Bye Bye Batman

[JP]

Jeez. First Fox Kids, now Kids WB? I fking hate 4Kids.

[Abaddon]

they destroy everything they touch

[Dread]

Frankly, I wasn't expecting THE BATMAN to survive past the 5th season. Honestly, when was the last Western cartoon show whose mythos was started after the year 2000 that lasted beyond 5 seasons? And even beforehand?

TEEN TITANS literally catered to every CN demand that it be like anime, and even that ended at 5 seasons. So did X-MEN EVOLUTION. Even most 90's shows rarely lasted beyond 5 seasons, just the episode count was higher (B:TAS' first season had over 50 episodes, because it aired on weekday afternoons) The "Timmverse" shared a continuity but usually had to go from show to show. The 90's Spider-Man cartoon ended after 5 seasons. Of course, all these had their reasons, but my point is getting any cartoon, no matter the episode count or the ratings, to a 6th season is damn near impossible, especially nowadays, when most network cartoon stations rely at least 80% on dubbed anime.

Maybe that is why nostalgia for 80's cartoons is reaching a fever pitch, or at least one reason. The 80's were the last decade when American based cartoons ruled the waves with bold and wacky ideas. The anime wave came in the 90's and hasn't let up.

I am irked if it screws over SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN. I am looking forward to that show and Marvel has always had some poor luck on the small screen when compared to DC/WB, at least within the past decade. The annoncement is for the takeover to start for the 2008-2009 season, which likely means Fall 2008. Spidey starts in March 2008 so it essentially has a few months to either be a ratings hit, or likely be replaced with YU GI OH: THE NEXT MUTATION UNDERGROUND EXTREME or something.

Heck, I am a little sore with 4Kids essentially mistreating, then all but ruining TMNT. That was one of the greatest comic based cartoons to come out in a decade and they burned the final season and then forced the creators to go more "fluffy" and pander more.

On the other hand, 4Kids overall is owned or shares some sort of relationship with Warner Brothers, so there could be some sort of compromise.

[TheVileOne]

Well I'm certainly not going to miss this show. It lasted 5 seasons, shouldn't you all at least be happy about that?

People *****ed so much about JLU being over, but the show had a good run and over 90 episodes. Very few action/super hero shows manage to do that.

Also to Dread, X-men from the 90's was on for 6 or 7 seasons.

I personally am looking forward to Wolverine and the X-men.

Iron Man unfortunately got canned after the second season, after basically becoming one of the best super hero animated cartoons ever. That first season was pretty crappy at times, but season 2 was a total 180.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Well I'm certainly not going to miss this show. It lasted 5 seasons, shouldn't you all at least be happy about that?

People *****ed so much about JLU being over, but the show had a good run and over 90 episodes. Very few action/super hero shows manage to do that.

Also to Dread, X-men from the 90's was on for 6 or 7 seasons.

I personally am looking forward to Wolverine and the X-men.

Iron Man unfortunately got canned after the second season, after basically becoming one of the best super hero animated cartoons ever. That first season was pretty crappy at times, but season 2 was a total 180.

I know about the X-Men. I didn't say NO cartoon made it beyond 5 seasons. I just said it was very rare, even in the 90's which were considered a high point by many.

I am concerned about Spectacular Spider-Man, only having a season or less to impress new masters that would be happy to kill it to have more anime on their block.

[TheVileOne]

At least Spectacular Spider-man has been picked up. You should also be concerned about Wolverine and The X-men, which still hasn't even been picked up for a US broadcast yet.

And you know, not all anime shows are bad. It's simply that we aren't getting some cool super hero shows the caliber of Timm/Dini's BTAS or STAS anymore. I mean while the live action movies weren't that great, for a while, we did get a bunch of great super hero animated shows in the 90's.

There are still great animated shows out there.

I'll also say this. The reason I started liking anime was because it was more mature, bolder, and more complex than the usual cartoons we'd see in the US. Every once in a while we get some really cool stuff like Exo-Squad. But it doesn't happen enough. Like this The Batman series which ran for 5 years, total crap.

[Asteroid-Man]

You're right! No More Wolverine and the X-men and/or Iron Man!

[Bishop2]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

At least Spectacular Spider-man has been picked up.

But not for the fall 2008-2009 season. It's only been picked up for one year BEFORE that. Looks like it's already been cancelled after that's up.

[Superhero 101]

Wee need to sign a petition or something and send it to WB this is absolutely ridicoulous!!! I am so looking forward to spidey!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheVileOne]

I'm honestly not too broken up about it if such is the case. I really like a lot of the guys working on the show. Greg Weisman is a master to me for having created Gargoyles.

However, I think we already got a great quality Spidey TV show. This one just doesn't look as good and looks a little more juvenile.

I am very much looking forward to Wolverine And The X-men though. So I hope it gets picked up soon.

[Orb]

So we are not getting any episodes? ....

[Gold Samurai]

Originally Posted by Bishop2

But not for the fall 2008-2009 season. It's only been picked up for one year BEFORE that. Looks like it's already been cancelled after that's up.

there could be the possibility it could be stretched out to two seasons. Maybe there's going to be 26 eps.

13 for season 1
13 for season 2

but 2 is the most because I see 4kids wanting to dump this as soon as its done

"okay we did the show now lets cancel it"

[MangleBoP]

The only CN original action show still on the air is Ben10, which is pretty good, but could be better.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

At least Spectacular Spider-man has been picked up. You should also be concerned about Wolverine and The X-men, which still hasn't even been picked up for a US broadcast yet.

