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Old 01-18-2007, 03:00 PM   #326
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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The thing is reading 600 comics won't give anyone instict or talent.
Got a link to where your sig came from? It kinda seems pretty dumb not to read up on the source material...

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Old 01-18-2007, 03:04 PM   #327
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Maybe in context, it sounded fine. I sure as hell would've remembered it.

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Old 01-18-2007, 10:36 PM   #328
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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LOL! Yeah man! I had the same question when I first saw the movie. I was like "What . . . we get to see em rig the Batmobile but not sneek into the Batcave?" But of course I always believed that with the way Penguin was portrayed as a sewer dweller that he and his Circus gang kept tabs on Batman's appearances in Gotham. One of the circus members could have drawn those blueprints. But I'm right there with you man. If that were the case they could have explained that in the movie. Would have been nothing to have a circus henchman sitting at a drafting table when Max Shreck had his first visit to the 'Underground Circus'. S'like it would have been nothing for Prof. Lupin to had a little bit of diologue with Harry Potter dealing with the Murauder's Map and the white stag pertronus.
Here's another question about the Batmobile sabotage in Returns. Okay, they had these blueprints of the car... they took the damn car apart, and had tools everywhere...

...and yet, when Batman is trying to figure out what's wrong with the car, he realizes his entire problem is a goofy-looking transponder stuck to the bottom of the car, he punches through the floorboard (somehow... is the 'mobile really that fragile?) and tears the thing off. Problem solved.

Okay. So... let me get this straight. They had to TAKE THE CAR APART in order to ATTACH A TRANSPONDER TO THE BOTTOM? Wouldn't it have been simpler to just reach down there and stick it on there?

And another thing... if there's going to be a transponder at all... why bother telling us they have the blueprints? They don't need blueprints to stick a transponder on there!

And as long as I'm picking... Penguin said they were gonna turn the Batmobile into a ticking time-bomb or something like that. I guess he was speaking figuratively but it was sort of misleading. I thought they were gonna blow it up.

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Old 01-18-2007, 10:47 PM   #329
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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I remember the interview, Heath did actually say that a week or so after he was cast. I kind of understood what he meant but I think the way it came off was a little ignorant.
Heath's point was that he doesn't have any pre-conceptions about the character (you know, like some people here). Instead he was a blank slate where Joker is concerned, ready to study up on whatever version of the character Nolan wants him to portray.

So now that he's reading the books, he's reading the ones that demonstrate a Joker like the one that Nolan has in mind.

And to answer you, El Payaso, I think Ledger's movies demonstrate that he can act quite well.

I haven't seen any that demonstrate that he can play the Joker, but I do know that any straight actor who is willing to take a part that requires him to make out with another man, is brave, and takes his art seriously.

If Ledger approaches Joker with the same bravery and dedication that he approached his role in Brokeback Mountain, then I think he will do a brilliant job.

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Old 01-18-2007, 11:05 PM   #330
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I thought Jack Nicholson could have been the perfect joker if Tim Burton didn't make him so over the top crazy and likable.

I agree with the dude who posted in here that if Nicholson had played him more like his character in the shinning or after he did the shinning even. Then I think he would have been perfect.

I didn't like the face scarring either, the guy's natural smile is creepy and phsyco enough for me. He was still cool though.



I hope that TDK's version of the joker will be a bit darker and scarier than the previous incarnation was.

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Old 01-19-2007, 05:55 AM   #331
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Got a link to where your sig came from? It kinda seems pretty dumb not to read up on the source material...
It was one of the first things Ledger said when he was casted as Joker. It was the time when he licked Nolan's ass clean saying '**** superhero movies except for Nolan's.' We had like 5 threads for that interview.

I think you're right, but nevertheless for an actor it's always better to have a instinctive approach first free from any preconceived notion. That's why I always find more interesting when the actor or director is not a recalcitrant fan and have no giant baggage about the characters beforehand. I'm sure Ledger was refering to the same thing.

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And to answer you, El Payaso, I think Ledger's movies demonstrate that he can act quite well.
To make it clear, I have never doubted about Ledger's talent.

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Old 01-19-2007, 05:56 AM   #332
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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he doesn't need to read comics, and in my opinion he should avoid most of them.

[Myrddin_Emrys=quote]Nothing was correct or 'nailed' about them in any shape or form.
it's a bad habit to start exaggerating[/quote]

In my opinion im not exaggerating. The films could not have been possibly more unfaithful to Batman if they tried, and Jacks Joker was laughable if you would excuse the pun.

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Old 01-19-2007, 06:51 AM   #333
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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In my opinion im not exaggerating. The films could not have been possibly more unfaithful to Batman if they tried, and Jacks Joker was laughable if you would excuse the pun.
Okay. Do what 'exaggerating' even means?

