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Old 01-21-2009, 12:12 PM   #101
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Default Re: Tim Boyle's The Phantom

That's cool. I do get why so many people have soft spots for the show, but I saw it for the first time as a, I believe, fifteen year old, and I had already read the comic around six years then, so I was never really very fond of it. I would probably have loved it as an eight year old, though.

When I (hopefully) get my own kids, I think DOTE is a pretty decent way to get them interested in the character, as is the Zane film.

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Old 01-21-2009, 06:11 PM   #102
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Walker, do you think parkour has any business doing in a Phantom movie?

I know it's trendy, but I think parkour (to a certain extent) would be great for the next film.

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Old 01-22-2009, 02:24 AM   #103
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That's a great idea. It would be very cool to see such a chase through the deep jungles of Bengalla, with either the Phantom chasing someone James Bond-style (only making a much more frightening figure) or him being chased by several bad guys.

That's the kind of action I'd love to get from a Phantom movie, more Casino Royale than Die Another Day.

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Old 01-22-2009, 04:54 AM   #104
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Phantom should have TDK, Batman Begins, Casino Royale, Die Another Day...etc, etc, etc.

And people accuse Hollywood of self-imitation.
I guess Hollywood is like that because it seems that's what people want and that's what sells.

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Old 01-22-2009, 05:19 AM   #105
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well, i mean, certain movies should be influenced by the quality of other films, not just the visuals. Also, what worked for a certain film, may not work for another.


I disagree that any post-Dark Knight comic book movie should be dark. I disagree that every movie should be grounded in 'realism' (and the Nolan Batman series are still fantasy movies, mind you). Rather, other directors shoudl pay attention to the high standards Nolan brought to mainstream Hollywood. If other filmmakers can follow suit without cutting and pasting his style, then that's a great thing. I think a guy like McG is getting it, judging from his work on Terminator Salvation.

I also think Jon favareau gets it, along with (hopefully) Zach Synder.

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Old 01-22-2009, 05:34 AM   #106
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The Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies were all influenced by old serials, and the latter was also clearly influenced by James Bond. Halloween was influenced by The Texas Chain Saw Massacre. The Metal Gear Solid games were influenced by Escape from New York. Every superhero movie that came after it, both good and bad, was influenced by Superman The Movie (still the best comic book movie by far, IMHO). Batman Begins obviously got a lot of inspiration from Blade Runner in terms of look. The list goes on forever.

I want a Phantom movie to have its own identity, and not rip off anyone, but there's a difference between being influenced by other things and copying it.

The fact is, TDK have raised the bar of what a comic book movie should be in terms of quality, and if the filmmakers aspire to make a product that is as sophisticated, intelligent and exciting as that film, I wouldn't dream of complaining personally.

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Old 01-22-2009, 05:57 AM   #107
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well, i mean, certain movies should be influenced by the quality of other films...
Well, "influenced by the quality" is quite different than doing the same. Parkour is great and was long over due in films. But now it has been done many times already. Why keep repeating it? Why not do something new and fresh? Besides in my opinion the Phantom wouldn't benefit from Parkour as much as a hero like Daredevil for example.


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... the high standards Nolan brought to mainstream Hollywood.
This statement really bothers me and it has been going on for a while. Not all over the place but at least in geekdom. Actually in Batman related boards only. Nobody else seems to share such heightened and exaggerated opinion about Nolan.
It is as if high standards didn't exist in Hollywood or in superhero films before Nolan. Please.
Or is it because he filmed a couple of scenes in IMAX? Regardless, there were films that stuck close to the source material before Nolan. Even closer actually. There were well made films before Nolan. There were well acted films before Nolan. There were films that were more ground breaking before Nolan. There were films that were more technically advancing before Nolan.
Citizen Kane? Ring any bells? That was 1941 and it is still ground breaking.
You don't need to go any farther than Nolan's favorite film itself, which clearly has more than influenced the look, cinematography and standards of his Batman films and he has admitted so. I'm of course talking about Blade Runner. TDK can make a trillion dollars but Blade Runner it ain't and only time will tell if it will stand the test of time like Blade Runner or Citizen Kane or if it will be forgotten as soon as the next hot thing pops up. Just look at Titanic. It’s the highest grossing film of all time but it will never hold the status of Blade Runner, Citizen Kane and Gone with the Wind or any of the other greats.
A movie like Blade Runner made in 1982 still gives TDK a run for it's money in the technical side and beats it in execution, direction and even standards.
So let's please stop acting as if there were not high standards before Nolan.