And you know, not all anime shows are bad. It's simply that we aren't getting some cool super hero shows the caliber of Timm/Dini's BTAS or STAS anymore. I mean while the live action movies weren't that great, for a while, we did get a bunch of great super hero animated shows in the 90's.

There are still great animated shows out there.

I'll also say this. The reason I started liking anime was because it was more mature, bolder, and more complex than the usual cartoons we'd see in the US. Every once in a while we get some really cool stuff like Exo-Squad. But it doesn't happen enough. Like this The Batman series which ran for 5 years, total crap.

I watch anime, I know there is plenty of great stuff out there. It just usually isn't what 4kids decides to air. 4kids not only airs pandering kiddie stuff, they rewrite and dub it to make it even more pandering. They also made a great TMNT, which I am grateful for, and then pulled out the rug at the end.

I honestly am not concerned for WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN, likely because I don't care about it. We essentially have opposite views on that and SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN. The 90's show that Spidey had was his best but utterly crippled by BS & P, embarassingly shoddy animation and some dubious writing calls. We have never really had a Spider-Man show that had it all; good action, animation, acting, AND writing. Considering he is Marvel's #1, that is shameful. At least DC has done right at least once by their Big Two on the small screen.

There are still great animated shows out there, but they get fewer and fewer, especially as networks seem to go for the cheaper dubbing alternative vs. funding more original fare. Why do you think 80's franchises never die? Besides the fact that kid fans of those are adults now, it is because that decade, up until the mid 90's, was loaded with original animated ideas. I doubt we ever will see that in the West again.

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

I'm honestly not too broken up about it if such is the case. I really like a lot of the guys working on the show. Greg Weisman is a master to me for having created Gargoyles.

However, I think we already got a great quality Spidey TV show. This one just doesn't look as good and looks a little more juvenile.

I am very much looking forward to Wolverine And The X-men though. So I hope it gets picked up soon.

I won't judge SS-M until I see it.

[bulletbillx]

Originally Posted by Dread

I watch anime, I know there is plenty of great stuff out there. It just usually isn't what 4kids decides to air. 4kids not only airs pandering kiddie stuff, they rewrite and dub it to make it even more pandering. They also made a great TMNT, which I am grateful for, and then pulled out the rug at the end.

I honestly am not concerned for WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN, likely because I don't care about it. We essentially have opposite views on that and SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN. The 90's show that Spidey had was his best but utterly crippled by BS & P, embarassingly shoddy animation and some dubious writing calls. We have never really had a Spider-Man show that had it all; good action, animation, acting, AND writing. Considering he is Marvel's #1, that is shameful. At least DC has done right at least once by their Big Two on the small screen.

There are still great animated shows out there, but they get fewer and fewer, especially as networks seem to go for the cheaper dubbing alternative vs. funding more original fare. Why do you think 80's franchises never die? Besides the fact that kid fans of those are adults now, it is because that decade, up until the mid 90's, was loaded with original animated ideas. I doubt we ever will see that in the West again.



I won't judge SS-M until I see it.

Even the good stuff 4kids gets they ruin when dubbing. One Piece subbed is excellent. 4kids dub completely changes it into a different and significantly worse show.

[Warhammer]

4Kids is a plague.
They are a huge reason for the decline in Saturday morning cartoons. They should have just stuck with being behind Pokemon and a 1 or 2 of anime like their early days.

[Abaddon]

Saturday morning cartoons are a wasteland of anime and girly crap.

[Warhammer]

Word.

[TheVileOne]

4Kids did create a decent new TMNT series.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

4Kids did create a decent new TMNT series.

Mirage created it, they just distributed it and helped it along. Then, they essentially ordered them to switch gears to FAST FORWARD, which is universally panned.

I'm grateful for the time we had, but they left the final season to only air overseas and whatnot, left a bitter taste.

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, but it still had a good run for a while. Isn't that what matters. Once again, most animated action adventure or comic book super hero shows don't even last that long.

People need to be more concerned about Wolverine and The X-men getting picked up or not for the US.

My kids (and husband) are going to be really pissed at this news. Even though I don't watch the shows it pisses me off too. Why would you ditch super hero shows for low quality garbage? I'd much rather have my kids watching Batman, Spider-man, etc. instead of crap like Pokemon.

What a shame.

[UltimateJustin]

Even if the alleged good anime exists, it doesnt exist in the form of children's cartoons. The best anime is super violent to make up for its "crazy japanese wackiness" plot, and dont exactly fit with the tradition of great Saturday morning cartoons.

The thing is, great American shows like Exo-Squad, Gargoyles, TMNT '03, Batman: TAS and Spiderman: TAS were great in spite of the heavy restrictions put on them and S&P issues that the japanese dont have to worry about. If only Gargoyles and BTAS and probably alot of recent shows had the ability to do whatever they wanted, we'd have even better shows. If American animaters could actually put on screen the ideas they come up with, people would care less about anime because it would rock so hard. None of this has to do with 4kids taking over and putting the low-end anime shows out, but I'm just saying, people will always remember the old Fox Kids block and no kid in fifteen years will recall what was going on in the haze of animated card game shows where cat faced japanese children yelled annoyingly and danced around and shot mushrooms out of their mouths.

[Robin91939]

I didn't think that Spectacular Spider-man was even on the air yet?

-R

[Timstuff]

This is basically the equivalent to Jeremiah's Hamburgers getting bulldozed over to make room for a McDonald's.

Let's just pray to the good Lord that Cartoon Network picks up Spectacular Spider-Man.