kinds of powers right.Good,gravy,whatever.
Captain Marvel gets his powers from gods.Not abnormally strong people, from gods.The strength of Hercules,etc. So,he's not as powerful as A god.He's as powerful as several gods.Would this not relegate to a serious ass whupping of an alien or does this mean that an alien is stronger than gods.
This arguement can be taken with Thor of the Marvel universe too.Shouldn't Thor be able to kick everyones ass?He's a damn god for heaven's sake(no pun intended) Maybe it's just me but when someone has the power of a god (or numerous gods) he should be able to hand a lot of people a lot of asses.(Nice mental note by the way

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