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Old 07-05-2008, 04:50 AM   #76
Nathan Petrelli
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
Naturally, it's hard to tell the difference between Batman and Multiplicity.
Multiplicity doesn't count, for obvious reasons.

I suggest you watch Keaton as Bruce Wayne, then Keaton in Jackie Brown.

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Old 07-05-2008, 05:12 AM   #77
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

The movie is one of my familys favorites...We always watch it or quote it...Its fun to watch...Is it overrated? In my family id say so...but its a good thing! lol

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Old 07-05-2008, 06:00 AM   #78
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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I think B89 and BF had a little influence on the Spiderman films.

Spiderman: Green Goblin kidnaps Mary Jane to lure Spiderman just like the Joker kidnaps Vicki Vale to lure Batman, Mary Jane kisses Peter Parker and Spiderman and finds out he's Spiderman just like in Batman Forever.

Spiderman 2: He gives up on being Spiderman also in Batman Forever Bruce Wayne gives up being Batman.
I cant remember much from Forever, but I DO know that spidey quit in the comics and that was an ark in the series "Spider-man no more".

AND the first is also from the comics, Green Meanie kidnaps Gwen Stacy [in the movie they changed her to MJ] from the Death of Gwen Stacy, BOTH writen by Stan Lee.

So Forever had NO influence on the Spider-man series.

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Old 07-05-2008, 09:26 AM   #79
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Multiplicity doesn't count, for obvious reasons.
I myself consider your argument being flawed an obvious reason.

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I suggest you watch Keaton as Bruce Wayne, then Keaton in Jackie Brown.
Two very good roles in a row. Speaks volumes about Keaton's skills as an actor.

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I cant remember much from Forever, but I DO know that spidey quit in the comics and that was an ark in the series "Spider-man no more".

AND the first is also from the comics, Green Meanie kidnaps Gwen Stacy [in the movie they changed her to MJ] from the Death of Gwen Stacy, BOTH writen by Stan Lee.

So Forever had NO influence on the Spider-man series.
Yes. Every important superhero has quit some time.

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Old 07-05-2008, 10:29 AM   #80
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Because he was trying to scare Joker by zeroing in on him and firing all around him.
You're joking, right?!? He was trying to kill him pure & simple. You don't try to scare people by putting a bull-eye on your target, 'cause only Bat see something Joker doesn't from the monitor. That is a weak excuse there. The ending where he said "I'm going to kill you!" is a sign he was going to kill him from the beginning. There is no excuse: Bat try to kill Joker with the machine guns from the Batwing. Don't deny it there.

And B89 is somewhat overrated, but still fun to watch despite Jack acting like Jack, Alfred letting Vale in the Batcave (which is not what Alfred would ever do), etc.

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Old 07-05-2008, 11:40 AM   #81
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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I myself consider your argument being flawed an obvious reason.
A role which forces him to portray different emotional states because each clone has a different personality.. It doesn't count for that obvious reason. But don't ignore that Keaton's role is still as 1 dimensional as him as Jackie Brown.

I liked him in Batman as Bruce Wayne, but he carried out the characteristics of that role to the majority of them after.

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Two very good roles in a row. Speaks volumes about Keaton's skills as an actor.

Change the name from Jackie Brown to Vicky Vale, get a blind man and make him listen to the difference between Bruce Wayne and Keaton in Jackie Brown. I bet he wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two..

Keaton was a good Bruce Wayne, but nobody can top Christian Bale as Bruce Wayne. Not only does he have the obsession in his eyes, but you start to believe that you are watching Bruce Wayne, not Christian Bale. Unlike Keaton, you are watching Michael Keaton playing Bruce Wayne..

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Old 07-05-2008, 12:07 PM   #82
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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A role which forces him to portray different emotional states because each clone has a different personality.. It doesn't count for that obvious reason.
Yeah, because it smashes the premise of your argument. An actor without flexibility could have ruined the 3 different personalities clones concept. But Keaton did it good.

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But don't ignore that Keaton's role is still as 1 dimensional as him as Jackie Brown.
No he wasn't. He was as rich as in Jackie Brown. You'd do better saying he acted similar (so we can start srguing that point) but not that he was 1-dimensional because the intensity of his Batman is acknowledged to date.

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I liked him in Batman as Bruce Wayne, but he carried out the characteristics of that role to the majority of them after.
I'm glad he could be able to keep that intensity for other roles.

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Change the name from Jackie Brown to Vicky Vale, get a blind man and make him listen to the difference between Bruce Wayne and Keaton in Jackie Brown. I bet he wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two..
Of course you know that if we don't have the blind man and do the actual experiment that's just an empty argument. With the same logic I could say that I bet a good director that watches 3 Keaton movies could tell how good he is. Sure, we can put experiments and the results of them in words all we want, who can stop our imagination?

