The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > X-Men > The Comics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2008, 07:52 PM   #26
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
You are right in that Lorna first made her reappearance in New X-men. But Austen didnt have to pick up on what she said there. It could have been just crazy jibberish that Lorna was spouting and thats what I thought at first since she emerged from the Genosha rubble absolutely crazy and not all completely there. Austen went further and made her have some behind the scenes DNA test to prove he was her father
When Austen talks in his interview above about the roots of Marvel bringing back Lorna as Magneto's daughter he is likely talking about three different things he read before he wrote Uncanny. If you read Uncanny 443 its clear he read the issues with Lorna on Genosha having a teacher/student type relationship with Mags, he then as he said above read her calling him her father in New X-Men, but he also read what Havok was doing before he picked up the character which was Mutant X. In that series the writers decided to make it a big part of the 32 issue series that Lorna was Magneto's daughter.

And, in Austen's mind why would Marvel do all this. Including having them have a father/daughter relationship in two other late 1990s alternate timelines other then Mutant X which was AU if Marvel wasn't going back to that plotline. So in his eyes he simply filled in what Morrison or someone else at Marvel set up for him answering why Lorna called Magneto her father in New X-Men 132.



Quote:
It was a dumb plot twist especially since not much has been done with it since.
A fair bit has been done with it all AU since then, but no writer can have Lorna and Magneto interact in the 616 until Marvel decideds it is time to spring their big Magneto-Lorna origins story. And, as the editor Lowe said it will be a really big deal when they do it, so they are waiting for the right time when they really want to promote Magneto, probably near the time the Magneto film comes out in 2 to 3 years.


Last edited by jmc247; 03-06-2008 at 08:13 PM.
jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 08:01 PM   #27
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
house of M doesnt count?
They have had a fair bit of interaction since 2002, but all of it AU, as I said before Marvel writers can't have them interact in the 616 together until Marvel tells them it is time to do her origins story, because there are too many questions between them that can only be answered in a big origins story.




jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 04:08 PM   #28
insane polaris
Side-Kick
 
insane polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: England
Posts: 337
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

i can't wait at least 2 years for an origins story.

there's a question... apart from havok and iceman who else could polaris go out with? ignore whether there already in relationships with people.

i was thinking gambit (does anyone have any images of remy and lorna together - fanart or official)

insane polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 06:06 PM   #29
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,292
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by insane polaris View Post
i can't wait at least 2 years for an origins story.

there's a question... apart from havok and iceman who else could polaris go out with? ignore whether there already in relationships with people.

i was thinking gambit (does anyone have any images of remy and lorna together - fanart or official)
You read my mind! I LOVE the idea of Lorna and Gambit. They are one potential pairing I can get behind. I think they could have fun together. They were on the same team back in X-men not too long ago but unfortunetly they didnt interact much.

This is from UXM 425. Looks like Lorna might be secretly attracted to the cajun


Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 06:20 PM   #30
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,292
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
When Austen talks in his interview above about the roots of Marvel bringing back Lorna as Magneto's daughter he is likely talking about three different things he read before he wrote Uncanny. If you read Uncanny 443 its clear he read the issues with Lorna on Genosha having a teacher/student type relationship with Mags, he then as he said above read her calling him her father in New X-Men, but he also read what Havok was doing before he picked up the character which was Mutant X. In that series the writers decided to make it a big part of the 32 issue series that Lorna was Magneto's daughter.

And, in Austen's mind why would Marvel do all this. Including having them have a father/daughter relationship in two other late 1990s alternate timelines other then Mutant X which was AU if Marvel wasn't going back to that plotline. So in his eyes he simply filled in what Morrison or someone else at Marvel set up for him answering why Lorna called Magneto her father in New X-Men 132.





A fair bit has been done with it all AU since then, but no writer can have Lorna and Magneto interact in the 616 until Marvel decideds it is time to spring their big Magneto-Lorna origins story. And, as the editor Lowe said it will be a really big deal when they do it, so they are waiting for the right time when they really want to promote Magneto, probably near the time the Magneto film comes out in 2 to 3 years.
I much prefer this original story. I liked Lorna and Magneto's relationship as 2 people who came to respect each other without needing to be related. There really wasnt any reason to tie them together like that. I liked the dynamic they already had


Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 06:36 PM   #31
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

The evidence Bobby gave as Lorna pointed out in Uncanny 431 was as weak as hell. It is second or third hand crap, for all we know right now Lorna's mother is alive and well and they certainly could have her be alive and well in her origins story without any difficulty. I think the writers at the time knew they made a mistake and the evidence was far too weak which was why nearly a year later they retconned the Magneto in the story into a robot.

