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#176 | |||||||
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- The Penguin being a freak, raised by penguins??? That's stupid. - Non-existant story and plot, just bits thrown around - Penguin running for mayor? The Adam West show did that better. - The whole movie is there to please Burton's ego. It's not about Batman, really. That guy isn't Batman. It is a short man with a deranged minds who blows up people. Yeah, yeah, the original Bob Kane stuff. Like the guy there showed any mannerism of KeatonBatman. Yeah right. If I want to see the end30s Batman I watch "The Shadow", that's more Batman than Batman Returns, or better "Psychoman Returns With Depth"! Quote:
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#177 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Oh snappppp, well excuuuuse us mister "burton teh suck, keaton teh short 'n lame, I'm older than everyone else"
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"When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher's knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross"- Harry Callahan |
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#178 | |
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So he cannot judge the way Batman was before. Of course he can read the old stories in a "retroactive" way, but he would still be spoiled by the modern comics. |
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#179 |
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It is a kind of selfdefence, because he said that I first came in contact with Batman through Batman Begins and that is so wrong. Nothing about "I am older than you"
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#180 |
Side-Kick
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Oh okay, I understand, just thought you were playing the "i know more than you" card
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"When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher's knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross"- Harry Callahan |
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#181 |
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No, that was "DocLathropBrown".
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#182 |
Cool Rider
Join Date: Oct 2007
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*SIGH*
I'm tired of trying to defend this movie... you don't like it? You have:
So stop unrelentlessly bashing a 16 year old movie just cause it didn't suit your taste. ![]()
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Michelle Pfeiffer: Where is Kyra? ---- The Wizard of Lies mother! ---- Murder on the Orient Express Ant-Man and the Wasp |
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#183 | |
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Your second statment is most ridiculous thing I've heard you say yet. |
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#184 |
I Heart Amazons
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Yes it does come across as somewhat condescending cause I'll be turning 25 this summer but I've been a Batman fan since the late 80's. My first comic that I ever bought with my own money was the first part of A Lonely Place of Dying. Prior to that a lot of comics were handed down to me from older cousin's particularly Marvel titles. Age doesn't define knowledge. Yes I have "retroactively" gone back to revisit the golden, silver and bronze age of the character's history for the sake of having a well rounded understanding of my favorite fictional characer. Cause of that I've also found that I understand more about Batman than a lot of fans who are twice my age though I never brag about it.
This is not my debate but I think Doc's point is that you have put forth arguments that you yourself have yet to have clearly defined. I mean you're gonna say he's a psychopath in BR cool but please explain as to why he is that will actually give the debate more weight. Personally I saw a lot of "Batman" in that movie throughout the pic he did a lot more in terms of detective work and very heroic acts than he ever did in terms of psychopathic behavior. So I could see why others can't see where you're coming from cause I can't either. Please elaborate a bit more.
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I enjoy comic book adaptations but I'm a comic book fan first and foremost. Not a comic book movie fan. |
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#185 |
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Where was Batman a detective in Burton's movies? He wasn't.
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#186 | |
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No, it's not. It's just an overlooked truth. Judging the past is always difficult. And the Batman was never like Burton's Batman. That's a fact. Hell, people like Frank Miller, Matt Wagner and John Byrne didn't like the Burton movies at all. |
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#187 |
I Heart Amazons
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For starters he cracked The Joker's poison code and deduced who he really was in the first film by looking into the man's criminal profile and experimenting by combining diffirent beauty products. In the second he found out the true intentions behind The Penguin's plan we see scenes prior to this where you see him figuring it out whether in the batcave or while he is patrolling. He also found out the truth behind Max Schreck's nuclear power plant suggestion. Just because he didn't have a trenchcoat, a magnifying glass and a pipe in his mouth while he figured this out and we didn't see him go "AHA! elemantary!!!" doesn't mean he didn't do detective work.
As for your latter post Alan Moore can't stand the works of Frank Miller including his Batman stuff. Richard Donner, Jeph Loeb and Mark Waid are amongst many who hated what John Byrne did with Superman in the mid 80's leading into the 90's. Does that mean their works were not true to the essence and many themes of the mythos they worked on? absolutely not it just means that all these creators are human beings just like us who also have their own opinions.
