What Happened to ... Wayne Enterprises, the Monorail

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Dude watch BB again, the monorail in the center of Gotham to Wayne Tower is alot longer than a football field.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe

Well when they leave out an important aspect from the first film, and just act like "it never was" in the second film, it can kinda bother people a little.

The monorail was featured in BB because it was an intregal part of the plot to destroy Gotham....that was it's reason for being there. There was no reason for it to be showcased in TDK.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

The monorail was featured in BB because it was an intregal part of the plot to destroy Gotham....that was it's reason for being there. There was no reason for it to be showcased in TDK.

I obviously understand that, BUT it seems like cutting corners a little too much for me, to not ATLEAST show something about it in TDK, same with Wayne Tower used in BB, they're too important to be left out without a nod or anything.

[Kahoot]

Originally Posted by BubbaGump

First screencap from Begins, second from TDK. Sorry for the quality, I ripped them from youtube.

They're just using the building next door this time.

Wouldn't we see the bigger building in the back round? Or we'd be closer to it if you wanna say it's behind the camera.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

It looks as though its the same building, I just feel there was no reason to NOT use the same Wayne Tower from BB, its just kind of a bad move, that building is iconic.

[Kahoot]

Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe

It looks as though its the same building, I just feel there was no reason to NOT use the same Wayne Tower from BB, its just kind of a bad move, that building is iconic.

I totally agree. While it's totally 100% fine to say, "He's Wayne, he's got millions of towers" that doesn't really sit with me. It's a movie that should've used the same tower as the movie it's following. It just looks like they never thought of a Batman Begins 2 when they made it.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

The building is in the film, right there you can see it, they just dont zoom in on it, how can you allow for it to be spotted but not directly show it, all they had to do was but the Wayne symbol on it with some CGI and it would've been fine.

[Carnotaur3]

Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe

Watch BB again, and when Bruce is a kid on the monorail with his parents on the way to the opera and they show a long shot from above the monorails view to the center of Wayne Tower, it is quite bit longer than a football field length.

I said the section that was destroyed on the monorail was the length of a football field, maybe more I don't know, but the point is I was saying it was just a small section compared to the full system.

[Dark Guardian]

Not that I didn't like the new...version of it, but Wayne Tower was such an integral part of Begins, I think TDK feels too much apart from its precursor film. There aren't all that many things linking it to Begins, I sort of miss Wayne Tower, as that would have been a nice one of those pieces of linkage. Especially considering Bruce fought so damn hard to save it in Begins, and it looks like he failed, cuz it ain't around a year later!

[Bathead]

It's only a model...

[SalaciousVC]

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

it should've been atleast mentioned!

[Bathead]

Two things : neither the monorail or the Tower were "Destroyed" , It was only the last few hundred feet of the rail and a portion of the Tower's basement parking lot. Both were repairable.
Secondly, I don't really get this fixation on something that has no relevance to the TDK movie.

[Bat-Mite]

The monorail is present in the film and very noticeable when we first see the Joker. When the camera zooms in on his back, it's there in the background, and I even remember people talking about it when the prologue was first released.

The Wayne Tower building is obviously present in the film, since it's shown in the background while Bats and Joker are dueling in the street. Maybe Wayne still owns it and maybe he moved his company to another building while it's being repaired. Or maybe the particular meetings that take place in TDK just happen in one of the other buildings that he owns for whatever reason. Maybe he sold Wayne Tower after it was damaged. There are a lot of reasons I can think of as to why things happened the way they did with the buildings, none of which merit a lot of focus. Tedious babbling about why a meeting is taking place in a certain building would have done this movie no favors with its already lengthy running time, and certainly wouldn't have helped to advance the story.

Originally Posted by Dark Guardian

Not that I didn't like the new...version of it, but Wayne Tower was such an integral part of Begins, I think TDK feels too much apart from its precursor film. There aren't all that many things linking it to Begins,

Bruce Wayne, Lucius Fox, Gordon, Alfred, Rachel Dawes, and Scarecrow all appear in the previous movie and 5 out of 6 of them are all played by the same actors. Harvey Dent appears to replace the D.A. that was killed in the first film. The mob are desperate because the fall of Carmine Falcone and Batman's continued crusade against them has weakened them. Wayne Manor's destruction is mentioned at the beginning of the film. The same batmobile is used, as is the same batsuit for the beginning of the film. Batman still has the same cape from the first movie that allows him to glide.