There was no reason for that retcon way after the story was done other then to drive home the notion that he/it was lying a year ago talking to Lorna. However, that retcon only proved that there was some insidious plot at work, not that the story Bobby told her was true. They wouldn't have had to retcon Magneto's appearence in Uncanny 50-52 if they simply had her leave him because she disagreed with his insane villainous Silver Age actions. Instead they left the message that she would have fought for him no matter what his villainy simply because she thinks they are related.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
I liked Lorna and Magneto's relationship as 2 people who came to respect each other without needing to be related.
Well certainly their relationship was fine on Genosha, up until Dark Seduction when Fabian Nicieza decided he would change their relationship into a complete copy of Magneto's relationship to Wanda and Pietro. In DS he turned her into in essence an adopted daughter of Magneto, but that wasn't the problem with what he did. The problem was he basically said in the text that Magneto was using her like Wanda and Pietro and she 'discovers' at the end that he was simply 'a racist monster' in Lorna's words, in essence turning her relationship with him into a clone of Wanda and Pietro's relationship to him.

Nicieza was basically cutting and pasting Wanda's quotes about him and having Lorna say them. However, Morrison and Austen undid what Nicieza tried to do in Dark Seduction. It wasn't having her be his daughter which really changed her feelings toward him post Genosha, it was the Genoshan genocide which changed her feelings about Magneto and the mutant rights fight. I think what they did was smart, because if they kept their relationship a clone of Wanda and Pietro's no one would care about it. Having it be a sort of reverse mirror image of Wanda and Pietro's made tne relationship stand out from the other two post Dark Seduction.



Last edited by jmc247; 03-10-2008 at 04:51 PM.
jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 12:08 PM   #32
insane polaris
Side-Kick
 
insane polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: England
Posts: 337
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

I think Polaris should agree with Magneto for the most part... that Mutants are superior over humans... but stays with the X-men inorder to protect mutants.

Just on a side note... i wonder if Wanda will ever return to the X-books as a member of the X-men or Brotherhood

insane polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 01:45 PM   #33
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by insane polaris View Post
I think Polaris should agree with Magneto for the most part... that Mutants are superior over humans... but stays with the X-men inorder to protect mutants.
The core of 616 Lorna as well and Magneto's beliefs today isn't that human's are weak and inferior so mutants should dominate and take over. It is that humans are ruthless and fearful of differences and that mutantkind needs to be proactive in defending their race.



Quote:
Just on a side note... i wonder if Wanda will ever return to the X-books as a member of the X-men or Brotherhood
She belongs to the Avengers and Bendis isn't going to give her up. The X-books wanted Wanda to play a bigger role in the X-books the past few years, but Bendis nixed that. Bendis says he has long term plans for Wanda as a character.

jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 04:45 PM   #34
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,292
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

It always annoyed me how Wanda started off as an X-men character, is the daughter of the X-men's greatest enemy, is a powerful and important mutant, yet in her 40+ years of existance has had very little to do with the team and franchise. At least Marvel has let Quicksilver be a part of the X-line over the years and while an Avenger character at heart, he is still very much an X-character in many ways. I wish the same were true for Wanda

Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 05:09 PM   #35
Colossal Spoons
Gotterdammerung
 
Colossal Spoons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: A bar on Oa
Posts: 62,144
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Lorna needs mutant powers back. It irks me that she's runnin on some crazy Apoc upgrade.

__________________
Once you get over the need to prove everybody wrong and "correct" opinions you disagree with, the internet becomes a much more pleasant and less frustrating place.
Colossal Spoons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 05:15 PM   #36
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,292
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossal Spoons View Post
Lorna needs mutant powers back. It irks me that she's runnin on some crazy Apoc upgrade.
Its really a non issue since theres no difference in how she's written either way

Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 06:50 PM   #37
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossal Spoons View Post
Lorna needs mutant powers back. It irks me that she's runnin on some crazy Apoc upgrade.
I certainly agree with you there. The X-Men are an elite group of mutants who are fighting to defend mutant rights. Being a mutant is the one unifying thing for all X-Men.

Cyke didn't kick Xavier out of the mansion because he betrayed them years ago, he kicked him out because as he said Xavier "wasn't one of them anymore". Emma said virtually the same thing to Lorna after she lost her X-gene that they didn't want her any more.

X-Men are mutants fighting for mutant rights. There are a whole bunch of teams for characters that get their powers from technology and other means, but the X-Men isn't one of them. While being a mutant might not matter for the next two years of her being in space. When they get back to Earth it is going to matter quite alot. Because, the mutant rights fight is not only the core point of the X-Men it has been one of the most important things to Lorna as a character for the past two decades.

Finally, being a mutant is Lorna's genetic birthright.



Returning Lorna's X-gene could become a big story line point in 3 or 4 years, because Magneto is certain to eventually try to find a way to reactivate mutants X-genes.


