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Old 05-11-2008, 10:04 PM   #1
tviceman
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Default What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

I just finished watching Transformers for probably the sixth or seventh time and although I've come to these conclusions long before my latest viewing, I just wanted to share my thoughts on what I think the franchise needs to do in the next installment to improve upon the first. Most of this is all general thoughts, but I think it's all valuable in following to make TF2 successful and BETTER than the first.



1. The most important needs to be in cosmetic changes to some of the robots and in the appearance of new ones. The first time I saw this film I had a very difficult time distinguishing one robot from another during up close scenes. Obvious, clear markers need to be on the main robots (a la Prime is blue, Bumblebee yellow, Ratchet green & yellow) to help distinguish them during the close up scenes.

2. I enjoy a good dose of humor mixed throughout an action movie. However, some scenes in TF weren't comical but rather straight up silly. Cut out the silly, campy, completely unbelievable humor. For instance, the initial sector seven scene at Sam's house. Completely silly. The EXACT same lines could have been recited during that entire scene using different vocal tones and body language, projecting a more foreboding situation rather than an eye-rolling, unbelievable one.

4. Have a GOOD story. Much of TF1 was incohesive and left rather large, obvious plot holes. Here's a very general story I came up with in two minutes which, I think, is a great starting point. The Decepticons could trick the nations of Earth by sabotaging various important landmarks, causing the U.S. and European nations to go to war against each other. That way, while the humans fight each other, the Decepticons return in large numbers to attack the Autobots and to steal Prime's Matrix (as well as the remains of the all spark).

5. Don't get too complicated with the story. Don't fit more into a two hour movie than what is necessary. When this happens, you get X3 or Pirates 2 & 3. Those films did well because they rode the success of their predecessors. Please don't do this with Transformers.

6. Use the Transformation sound more often. It's a kick a$$, goosebumps inducing sound.

7. Pull the camera back (zoom out) during some of the ultra-intense action scenes. Just a little bit.



All this, plus more robot screen time. I know all of this has probably been said at one point or another, I just wanted to get it off my chest while it was still fresh in my mind. Transformers can be such a great franchise; I don't want to see it ruined.

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Old 05-13-2008, 11:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

What obvious plot holes are you referring too?

I think if they make the 2nd on the same level as the first, then Id be happy.
I enjoyed the hell out of TF1.

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Old 05-14-2008, 10:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

it's not the cinematography(that is actually fantastic)

it's the editing
(you don't need 30 cuts to have someone walk across the street)

ie just watch the bone crusher vs optimus scene
perfect
same camera, different editing

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Old 05-15-2008, 01:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

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Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
it's not the cinematography(that is actually fantastic)

it's the editing
(you don't need 30 cuts to have someone walk across the street)

ie just watch the bone crusher vs optimus scene
perfect
same camera, different editing
Agreed 100% with the editing.

How many scenes were in that movie that had action going on in broad daylight then cut to night time out of the blue? I mean wtf?

I would add dialog that gives all of the Transformers an actual personalities and offers opportunities to show emotion, motivation and intelligence to both the Autobots and Decepticons.

I think Iron Man, Hellboy and Batman Begins were all great examples of a smart movies that did not try and talk down to the audience because the subject material had its roots in a comic or cartoon.

Transformers failed to even try. Bay just offered up a big series of shaky camera splash pages that were no deeper than a superbowl beer commercial and no wittier than a mid 90’s sitcom trying to “talk to the young people.”

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Old 05-16-2008, 12:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

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Agreed 100% with the editing.

How many scenes were in that movie that had action going on in broad daylight then cut to night time out of the blue? I mean wtf?

I would add dialog that gives all of the Transformers an actual personalities and offers opportunities to show emotion, motivation and intelligence to both the Autobots and Decepticons.

I think Iron Man, Hellboy and Batman Begins were all great examples of a smart movies that did not try and talk down to the audience because the subject material had its roots in a comic or cartoon.

Transformers failed to even try. Bay just offered up a big series of shaky camera splash pages that were no deeper than a superbowl beer commercial and no wittier than a mid 90’s sitcom trying to “talk to the young people.”
if you found the story lacked perhaps you need to direct your concern to the ppl responsible for the story
ie the writers and producers

bay made it look powerfull and added his sensibilities

looking at the source material for ironman(the alcoholism for example) and batman, (the miller stuff), and hell boy(the hell for goodnessake), it's be retarded if the films were less than they ended up being, substance wise

looking at the material for transformers...it's a kids show plain and simple
not that it couldn't be more, but i'm not fond of ppl acting like it used to be daniel plainview or something
if anything it was there it just wasn't focused on/explored, the humans ended up with the adult reactions and what not

The movie was pretty much Jurrasic Park
i don't see the auto bots acting any dumber than the dinos, yet it was there movie..
sam neil got over his phobia of children, the santaclaus man learnt his lesson and jeff goldblum was right as usual...
it was still the dinos movie

if anything blame speilberg

bay just made it look powerfull, ppl don't really appretiate that till someone else tries and fails

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


now lets go and watch superman returns

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Old 05-16-2008, 05:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

My three points are basicly:

-The TF's simply need to be developed as characters.