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Old 01-19-2007, 10:18 AM   #334
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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I already said I understood what he meant.
Oh yeah, I know. Sorry. I sorta screwed that up; I meant to be agreeing with you and posting those words for the benefit of everbody else, but I was sorta distracted and made it look like I was responding directly to you. My bad.

What I meant was, I'm with ya. Sorry for the confusion.

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Old 01-19-2007, 10:21 AM   #335
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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It was one of the first things Ledger said when he was casted as Joker. It was the time when he licked Nolan's ass clean saying '**** superhero movies except for Nolan's.' We had like 5 threads for that interview.

I think you're right, but nevertheless for an actor it's always better to have a instinctive approach first free from any preconceived notion. That's why I always find more interesting when the actor or director is not a recalcitrant fan and have no giant baggage about the characters beforehand. I'm sure Ledger was refering to the same thing.



To make it clear, I have never doubted about Ledger's talent.
Awesome. I agree with every word of that post.

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Old 01-21-2007, 03:07 AM   #336
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Im still doubtful of Ledger's talent but Im still giving him another chance and will wait for his performance in TDK to make my final judgement.

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Old 01-21-2007, 07:16 PM   #337
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Im still doubtful of Ledger's talent but Im still giving him another chance and will wait for his performance in TDK to make my final judgement.
Just curious, but, when you make your final judgment, will you be wearing a black robe and a powdered wig?

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Old 01-22-2007, 12:06 AM   #338
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Nicholson was NOT a great Joker...and Ive always said that the Batman movie was a tad on the craptacular side. Everyone thinks Joker was perfect...but as a crazed homicidal maniac he was lame...and as a bad Romero rip-off he was lame...so however you look at it, he was second rate.

If Ledger aces the way Joker is in the comics then it will make me very happy.

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Old 01-22-2007, 12:36 AM   #339
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Nicholson was NOT a great Joker...and Ive always said that the Batman movie was a tad on the craptacular side. Everyone thinks Joker was perfect...but as a crazed homicidal maniac he was lame...and as a bad Romero rip-off he was lame...so however you look at it, he was second rate.

If Ledger aces the way Joker is in the comics then it will make me very happy.
Yeah, that's what ahppened. Nichoplson just think his persponality was no good for the character ... and ripped off Romero. And was a lame homicidal, just tried to poison the whole city and made some random killings poisoning hygiene products. And the electric buzzer.... so un-Joker...

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Old 01-22-2007, 12:09 PM   #340
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

You're being facetious. So, as a goofy comedy character, would you say that Nicholson did a better job than Romero? Or is Romero still king with Nicholson being a second rate version?

On a crazed homicidal level...did Nicholsons Jker display ANY hint of being the kind of guy who would kill and torture people the way he does in the comics? Aside from a hygiene product that kills you with a smile...any ruthless crowbar beatings? And torturing of a girl while her dad is helpless to stop it? So, either he aced that, or he was a second rate homicidal maniac.

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Old 01-22-2007, 12:16 PM   #341
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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You're being facetious. So, as a goofy comedy character, would you say that Nicholson did a better job than Romero? Or is Romero still king with Nicholson being a second rate version?

On a crazed homicidal level...did Nicholsons Jker display ANY hint of being the kind of guy who would kill and torture people the way he does in the comics? Aside from a hygiene product that kills you with a smile...any ruthless crowbar beatings? And torturing of a girl while her dad is helpless to stop it? So, either he aced that, or he was a second rate homicidal maniac.
I don't think killing your own henchman with the guy's own gun, killing another guy with a pen, and frying a guy with a joy buzzer is second-rate homicidal stuff. At least in this era.

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Old 01-22-2007, 01:51 PM   #342
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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On a crazed homicidal level...did Nicholsons Jker display ANY hint of being the kind of guy who would kill and torture people the way he does in the comics?
Sure he did. I mean, it was drowned out by a lot of his boldly comical antics, but there was definitely some dark material to his actions, and the character's portrayed as dark as he had been written throughout most of the pre-BATMAN '89 period.

And, at the very least, his portrayal of Jack Napier certainly had that. I've always found it fascination how much more sinister, intense, and intimidating Nicholson's Jack Napier is when compared to his Joker - I've always wished he could have kept more continuity between the two performances.

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Old 01-22-2007, 04:06 PM   #343
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

i wouldnt say jack was perfect

but.. he was the first to play the dark physcopath that we love
and he did a good job, so in all cases back in 1990 he nailed it

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Old 01-22-2007, 06:22 PM   #344
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Here's another question about the Batmobile sabotage in Returns. Okay, they had these blueprints of the car... they took the damn car apart, and had tools everywhere...

...and yet, when Batman is trying to figure out what's wrong with the car, he realizes his entire problem is a goofy-looking transponder stuck to the bottom of the car, he punches through the floorboard (somehow... is the 'mobile really that fragile?) and tears the thing off. Problem solved.

Okay. So... let me get this straight. They had to TAKE THE CAR APART in order to ATTACH A TRANSPONDER TO THE BOTTOM? Wouldn't it have been simpler to just reach down there and stick it on there?