Last edited by jmc247; 03-13-2008 at 07:10 PM.
jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 07:11 PM   #38
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,292
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
I certainly agree with you there. The X-Men are an elite group of mutants who are fighting to defend mutant rights. Being a mutant is the one unifying thing for all X-Men.

Cyke didn't kick Xavier out of the mansion because he betrayed them years ago, he kicked him out because as he said Xavier "wasn't one of them anymore". Emma said virtually the same thing to Lorna after she lost her X-gene that they didn't want her any more.
That makes them sound a bit racist and just like Magneto just with different methods. The team has acceptted non-mutant members in the past. Mimic, Longshot, Juggernaut, and have had many other non-mutant allies stay at the mansion

Quote:
Returning Lorna's X-gene could become a big story line point in 3 or 4 years, because Magneto is certain to eventually try to find a way to reactivate mutants X-genes
Like I said, I dont even think it matters with her as she has her powers back. What differences does it make how she got them when she is being written the exact same way with no difference in how her powers are portrayed? Lorna being depowered was only a plot point to show one current X-man at the time, losing their powers. She just happened to be the one chose but that was quickly fixxed. Reactivating the X-gene is only significant for those who are still depowered and havent been blessed as Lorna has. I dont see how it will change things or make a difference for her character, one way or the other


Last edited by Havok83; 03-13-2008 at 07:15 PM.
Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 07:12 PM   #39
Colossal Spoons
Gotterdammerung
 
Colossal Spoons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: A bar on Oa
Posts: 62,144
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
Its really a non issue since theres no difference in how she's written either way
Yeah, but it's just like Morph from Exiles. He may act the same, but we all know it's Proteus...and that sucks

__________________
Once you get over the need to prove everybody wrong and "correct" opinions you disagree with, the internet becomes a much more pleasant and less frustrating place.
Colossal Spoons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 07:16 PM   #40
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
That makes them sound a bit racist and just like Magneto just with different methods. The team has acceptted non-mutant members in the past. Mimic, Longshot, Juggernaut, and have had many other non-mutant allies stay at the mansion
The X-Men are supposed to represent mutant interests and are supposed to be fighting for mutant interests, they aren't supposed to be a superhero team like the Avengers fighting for the interests of everyone.

Think of them as the NAACP. While yes they have sheltered and helped non mutants in the past as I am sure the NAACP has helped whites in the past. Their goal remains the protection and betterment of the mutant race. The Acolytes are like the Black Panther's more strident and willing to use force for the benifit of their race. That said, Cyke is bluring the lines quite a bit between the Acolytes and X-Men today.


Last edited by jmc247; 03-13-2008 at 07:51 PM.
jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 07:30 PM   #41
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
She just happened to be the one chose but that was quickly fixxed.
Mutants are supposed to be a different race with their X-gene seperating them from humans. Lorna is no longer a member of the mutant race.

Mutants are supposed to be a minority group trying to coexist with humans. Being a mutant has actually been far more important to Lorna then the average X-Man since day one, because of her central role inbetween Magneto and Xavier's philosophies about mutant rights. Hell, her big appearence in Uncanny X-Men 50 was titled The Queen of Mutants.



Last edited by jmc247; 03-13-2008 at 07:48 PM.
jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 07:54 PM   #42
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,292
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
The X-Men are supposed to represent mutant interests and are supposed to be fighting for mutant interests, they aren't supposed to be a superhero team like the Avengers fighting for the interests of everyone.

Think of them as the NAACP. While yes they have sheltered and helped non mutants in the past as I am sure the NAACP has helped whites in the past. Their goal remains the protection and betterment of the mutant race.
yeah but what you posted amounted to the X-men spefically discriminating others solely for the fact that they werent like them. Cyclops didnt turn on Xavier bc he wasnt a mutant. He had issues with him that go far deeper than that as seen in Deadly Genesis. Emma, well she's biyatch. She did kicked Moonstar out as well but it was later implied that she did what she did to the depowered mutants for their own protection, not bc she had no use for them

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
Mutants are supposed to be a different race with their X-gene seperating them from humans. Lorna is no longer a member of the mutant race.

Mutants are supposed to be a minority group trying to coexist with humans. Being a mutant has actually been more important to Lorna then the average X-Man since day one, because of her central role inbetween Magneto and Xavier's philosophies about mutant rights. Hell, her big appearence in Uncanny X-Men 50 was titled The Queen of Mutants.
BUt this implies that Lorna has or will turn her back bc she is not a mutant. That is not the case. Lorna has not changed. She is still the same person with the same ideals. There has been zero evidence that she no longer identifies with mutants. Why would she? Its just a gene that she no longer has. From the average person that looks at her on the street, she is a mutant with her green hair, flight and magnetic powers. The discrimination will still be there and she will still feel the effects of being the minority. No one will look at her and go, oh she doesnt have that X gene anymore, so she's one of us


Last edited by Havok83; 03-13-2008 at 08:55 PM.
Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 08:03 PM   #43
Valechan
Banned User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wundagore Mountain
Posts: 5,651
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

The X-Men are for peaceful COEXISTENCE, they're not fighting for mutant rights, they are fighting for the entire human race (both flatscans and muties).