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Keaton was a good Bruce Wayne, but nobody can top Christian Bale as Bruce Wayne.
May I ask what has Christian Bale to do in this? I thought we were talking about Michael Keaton. Or is there a insecuity feeling when talking about other actors portraying Batman?

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Not only does he have the obsession in his eyes, but you start to believe that you are watching Bruce Wayne, not Christian Bale. Unlike Keaton, you are watching Michael Keaton playing Bruce Wayne..
I can still watch a very natural Christian Bale being called Bruce Wayne. I think we'll see the total transformation in Ledger's Joker more than Bale's Bruce.

I assure you Keaton being great doesn't diminish Bale's merits.

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Old 07-05-2008, 12:37 PM   #83
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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I think we'll see the total transformation in Ledger's Joker more than Bale's Bruce.
because bruce and joker are two different persons? holy comiccontinuity, batman!

@topic
i don't know if batman 89 is overrated, but i don't like it. and that's not because of the matter of fact that i'm a "batman begins" fanboy, i never liked the old filmseries anyway, mostly bcause of the fact that they all felt too much like any random superhero movie - IN MY OPINION - and i'm not really a fan of superheromovies at all, not even a real fan of superheroes. i just love batman, and begins was - IMO - closest to what "i" expect from a batman movie. overall - it was okay, though, 'wouldn't say it is one of my favorite movies.

it's pretty funny if people say that everybody should love and respect batman 89, because without it, we wouldn't have got begins. are you serious? do you reall think that nobody would ever have got the idea of making batman movie like begins without burton? well, if that's really what you think, fine... i respect it for being an important movie to many people, and i respect it for bringing superhero-movie to a darker and much more serious status-quo, but didn't superman-the movie already do that?

besides that: my favorite bruce wayne ever is val kilmer, come and bash me.


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Old 07-05-2008, 01:05 PM   #84
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Yeah, because it smashes the premise of your argument. An actor without flexibility could have ruined the 3 different personalities clones concept. But Keaton did it good.
Then why doesn't he take this flexibility to other roles?

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No he wasn't. He was as rich as in Jackie Brown. You'd do better saying he acted similar (so we can start srguing that point) but not that he was 1-dimensional because the intensity of his Batman is acknowledged to date.
No, he was a more hyper version of Bruce Wayne in Jackie Brown.

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I'm glad he could be able to keep that intensity for other roles.
He wasn't intense as Bruce Wayne..

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Of course you know that if we don't have the blind man and do the actual experiment that's just an empty argument. With the same logic I could say that I bet a good director that watches 3 Keaton movies could tell how good he is. Sure, we can put experiments and the results of them in words all we want, who can stop our imagination?
He may be a good actor, but he was Bruce Wayne all over again in Jackie Brown..

Quote:
May I ask what has Christian Bale to do in this? I thought we were talking about Michael Keaton. Or is there a insecuity feeling when talking about other actors portraying Batman?



I can still watch a very natural Christian Bale being called Bruce Wayne. I think we'll see the total transformation in Ledger's Joker more than Bale's Bruce.

I assure you Keaton being great doesn't diminish Bale's merits.
What I originally said was directed to COMICFILMEXPERT, but you jumped in the seat instead, in which he said Christian Bale plays Bruce Wayne, but Michael Keaton IS Bruce Wayne, or something along those lines. Hardly insecurity and it only comes across that way because you have decided to answer for him.

Now you are talking about The Dark Knight. Of course all eyes are on Heath Ledger, not only because he has more than likely produced some of the most amazing acting that we have seen in 5 years, not only because its also The Joker. The most favourite, famous and loved Batman Rogue, but also because he has unfortunately died.. I was talking about Christian Bales performance in Batman Begins. But no doubt he will be just as good, or even better in The Dark Knight, mind you, which will be outshined and overshadowed by Ledgers performance.

I enjoyed Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne, I just haven't been able to see myself enjoy many of his films after the 2 Batman films due to him carrying on his Bruce Wayne mentality.

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Old 07-05-2008, 01:07 PM   #85
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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because bruce and joker are two different persons? holy comiccontinuity, batman!
Aw, you got it all wrong. I was obviously talking about the The actor-to-character thansformation (Ledger-to-Joker vs Bale-to-Batman).

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it's pretty funny if people say that everybody should love and respect batman 89, because without it, we wouldn't have got begins. are you serious? do you reall think that nobody would ever have got the idea of making batman movie like begins without burton? well, if that's really what you think, fine...
No Burton, no black armoured bat-suit.

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Old 07-05-2008, 01:12 PM   #86
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Then why doesn't he take this flexibility to other roles?
He doesn't have to.

Nevertheless he has been different enough from Mr. Mom to Night Shift and then Batman and Jackie Brown, and not ignoring My Life. Quite a good rank of variety there sir. Fopr the ones who're willing to see.