-That and the Megatron/Starscream/Soundwave dynamic needs to be preserved.

-Frank Welker needs to at least do the voice of Soundwave

If Bay gets those three things right, then I'll be more forgiving towards anything else.

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Old 05-16-2008, 09:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

I agree with having less of the silly eye rolling humour.

I say less of that but don't get rid of all humour and focus more on the Transformers...make them more of the main focus other than when they just fight.

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Old 05-17-2008, 08:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

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What obvious plot holes are you referring too?

I think if they make the 2nd on the same level as the first, then Id be happy.
I enjoyed the hell out of TF1.
1. Barricade does not showup for the final fight, but is shown traveling with Barricade behind Prime.

2. The all spark heals Frenzy, yet when Bumblebee is blown in half it doesn't heal him when he hands it to Sam.

3. The all spark created life on Cybertron, yet everything it makes is evil. If everything is evil, then where did the autobots come from???

4. Scorponok retreats into the sand is never heard from again.


Speaking of the all spark, I thought the part where Sam falls and drops the cube got a little bit eye rolling silly. A mountain dew machine, xbox, and car turn into evil transformers but once the camera pans off the scene the movie pretends those new "robots" weren't created. That whole scene should've been cut, imo. Don't detract from the main robots and the point of what Sam is trying to do.

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Old 05-18-2008, 03:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

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1. Barricade does not showup for the final fight, but is shown traveling with Barricade behind Prime.

2. The all spark heals Frenzy, yet when Bumblebee is blown in half it doesn't heal him when he hands it to Sam.

3. The all spark created life on Cybertron, yet everything it makes is evil. If everything is evil, then where did the autobots come from???

4. Scorponok retreats into the sand is never heard from again.


Speaking of the all spark, I thought the part where Sam falls and drops the cube got a little bit eye rolling silly. A mountain dew machine, xbox, and car turn into evil transformers but once the camera pans off the scene the movie pretends those new "robots" weren't created. That whole scene should've been cut, imo. Don't detract from the main robots and the point of what Sam is trying to do.
1. Dunno there

2. & 3. There is the connection there. The all spark seems to react to decepticons only. Maybe there is a reason for that in the next films plot. Well I hope so at least.

4. This is not a plot hole. He got his tail blown off. Im sure he was done fighting for a bit.

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Old 05-18-2008, 04:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

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Originally Posted by Figs View Post
I agree with having less of the silly eye rolling humour.

I say less of that but don't get rid of all humour and focus more on the Transformers...make them more of the main focus other than when they just fight.
Absolutely!!! What i had a problem with is that it was TOO KIDDIE. The jokes at times made me cringe and just made me shake my head. Transformers doesnt have to be watchable for 3 years!!!

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Old 05-18-2008, 10:06 AM   #11
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

actually it does

the only ploblem would be if that was all it was
but it's not

ppl seems to see something(one or two things) aimed at a different audience and it ruins things for them, forgetting that that audience has just as legitimate claim to the material as anyone

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Old 05-19-2008, 02:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
if you found the story lacked perhaps you need to direct your concern to the ppl responsible for the story
ie the writers and producers

bay made it look powerfull and added his sensibilities

looking at the source material for ironman(the alcoholism for example) and batman, (the miller stuff), and hell boy(the hell for goodnessake), it's be retarded if the films were less than they ended up being, substance wise

looking at the material for transformers...it's a kids show plain and simple
not that it couldn't be more, but i'm not fond of ppl acting like it used to be daniel plainview or something
if anything it was there it just wasn't focused on/explored, the humans ended up with the adult reactions and what not

The movie was pretty much Jurrasic Park
i don't see the auto bots acting any dumber than the dinos, yet it was there movie..
sam neil got over his phobia of children, the santaclaus man learnt his lesson and jeff goldblum was right as usual...
it was still the dinos movie

if anything blame speilberg

bay just made it look powerfull, ppl don't really appretiate that till someone else tries and fails

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


now lets go and watch superman returns
You do realize I made three separate criticisms right?
  • Editing
  • Writing
  • Bay’s direction (Yes power was there in certain shots (that is Bay’s one trick) but there was no consistency in the quality of the film as a whole, another Bay trait.)
I am not quite sure why you are mixing them all together to debate my opinion as if it was one giant Bay slap.