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Old 01-22-2009, 06:16 AM   #108
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I have pretty much addressed the other part of your post on my reply to Octoberist.
Doing more of the same is not being inspired. It's copying.

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The fact is, TDK have raised the bar of what a comic book movie should be in terms of quality...
Sorry but there's no fact here, just opinion. All TDK did was have a great story. That's why it's so good. It is a great film. Iron Man also had a great story and was great. But to say either raised the bar quality wise is just not true. Before TDK films were being shot the same way TDK was and they are still now. Just because a couple of scenes were shot in IMAX doesn't mean raising the bar. Actually, I would say that Nolan senseless stubbornness against CGI actually held back many scenes from greatness. Any intelligent director should know CGI can be put for good use. TDK was lackluster in terms of visuals in many ways and the best we got was the truck flipping and it was awesome just because....it was done for real? Err, it's a movie no matter what so.


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Old 01-22-2009, 11:58 AM   #109
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Default Re: Tim Boyle's The Phantom

Let's also keep in mind that Watchmen will very likely be another film that will make a strong mark like TDK if not more, and this film, while it will have a powerful story and message, visually it looks more "fantastical" than TDK. So, this could also be a way Tha Phantom could go. That kind of "300" look.

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Old 01-22-2009, 02:52 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Ultradude View Post
I have pretty much addressed the other part of your post on my reply to Octoberist.
Doing more of the same is not being inspired. It's copying.



Sorry but there's no fact here, just opinion. All TDK did was have a great story. That's why it's so good. It is a great film. Iron Man also had a great story and was great. But to say either raised the bar quality wise is just not true. Before TDK films were being shot the same way TDK was and they are still now. Just because a couple of scenes were shot in IMAX doesn't mean raising the bar. Actually, I would say that Nolan senseless stubbornness against CGI actually held back many scenes from greatness. Any intelligent director should know CGI can be put for good use. TDK was lackluster in terms of visuals in many ways and the best we got was the truck flipping and it was awesome just because....it was done for real? Err, it's a movie no matter what so.
I disagree that Dark Knight didn't raise the bar. I kinda get the impression while you did like the Dark Knight, but you just saw it as another good comic book adaption (X2, Spider-Man 2) Well, if it didn't then it still left a mark. Same with Iron Man and hopefully Watchmen.

Let me explain: A movie that's like Fantastic Four or Daredevil can't make it though alive after Iron Man and Dark Knight era. I think that's what I'm trying to get at.

With a Fantastic Four type movie - if you want a light optimistic movie - look no further than Iron Man, which has it and is done well. May I add The Incredibles. Anyway, a movie like Dark Knight is telling other film makers out there to "Just do your friggin' best to make a good movie" and not just cash in the paycheck.

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Old 01-22-2009, 02:57 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Ultradude View Post
Well, "influenced by the quality" is quite different than doing the same. Parkour is great and was long over due in films. But now it has been done many times already. Why keep repeating it? Why not do something new and fresh? Besides in my opinion the Phantom wouldn't benefit from Parkour as much as a hero like Daredevil for example.




This statement really bothers me and it has been going on for a while. Not all over the place but at least in geekdom. Actually in Batman related boards only. Nobody else seems to share such heightened and exaggerated opinion about Nolan.
It is as if high standards didn't exist in Hollywood or in superhero films before Nolan. Please.
Or is it because he filmed a couple of scenes in IMAX? Regardless, there were films that stuck close to the source material before Nolan. Even closer actually. There were well made films before Nolan. There were well acted films before Nolan. There were films that were more ground breaking before Nolan. There were films that were more technically advancing before Nolan.
Citizen Kane? Ring any bells? That was 1941 and it is still ground breaking.
You don't need to go any farther than Nolan's favorite film itself, which clearly has more than influenced the look, cinematography and standards of his Batman films and he has admitted so. I'm of course talking about Blade Runner. TDK can make a trillion dollars but Blade Runner it ain't and only time will tell if it will stand the test of time like Blade Runner or Citizen Kane or if it will be forgotten as soon as the next hot thing pops up. Just look at Titanic. It’s the highest grossing film of all time but it will never hold the status of Blade Runner, Citizen Kane and Gone with the Wind or any of the other greats.
A movie like Blade Runner made in 1982 still gives TDK a run for it's money in the technical side and beats it in execution, direction and even standards.
So let's please stop acting as if there were not high standards before Nolan.
I think you're missing my point. I'm not a rabid Batman fan so don't judge

I think for a while, MAINSTREAM Hollywood hasn't pulled out the stops, and instead relying on small indie flicks to their 'Oscar bait' work. I don't have a problem with that.