The Joker's arrival is foreshadowed by the first movie's ending. The same location is used for the police station rooftop, with the same bat signal we see in the first movie. When Rachel dies, the same music is played that is played during the Wayne's funeral in Batman Begins, and Alfred even comforts Bruce in a very similar way that he did when Bruce lost his parents. The batmobile crushing the police cars in the first film is mentioned by Reese, and he got the blueprints from the now defunct Archives area of W.E. where Lucius worked in BB. I could go on and on, but I think I've sufficiently proven that there's plenty linking the two films.

I sort of miss Wayne Tower, as that would have been a nice one of those pieces of linkage. Especially considering Bruce fought so damn hard to save it in Begins,

Batman wasn't trying to save Wayne Tower because of its sentimental value to himself. He was trying to save it because it was the hub of the water supply in the city (as the annoying old man repeatedly points out to us during the final battle). If he didn't save Wayne Tower, Ra's al Ghul would succeed in poisoning all of Gotham, therefore effectively destroying the city.

and it looks like he failed, cuz it ain't around a year later!

Funny, because I remember seeing the building not only in the film, but in the trailers as well. Is it still Wayne's? Who knows. It doesn't really matter to me, because I don't mind that they didn't focus half the movie around a building that had nothing to do with the movie's story.

[deathfromabove]

Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe

Watch BB again, and when Bruce is a kid on the monorail with his parents on the way to the opera and they show a long shot from above the monorails view to the center of Wayne Tower, it is quite bit longer than a football field length.

The monorail itself went all the way through and around Gotham, if it was in TDK we would've seen it.

its in TDK. we did see it. several times. and as for the old wayne tower building being iconic, maybe thats why they used a different building this time. the real building (the board of trade) is a pretty obvious chicago landmark.

having said that the b.o.t. building is also in the movie.

and is it just me or does look like some of the monorail wreckage when alfred visits bruce at the docks? maybe?

i dont really see the problem.

nice rocketeer avy by the way. i love that movie and the comic. rip dave stevens

[Bathead]

"blank"

[Harrygucha]

People keep thinking the monorail can be seen when Joker has his back turned to us right before the bank scene. That's not the monorail; that's an actual train line in Chicago. The monorail is in many exterior shots including The wayne building where Lau is and many other exterior shots. So, it was in TDK . Don't see why this thread exists.

[aturner]

Originally Posted by SalaciousVC

The monorail was in TDK quite a few times and the pic above shows it. Look at what seems to be the white church spire on the left hand side of the image - the monorail runs behind that building. Pretty clear that it's in there.

[Mr. Earle]

Originally Posted by wootbaby

The entire point of the monorail was that it is the living embodiment of the legacy of Thomas Wayne. Public transportation is at heart the most egalitarian project a city can construct and represented Wayne's hope for the common people of Gotham city. It also symbolized his brand of activism in trying to "save" the city.

Seeing as how the point of the first movie was Bruce trying to make sense of that legacy and ultimately deciding to go a different, more disturbing (but perhaps more effective at the end) path... to the point of PHYSICALLY destroying the embodiment of his father's legacy... the monorail has jack to do with the 2nd movie so it isn't featured in TDK

Funilly enough the monorail does live on in SPIRIT in the 2nd movie. If it represents a clean, legitimate, through-the-laws HOPE for the people of Gotham, the "monorail" in the 2nd movie is Harvey Dent.

And it basically goes BOOM in the 2nd movie as well...

I have had enough of people rationalising the look of gotham and its parts with plot.
Harvey Dent is the monorail?
And rachel is what? The underground railway? Goddamnit people!

Originally Posted by Cmill216

The monorail wasn't in this film because the monorail's not important.

Nothing is important. Lets not include anything in this movie but plot.

[Mr. Earle]

Originally Posted by aturner

The monorail was in TDK quite a few times and the pic above shows it. Look at what seems to be the white church spire on the left hand side of the image - the monorail runs behind that building. Pretty clear that it's in there.

yeah, pretty prominent in that shot. Let me get my telescope!