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No, he was a more hyper version of Bruce Wayne in Jackie Brown.
Oh, so he was different. Great for Keaton.

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He wasn't intense as Bruce Wayne..
Yes he was. But not all the time since that would be 1-dimensional.

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He may be a good actor, but he was Bruce Wayne all over again in Jackie Brown..
I applaud all his intense roles.

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I enjoyed Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne, I just haven't been able to see myself enjoy many of his films after the 2 Batman films due to him carrying on his Bruce Wayne mentality.
I never enjoyed films of Christopher Reeve other than the Superman movies. He still was the man of steel himself.


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Old 07-05-2008, 01:16 PM   #87
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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No Burton, no black armoured bat-suit.
ouch, you got me with that. ^^

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Old 07-05-2008, 05:14 PM   #88
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

Ugh this argument has gotten ridiculously fanboyish. Tim Burton showed everyone that Batman is dark and brooding instead of lame ass dancing, surfing, bat repellant wearing idiot in a blue satin cape with white out eyebrows.

And to be honest, George Clooney made a better Bruce Wayne than Bale. Sorry, but it's factual. The whole millionaire playboy thing? Yep. Clooney got it right.

Batman? Goes to Keaton. Not Bale and his "I'm trying out for a Swedish melodic death metal band today" voice.

Hell, I'll even give Batman to Conroy's voice. I like him too. But what is with all the 89 hate all of sudden? Is it because TDK is coming out and you all think it's going to historically erase the previous films? Calm down guys.

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Old 07-05-2008, 05:29 PM   #89
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

batman 89 hate? i only read "begins is teh untr00 and batman 89 ftw." postings in this whole thread. i can only see maybe 3 postings who are not pro-89, but also not relly anti. i don't know what you mean.

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Old 07-05-2008, 05:49 PM   #90
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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You're joking, right?!? He was trying to kill him pure & simple. You don't try to scare people by putting a bull-eye on your target, 'cause only Bat see something Joker doesn't from the monitor. That is a weak excuse there. The ending where he said "I'm going to kill you!" is a sign he was going to kill him from the beginning. There is no excuse: Bat try to kill Joker with the machine guns from the Batwing. Don't deny it there.
I'm not saying he wasn't out to kill Joker, I'm saying he was terrorizing Joker first in the Batwing by shooting Joker's men and shooting all around Joker which is why he didn't just shoot Joker right then and there in the Batwing. Or do you seriously think Batman couldn't hit Joker when Joker was standing right in front of him with his arms stretched out? Come on. I think Batman shot around Joker on purpose to try to terrorize Joker before he kills him.

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Old 07-05-2008, 11:07 PM   #91
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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I suggest you watch a different Keaton movie besides Batman. Your opinion on him being the most "psychologically driven and empathetic live action Batman" will change after you realize he acts in the same style each and every movie he is in..










Umm...no he doesn't

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Old 07-05-2008, 11:19 PM   #92
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Umm...no he doesn't

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Congratulations. 4 movies out of 55 you have proved me wrong.

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Old 07-05-2008, 11:22 PM   #93
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Congratulations. 4 movies out of 55 you have proved me wrong.
Proving you wrong was the whole point...so this 'deadpan comeback' doesn't exactly work at all.

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Old 07-05-2008, 11:26 PM   #94
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Proving you wrong was the whole point...so this 'deadpan comeback' doesn't exactly work at all.

CFE
But you couldn't prove me wrong with anything else, is that why you avoided the rest of what I wrote? I guess simple people like to settle for the most tiniest, weak and insignificant victories. As I said.. 4 out of 55 movies.

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Old 07-06-2008, 12:16 AM   #95
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

Are we really arguing about this? I mean Christ...Really.

Also, he was in Herbie with Lindsay Lohan. If that helps.

Arguing on the net is so cool.

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Old 07-06-2008, 01:01 AM   #96
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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you have proved me wrong.
Exactly.

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Old 07-06-2008, 05:16 AM   #97
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Exactly.
As I said COMICFILMEXPERTJUNIOR. 4 out of 55 films.

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Old 07-06-2008, 08:43 AM   #98
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

You better watch the rest.

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Old 07-06-2008, 08:43 AM   #99
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

I forgot Clean and Sober. Another great work by Keaton.


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Old 07-06-2008, 09:23 AM   #100
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

I actually think '89 is underrated. That film has some epic shots - the shot of bats the first time we see him, coming down with his cape spread behind the two thugs; Joker taking his hat off and shooting Grisham; Batmobile racing along an empty road, blowing leafs, the score epic and operatic. I could go on, but with the visuals and the score, the way Keaton was very intense as Batman and Bruce Wayne, the way Jack played Joker, the way it blew EVERYbody away because they were all expecting camp and corny . . . it's a spectacular film.

There is one Batman film that is overrated, but it isn't Batman '89.

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