I think The Dark Knight is a reminder to the heyday of Raiders of the Lost, Ark, ET, or just recently Lord of the Rings. Iron Man too, though it doesn't have the same publicity as Dark Knight. And let's be real: The Dark KNight won't be a Titanic where it's "forgotten". It's a different demographic for that one, whereas Batman already has a strong but scary fanbase.

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Old 01-22-2009, 03:00 PM   #112
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PART 3:

So my point being, I want Tim Boyle to his best for The Phantom. I agree with Guard that I don't want him to put Phantom into a rubber suit or whatever, just do the best work that he can do. I think movies like Dark Knight (dark thriller) and Iron Man (action/adventure) have leveled the playing field, so it'll be challenge.

I like the fact that Tim is listening to the fans. You can't please everyone, but as long as you follow Neil Gaiman's Law of Comic Book Movies (dont' alienate the fanbase), he should do fine.

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Old 01-22-2009, 03:28 PM   #113
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Sorry but there's no fact here, just opinion. All TDK did was have a great story. That's why it's so good. It is a great film. Iron Man also had a great story and was great. But to say either raised the bar quality wise is just not true. Before TDK films were being shot the same way TDK was and they are still now. Just because a couple of scenes were shot in IMAX doesn't mean raising the bar. Actually, I would say that Nolan senseless stubbornness against CGI actually held back many scenes from greatness. Any intelligent director should know CGI can be put for good use. TDK was lackluster in terms of visuals in many ways and the best we got was the truck flipping and it was awesome just because....it was done for real? Err, it's a movie no matter what so.
I think it's safe to say the film did raise expectations general audiences will have for this genre in many ways. It's received eight Oscar nominations, was hailed by critics everywhere, did massively well, fans of the character adored it, and it really spoke to a generation of filmgoers like nothing else we have seen lately. When did that happen to a comic book adaptation before? Possibly with Superman, I'm not old enough to remember that far back, but TDK WAS something special for a lot of people.

I don't think CG can capture the thrill of old fashioned stunt work in a film that is supposed to be grounded in reality. The truck flipping in TDK was a lot more impressive than the CG one in Terminator 3, as an example. Realistic stuntwork would make the Phantom feel more grounded, like he (usually) is in the comic.
The CG enhanced stunts in Quantum of Solace too: well made, but some of them took me out of the movie simply because they didn't look quite "real".

I liked Iron Man, it's an entertaining film that was also very funny in places, but find it tremendously overrated by many. Now there's a film that didn't do anything new at all; it followed the Rules of Comic Book Filmmaking Handbook in every way, with exactly the same formula, build and way of storytelling we have seen many, many times now. Still, it got away with it, it made a huge profit and people all over the world loved it.

Quote:
Let's also keep in mind that Watchmen will very likely be another film that will make a strong mark like TDK if not more, and this film, while it will have a powerful story and message, visually it looks more "fantastical" than TDK. So, this could also be a way Tha Phantom could go. That kind of "300" look.
Well, maybe, but I'd still probably prefer something a bit more down to earth in terms of look. But who knows what they'll come up with.


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Old 01-22-2009, 03:38 PM   #114
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Well to be fair, I thought Iron Man took the superhero formula and did it the right way, or the way a director should do it (ala Spider-Man 2). Also Favreau enlisted the right cast, the right special effects companies (Stan Winston, ILM), and the right writers (Children of Men).

Also, Dark Knight has a lot of CGI, but it was blended in so well that you didn't noticed: Gotham's skyline was CGI enhanced by Double Negative and Framestone, for example. I think that's the way to go: Use CGI as a tool when it's impossible to do it in real life. Otherwise, try to be creative about it and not just do in post (look at Spike Jonze's Where the Wild Things Are). CGI is not evil, but misusing it is.

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Old 01-26-2009, 11:52 AM   #115
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Slightly offtopic; I just recieved and read The Phantom Annual #2(Moonstone) guest-starring Mandrake. Very fun read!

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Old 01-28-2009, 08:51 AM   #116
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Also, Dark Knight has a lot of CGI, but it was blended in so well that you didn't noticed: Gotham's skyline was CGI enhanced by Double Negative and Framestone, for example. I think that's the way to go: Use CGI as a tool when it's impossible to do it in real life. Otherwise, try to be creative about it and not just do in post (look at Spike Jonze's Where the Wild Things Are). CGI is not evil, but misusing it is.
Completely agreed.
I never knew the things you point out were CG in TDK, so it shows how well it is done.