And another thing... if there's going to be a transponder at all... why bother telling us they have the blueprints? They don't need blueprints to stick a transponder on there!

And as long as I'm picking... Penguin said they were gonna turn the Batmobile into a ticking time-bomb or something like that. I guess he was speaking figuratively but it was sort of misleading. I thought they were gonna blow it up.
Yeah man. But ya know that's a Burton thing to do. Not saying I like it. imo that kind of silly running around yer @$$ to get to yer elbow doesn't belong in a good Batman movie. And speakin of Penguin . . . why take away his penchant for using a wide vocabulary. I 'kinda' liked Burton's 'Sewer Monster ' Penguin but it just made the character feel too unfamiliar for me.

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Old 01-23-2007, 02:12 PM   #345
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

He became one with the Joker despite a sucky script and vision at the time. Heath Ledger really has a difficult challenge ahead of him.

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Old 01-23-2007, 02:48 PM   #346
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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you are aware joker in BTAS was exactly and i do mean exactly the same as he was in Tim Burton film. also accroding ot ledger and Nolan, joker in the sequel will be more quiet and less Jokerish, more serial killer physcho according to them.
Please oh great gods of filmdom, don't let this be true. Don't let them reduce the Joker to a run of the mill serial killer psycho we've all seen to often in films and on tv. Please.

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Old 01-23-2007, 05:49 PM   #347
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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On a crazed homicidal level...did Nicholsons Jker display ANY hint of being the kind of guy who would kill and torture people the way he does in the comics? Aside from a hygiene product that kills you with a smile...any ruthless crowbar beatings? And torturing of a girl while her dad is helpless to stop it? So, either he aced that, or he was a second rate homicidal maniac.
The Joker you described was a very contemporary version, specifically from the 80's stories Death in the Family and The Killing Joke.

And yes, while I'm sure you know that Burton cites The Killing Joke as a reference (One scene I will admit that seemed to be heavily inspired by it was the "Mirror!" scene, in reference to Joker's first sight of his reflection in the water in TKJ), for the most part Nicholson's Joker is heavily influenced by the 60s, 70s, and particularly his earliest appearances in the 40s.

Nicholson's Joker displayed a sense of humor indicative of Denny O'Neill's Joker, while also retaining the sillier gag antics popularized in the 50s and 60s. But most obviously, his "announcements" (Smilex commercial, parade invitation) were clearly inspired by the radio annoucements from his first appearance (this trait of announcing his crimes is one he's retained forever since). Another clear influence from this first appearance is he and Batman's final mano-a-mano confrontation in the bell-tower (though he was clearly not as physically matched in the movie as he appeared to be in the comic; he tried though!). Moreover, this early depiction of the Joker makes sense in the context of Batman, the entire film was grounded in Batman's earliest adventuries, evident in his use of guns and lethal force.

So, the Nicholson's Joker may not suit your tastes (Heath Ledger's upcoming performance might do the trick, I know I'll probably dig it too), but it was certainly not unfounded in precedent.

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Old 01-27-2012, 10:32 PM   #348
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Jack Nicholson used to be the definitive Joker but now he's become very underrated.

Many people say he's just playing himself, which isn't a fair criticism. I thought the look, the laugh, the voice and the mannerisms were all Joker. Plus, he also had to play Jack Napier as well and make his performance different to that when he 'becomes' Joker. In that sense, he was good if not better than Ledger.

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Old 01-27-2012, 10:53 PM   #349
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Jack Nicholson used to be the definitive Joker but now he's become very underrated.

Many people say he's just playing himself, which isn't a fair criticism. I thought the look, the laugh, the voice and the mannerisms were all Joker. Plus, he also had to play Jack Napier as well and make his performance different to that when he 'becomes' Joker. In that sense, he was good if not better than Ledger.
I agree completely.

Well said.

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Old 01-28-2012, 01:49 AM   #350
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Jack Nicholson used to be the definitive Joker but now he's become very underrated.
He was the only live action Joker, apart from Romero, who was never a serious contender in the campy show.

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Many people say he's just playing himself, which isn't a fair criticism. I thought the look, the laugh, the voice and the mannerisms were all Joker. Plus, he also had to play Jack Napier as well and make his performance different to that when he 'becomes' Joker. In that sense, he was good if not better than Ledger.
I don't think he was just playing himself, but compared to Heath I think Heath obviously put more talent into the role. Heath was unrecognizable. If not for the Cop scene, you would never know Heath Ledger was in TDK. Face, voice, mannerisms. He nailed it.

I could still see and hear Jack when he was the Joker. He didn't change his voice. When he kept applying flesh toned make up it was easy to see Jack there with the Chelsea grin.

Both valid Jokers, but when it comes to talent, Heath was much much better, IMO.

Btw, I have to ask why you bumped such an old thread? It's 5 years old.

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