Ok, so they didnt get rid of it. But the point that many people are making is that the fact that the monorail wasnt seen in TDK (only visible to people who watched the movie 10 times and analysed every pixel) and the fact that the iconic W tower barely got some offchance screentime, coupled with the change in gotham's atmosphere and depiction, cut a lot of connecting strings between the two films for many people, myself included. BB was filled with shots of the monorail and W tower, and suddenly, we move to a city without them. What were really gotham's undistinguishable trademarks that would ring the viewer a bell? Those two. And the tower was barely there and the monorail was absent. It would have been soooo easy to include a shot of the tower at least. The fact that it played the role of background to the street fight doesnt mean that we saw much of it, nor that it contributed to TDK's gotham.

Sure, the character's from BB were there, but the city was vastly different. Not only did we lose the manor because of plot, but we lost the city's major trademarks. You guys can argue all you want about the monorail being there, but ask any normal moviegoer if he saw any train and he will answer no. Because in a shot full of buidings, three little lines in the far distance are barely visible. (also, when the joker is waiting to picked up, that train isnt gotham's monorail, but chicago's EL)

And finally, i will say what i always say about this subject. Nolan wanted the monorail out. He barely included it for consistency but i bet that he would have prefered it if he somehow could make a movie about batman in a real city, where his crime drama could be more realistic and affecting to the audience. And that way, we lost much of the iconic status of BB's gotham. Welcome to Blandtham where its all about plot. Iconic shots of the city or batman standing like a gargoyle arent important to the plot, so who cares?

[deathfromabove]

waah waah waah

jesus man let it go already.

[Kahoot]

I love watching this fight. There are those people that are rightly thinking along the lines of, this isn't a Batman Begins sequel just a Batman movie with the same actors/director. It's almost as if it's not the same universe between the two movies coz we don't really see any connecting landmarks.

Then there are the others that are thinking along the lines of, who cares, TDK is the ROXOR! And that’s pretty much there only answer.

[deathfromabove]

Originally Posted by Kahoot

I love watching this fight. There are those people that are rightly thinking along the lines of, this isn't a Batman Begins sequel just a Batman movie with the same actors/director. It's almost as if it's not the same universe between the two movies coz we don't really see any connecting landmarks.

Then there are the others that are thinking along the lines of, who cares, TDK is the ROXOR! And that’s pretty much there only answer.

rightly thinking its not a sequel? ok man please pass that over here. i want some of whatever it is you are taking.

the final showdown in both movies takes place on the same freaking street for goodness sakes! just because it shows different parts of the city and has different color palate its not in the same universe??

im sorry but dont need landmarks and obvious connections shoved down my throat.

oh my god! empire strikes back doesnt take place in the death star? an ice planet? how can they call that a sequel!!!???

[Brem]

Probably a stupid thought, and it might have even been mentioned but the way I figure it it's logical they might move locations.

When I think about why they're in a different tower, I take into consideration that in Batman Begins, it was stated the tower was made into the unofficial center of Gotham where everything connects up.

After the events in Batman Begins, I was thinking it's entirely possible they didn't want to risk anything like that happening again so they switched locations, probably removed anything connected to water and so forth and maybe even removed the monorail from that location. From the looks of things it was going straight into the tower and having move from one building to another, they may have decided to remove parts.

To me, when they mention the monorail for the first time (Wayne's Father says it was made to unite the city, and at the center, Wayne Tower.), it was getting ready for the confrontation later with Ra's, since that's what he uses to get to Wayne Tower in the first place.

Since the Joker has no interest in either, then it'd be pointless to make it a huge part of the plus in The Dark Knight except to push in our faces a reminder that it's there. Instead from the pictures we've all probably seen by now, it's briefly shown to keep both films connected without saying "Forgot the Monorail?! HERE IT IS!". It was subtle, and I personally like that.

[deathfromabove]

Originally Posted by Brem

then it'd be pointless to make it a huge part of the plus in The Dark Knight except to push in our faces a reminder that it's there. Instead from the pictures we've all probably seen by now, it's briefly shown to keep both films connected without saying "Forgot the Monorail?! HERE IT IS!". It was subtle, and I personally like that.

"much more subtle."

why must everything be rammed down our throats?