Quote:
Slightly offtopic; I just recieved and read The Phantom Annual #2(Moonstone) guest-starring Mandrake. Very fun read!
I'll be getting it when the series relaunch. The fanboy in me would love to see a Phantom/Mandrake movie one day, but that's not gonna happen since the rights are with different companies. Last thing I heard of the Mandrake movie was that Jonathan Rhys Meyers is starring. I hope the film will happen, as a new Mandrake movie is long overdue.

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Old 01-28-2009, 01:58 PM   #117
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The Mandrake movie is in Development Hell. But sometimes, you can get lucky. For example, Johnny Depp is set to star in Hunter S. Thompson's Rum Diary (i would be the non-sequel to Fear and Loathing) and that movie has been in limbo for a while.

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Old 01-28-2009, 02:08 PM   #118
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IMDb claimed the new director for the Mandrake film is the woman who did The Peacemaker (name escapes me), but I'm not sure if that is correct. It was announced in 2003, I believe, then Meyers got onboard in 2007, and that's the last we heard about it. So yeah, it sounds likely that it is in development hell...

Depp would have been a good Mandrake, BTW, but I like the choice of Meyers. If he beefed up, he could maybe even play the young Phantom.

I hope we'll see some casting announcements for Legacy soon. I assume Worthington is going to be too busy with the Terminator franchise and the many other major movies he has on his schedule, so I am curious to see who they pick for the role of the ghost.

Someone suggested Hayden Christensen for the role of the son, which could work if he got some muscles (Zane wasn't exactly the most obvious choice for the part either back in the day, but I think he did as good a job with it as Christopher Reeve did with Superman).

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Old 01-28-2009, 05:43 PM   #119
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I think Depp can play anyone at any age level because he's so young looking. My God, Daniel Craig, Clive Owen, and Hugh Jackman are younger than Depp; who knew, right?

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Old 01-29-2009, 06:04 AM   #120
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Speaking of Clive Owen, I become more and more convinced he is the best choice to play the father in this film.

Tim has updated his blog again:

Quote:
Well, like I've told you - I'm the worst blogger in the world when it comes to sharing my life, but I thought I should touch base with you and try keep you all up to date.

First of all, I hope everybody had a wonderful holiday season. I spent New Years in Las Vegas and no offense to the 'Sin City' - but there's nothing in the world like an Australian Sydney Harbor New Years Eve.
Googlewhack it - download some vision, you'll see what I mean.
That's not to say I didn't have a good time. It just wasn't Sydney.

I'm well and truly kickin ass on the screenplay side of things. I've been back in OZ doing production meetings and the like and feel the film is getting better and better.

I've had the benefit of hearing what the 'Phans' have wanted and I've been able to re-look and re-evaluate my story. I'm sure you'll all be happy with where it is going.

I've been enjoying the summer heat down here but I'm also looking forward to getting back to my life on the West Coast - Calli style.

I'm currently on page 40 of this new draft - but hope to have something finished within the next week.

There are also a couple of other projects which I am pushing through Hollywood at the moment, so I'll keep you all posted on any news on that side too.

I hope you're all well,
Catch up soon.

Also, any Phantom questions can be directed to this site. I will do my best to answer them.

Cheers,

Tim
Again, sweet music to my ears. I wonder what changes he made, and, more importantly, when we are going to learn a bit more about the story!

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Old 01-30-2009, 04:53 PM   #121
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not too sure; I hope it's changes that will only improve the script, you know?

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Old 01-31-2009, 08:43 PM   #122
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I like the Phantom, but as far as old comics adaptations go I wish they would do another Popeye movie where they would include the more supernatural elements like the jeep or the sea hag. Not a big fan of Altman's versions. Also Mandrake the magician and darker better Dick Tracy and the Shadow movies.

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Old 02-02-2009, 04:52 AM   #123
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i love Dick Tracy with Warren Beatty.

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Old 02-02-2009, 11:06 AM   #124
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The Phantom did a cameo in a Popeye movie once, "The Man Who Hated Laughter", together with other King Features characters.

Speaking of team-ups...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bW1STvDLe4

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Old 02-04-2009, 08:42 PM   #125
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The Phantom did a cameo in a Popeye movie once, "The Man Who Hated Laughter", together with other King Features characters.

Speaking of team-ups...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bW1STvDLe4
Cool, I didn't know that.

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