You can sight examples of Millers Batman or the more mature angle on the Iron Man storylines but their are just as many examples, if not more of the material being targeted at children. This means it has a cross demographic and there is no reason that cannot be applied to the Transformers franchise.

Honestly the argument of the origins of the material being rooted in a cartoon their for it some how gets a camp pass is one I am not willing to give. I can tell you first hand that I for one enjoyed the sexual innuendo and Megan Fox’s glistening midriff but it did nothing for my 5 year old.

This movie clearly intended to market and entertain both children and adults. It fell a short of what it could have been, unlike Iron Man, Batman and yes even Hellboy all of which were PG-13 for a reason.

Quality is quality no matter what. Honestly in another persons hands Hellboy could have just as easily been sold and turned into Ghostbusters 3.

Your points have merit but I don’t happen to agree with all of them.

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Last edited by Denny67; 05-19-2008 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

It needs a hot robot sex scene

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Old 05-20-2008, 08:22 AM   #14
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

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You do realize I made three separate criticisms right?
  • Editing agreed
  • Writing agreed
  • Bay’s direction ([FONT=Times New [/B]Roman]Yes power was there in certain shots (that is Bay’s one trick) but there was no consistency in the quality of the film as a whole, another Bay trait.)
    [/FONT]
nah

I am not quite sure why you are mixing them all together to debate my opinion as if it was one giant Bay slap.
cause for some reason all those things, which are different dept. always seem to end up pointing at one person

You can sight examples of Millers Batman or the more mature angle on the Iron Man storylines but their are just as many examples, if not more of the material being targeted at children. This means it has a cross demographic and there is no reason that cannot be applied to the Transformers franchise.

i'm sure there are many animated series comics on batman that are aimed at 6year olds, and if that's all there was and all that's given batman his name thus far and the main and only reason he has any fame, then the movie would be based on those books that are for 6 year olds

batman and iron man(material) as it's most profitable is when it's mature and miller, millar esque...
TF's most profitable and least alienating form is when it was an 80's camp cartoon show.

i'm sure the WBros could have made speedracer a no bull **** real and cool movie with a more gritty and naturalistic look, but they stuck in theme to what made it resonate with ppl the most

now i know the material was obviously changed from g1 in this film but it was still fun and for the kids(narnia will never be on par with lotr and that's cause eventhough the material can kick ass with a really mature take, as far as theme and audience that's not what got it there.

I've yet to be convinced that anyone outside of serious fandom has really follows the "mature" tf comic series, that's the material being handled in a way that imo detours the main audience, not saying it can't be done that way and that i wouldn't want it done that way, but for a first movie trying to establish an audience, it's a no brainer that the material needed to be handled in a general open armed way. personally that old g1 cartoon was the equivalent to typical 80's camp cartoons

"I honestly wonder if they made a live action barbie movie, would all the (now grown woman) 'fangirls' then ***** and moan about the actors not all looking like the same doll and while the material not being handled in a mature way ala sex and the city..."

-me on movies based on toys



Honestly the argument of the origins of the material being rooted in a cartoon their for it some how gets a camp pass is one I am not willing to give. I can tell you first hand that I for one enjoyed the sexual innuendo and Megan Fox’s glistening midriff but it did nothing for my 5 year old.

cause he was there for the giant robot fights, note the lack of any robots glistening midriffs

This movie clearly intended to market and entertain both children and adults. It fell a short of what it could have been, unlike Iron Man, Batman and yes even Hellboy all of which were PG-13 for a reason.

ironman, batman, and even hellboy have their most successful source material aimed at both audiences

if 60 batman was all there was at this point in line of all the batman success and popularity, i have no doubt that the movies would be a little more colorful

even something like blade with changed for the times, still came from an adult geared comic book...
the audience yes, grew with the times but it's still the audience (adults)


Quality is quality no matter what. Honestly in another persons hands Hellboy could have just as easily been sold and turned into Ghostbusters 3.

that would have been an obvious mistake, when looking at what kinda material has given hellboy all it's popularity

next well have ghostbusters as a verhovean starship troopers...


Your points have merit but I don’t happen to agree with all of them.
right back at cha

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Last edited by Marvin; 05-20-2008 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

1) A plot with no holes.
2) Less pew pew (by humans) more smash smash (by robots).
3) Similar 2:20 running time of TF1.

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Old 05-24-2008, 12:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

1. same running time....
2. sexay womens

other than that i thought TF1 was amazing....

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Old 05-26-2008, 11:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: What TF2 needs to be better than TF1

Megan Fox in a skimpy swimsuit.

...and there can be robots in it again, too. If they want.

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