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I enjoy comic book adaptations but I'm a comic book fan first and foremost. Not a comic book movie fan. |
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#188 | |
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![]() Are you now reaching to the insecurity of "this writer or artist didn't like it, in his opinion it was bad so it's definitely true!" On that same token, Alex Ross has stated Joker's origin in B'89 is far superior to what Moore created in The Killing Joke.... just because he said it doesn't make it so. You can do better.
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"When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher's knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross"- Harry Callahan |
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#189 | |
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You fleshed out your feelings into a more cohesive form. I have no more complaints. You expanded beyond "Batman Returns sucks!", which is what I asked you to do. But your further arguments are still flawed. It's clear thay you only dislike Returns because it's not done how you wanted it to be. So much so that you've written off seeing anything good in it. I didn't like the idea of the Penguin being so insanely vicious, but that doesn't mean I discount the accuacy of the film in relation to the comic books. Batman wasn't a detective in Burton's films..... what a ridiculous statement. And easily proven wrong, as Cain did. Besides Forever and 1966's Batman: The Movie, the Burton films were the ONLY Batman films where Batman was a detective. Maybe you need to go back and read some more back issues before you go around claiming that Batman Returns "isn't a Batman movie." And I was pulling the "I know more than you" card? What do you think you just did, by infurring that your age makes you more right than me?
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This summer, the great adventure returns... Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 05.22.08 Last edited by DocLathropBrown; 04-06-2008 at 12:52 PM. |
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#190 | ||||
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#191 | |
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Once you can answer that question you'll know(but still disregard) that Burton captured it wonderfully.
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"When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher's knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross"- Harry Callahan |
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#192 |
The Clown Prince of Crime
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How do you know that? Just because he had his info stored on his computer doesn't mean his computer figured it all out for him.
He investigated the background of the Red Triangle gang after The Penguin made his presence known, and discovered that Penguin had been a member of them. More detective work there.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#193 | ||
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#194 | |
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![]() Burton even wanted to turn Superman into some gothic cyborg. That's Burton's vision! |
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#195 |
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Arguing with this guy is like arguing with a hoola hoop. Whatever you say just goes right through him.
He isn't interested in being fair, so when he's proven wrong, he just ignores it. I wouldn't waste time arguing with him any more.
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This summer, the great adventure returns... Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 05.22.08 |
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#196 |
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What Burton wanted to do on Superman is irrelevant to what he did with Batman.
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#197 |
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Yes the computer did it for him because it doesn't take a person to operate a computer and input information. You see the meeting between him and Schreck he clearly goes "Gotham City has a power surplus so I'm wondering, what's your angle?" he knew there was something fishy there.
With the Penguin he looked at old articles that stated that some children who went to the red triangle circus ended up kidnapped and missing and the only one who wasn't questioned by authorities was the aquatic bird boy because he dissapeared before the law could reach him. Also he sees the Penguin at the hall of records looking through birth certificates and jotting down names and tells Alfred "I think he knows who his parents are". He knew there was something to look into there as well. Superman is my second favorite fictional character of all time like Batman I appreciate all the interpretations. Also I will point out that writers like Grant Morisson and Geoff Johns who have been considered by fanboys as 2 writers who really do understand Superman had positive things to say about Byrne's MOS. Hell that's one of my top interpretations as well. Not faithful to the essence of the character? are you kidding? he was still a self less hero who valued the lives of innocents above all others. He was still a farm boy who loved his parents and hometown dearly. Just because those themes were presented differently doesn't mean they're not there. Actually I'd say he did more for the character than most before him as he clearly also defined that Clark Kent, Kal-El and Superman are all 3 different parts of the same whole and in turn that made Supes and his mythology even more well rounded. There is a reason that lasted as canon for over 20 years.
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I enjoy comic book adaptations but I'm a comic book fan first and foremost. Not a comic book movie fan. |
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#198 | ||
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That's not guess work. That's detective work. He wasn't guessing. He knew it was The Penguin.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#199 |
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yeah, yeah. Just because I do not sing "Praise the lord! Everyone is true to Batman just in a different way!" it's a waste of time. yeah, yeah, yeah. And I am fair! It's just not really difficult to argue against a movie where the superficial parts (Batman being a guy called Bruce Wayne, having a cave and so on) are there. But in the essence he doesn't act like Batman, he is not Batman. And almost no other character is like his comic counterpart. The only one I can think of is the Joker.
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#200 | |
Side-Kick
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I guess that Burton's filmmaking style is too vague to help catch Parents-Gun-Bat's imagination.
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This summer, the great adventure returns... Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 05.22.08 |
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