Valechan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 12:24 AM   #44
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valechan View Post
The X-Men are for peaceful COEXISTENCE, they're not fighting for mutant rights, they are fighting for the entire human race (both flatscans and muties).
I hear that line too from the NAACP. We are out to help everyone black and white. While the reality is they exist to protect and defend the rights of a minority group.

Sure, if Galactus shows up and threatens all life on Earth human and mutant they very well might get involved. But, usually they leave human problems to the Avengers and other groups. The same is true of Magneto, if they had a threat to all life on Earth he would get involved, but by in large he would leave human problems to be dealt with by humans.

Quote:
No one will look at her and go, oh she doesnt have that X gene anymore, so she's one of us
If she doesn't tell anyone outside of the X-Men that she isn't a mutant then she won't have a problem as no one would know. However, if they do find out many will be contemptuous of her like Exodus was almostly openly contemptuous of Magneto thinking he is a human now, but fearing he might have been reimpowered by the Collective. Magneto may be in the same boat as Polaris, while according to Bru it gave him his powers back somehow. But, I don't think it gave him back his X-gene as Wanda magically erased the X-gene from existance except for those Strange protected. Thus, while he may have his ability to minipulate Magnetism back he might not be a mutant. If that is true, he still will find followers and support amoungst many mutants based on his previous reputation and actions, but he won't entirely feel right to them without an X-gene.

In fact it is quite possible right now that the entire HoM are no longer mutants, including Scarlet Witch and Pietro. Which isn't an immediate problem, but something Marvel should fix down the road. However, they are going to have to find a way to tone down Wanda's powers if they are to bring her back. Magneto, Polaris, Wanda, and Pietro have a genetic birthright and while a machine may be a temp stopgap measure, it shouldn't replace their genetic birthright permently.


Last edited by jmc247; 03-14-2008 at 06:49 AM.
jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 03:14 PM   #45
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Lorna info hot off the press

Quote:
I received an email from an X-fan who attended the X-Men Panel at Wizard World yesterday and spoke the writers and editors in attendance, and has a bit of information for Rachel fans on the status of the Starjammers:

A couple other things (not to get anyone in trouble for revealing this):
- Rachel, Alex and Lorna will return to X-books, eventually.

- Rachel & the Starjammers' story will likely continue in Uncanny X-Men.

- No Annihilation or Guardians of the Galaxy tie-in with the Starjammers are planned.

http://www.rachel-summers.com/2008/0...es-report.html

jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 06:02 PM   #46
insane polaris
Side-Kick
 
insane polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: England
Posts: 337
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

"Will return EVENTUALLY"
that sounds like it could take ages.

insane polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 07:12 PM   #47
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by insane polaris View Post
"Will return EVENTUALLY"
that sounds like it could take ages.
It certainly does sound that way. No X-book writer wants her right now and that leaves her in long term limbo.

What will finally bring her back is either a new writer shows up who wants to use her character or Marvel decides they no longer want to hear fans asking them when they will tell Lorna's big origins story and decide to finally do it.

Unlike Wanda and Pietro Marvel doesn't see the need to have Lorna be in other comics like First Class or the Ultimates even though she is in limbo. Suffice it to say it is a very bad time to be a Lorna fan.

jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 07:16 PM   #48
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,292
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by insane polaris View Post
"Will return EVENTUALLY"
that sounds like it could take ages.
yeah that goes without saying. I dont even know why they had to say that. Eventually could mean this summer, next year or 3 years from now

Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 07:59 PM   #49
jmc247
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 264
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
yeah that goes without saying. I dont even know why they had to say that. Eventually could mean this summer, next year or 3 years from now
At least last time in the 1990s when Lorna was off the X-books in limbo she was in both X-Men Hidden Years and Mutant X at the same time. I liked Mutant X, it was a chance for Havok to shine and Lorna was well written as well. Lorna is going into limbo today and unlike the 1990s it doesn't look like she will be anywhere in the comics at all.





Last edited by jmc247; 03-17-2008 at 08:15 PM.
jmc247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 08:45 PM   #50
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,292
Default Re: Official Polaris Thread

Alternate universes are okay I guess but they dont compare to the real thing. Ive been pissed that Marvel killed off Jean and want her back in 616. She's in Ultimate and First Class (which I dont read) so I guess its their way of throwing crumbs at her fans. I really wish that Lorna wasnt in space bc that effectivaly killed the possiblity of any other writer picking her up for a guest appearance here and there.

Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.