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View Poll Results: Where does most TDK's negative feedback come from?
People who hate Batman. 8 4.55%
People who hate Heath Ledger. 5 2.84%
Purists. 10 5.68%
Burton fans. 20 11.36%
Kids. 4 2.27%
Eyecandy seekers. 1 0.57%
unsophisticatists. 2 1.14%
Hollywood elitists. 6 3.41%
People who think realism is boring. 13 7.39%
People who think itís conservative. (Controversial) 4 2.27%
People who think all superhero movies should follow the same format. 19 10.80%
It makes people feel special. 40 22.73%
Other. 44 25.00%
Voters: 176. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-19-2009, 08:14 AM   #51
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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For me that's the number one complaint a lot of people have with the film.
I must admit that It kind of stuck out to me as well. When I saw BB for the first time it did a little bit but with TDK I remember thnking to myself..."the voice is a bit much Bale.."

However, now that I've seen it multiple times I kind of get it more. The voice is not just Bruce Wayne talking in a whispery voice but rather a complete disguise as well as the whole fear thing. It seems a little exagerated but I can see how it makes sense. I do respect them for not just doing the Keaton whisper and talking in his regular voice like BTAS would not make sense and be even sillier.

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Old 03-19-2009, 08:43 AM   #52
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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I do respect them for not just doing the Keaton whisper and talking in his regular voice like BTAS would not make sense and be even sillier.
1) Keaton damn near started the whole bat-voice schtick. I hate how so many people don't respect that. Let's just remember Bale's voice is the most critiqued and poked fun at, than ANY of the previous actors.

2) Regarding BTAS, do you find the interpretation of Bruce only being "himself" when under the suit, a silly concept? If the act of disguising his voice is reversed (for Bruce, instead of Bats), and his natural voice is already deep and monotone, I do not see the problem.

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Old 03-19-2009, 12:22 PM   #53
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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Here's my problem with this, who honestly expects a film to still be suspenseful when they've seen it already? Am I missing somethng here? TDK stopped being 'suspenseful' after the credits rolled on my first viewing. There can't really be suspense if you know what's going to happen.
No, but you can still get caught up in it emotionally despite knowing what's going to happen.

The bat-voice is interesting. It makes him seem not human, but the police he works with still treat him like a regular guy, more or less.

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Old 03-19-2009, 01:58 PM   #54
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

Of course, and I still do get emotionally involved with TDK, but the term used was suspense, which is something else entirely, to me at least.

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Old 03-19-2009, 02:25 PM   #55
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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It got too trendy too quick. This thread is an example of that. It got an extreme amount of hype, and it lived up to it for the most part. Ledger's death added A LOT to the film's popularity and people's view of the Joker character. Everybody loved this film July 18th, but now everyone's going against it for, I don't know, to be unique and cool I guess.

Apparently Nolan's a "sloppy" director and made bad editing choices all of a sudden. I think TDK is a Batman fan's wet dream. I think it's a great film for a non-batfan. I think it's a great movie on it's own.

Soon "hating" TDK will get old and in a year or 2 from now it'll be "cool" again. I think Nolan was ****ed no matter what he did. Whether he made a terrible film or an amazing film he's ****ed. Just like Snyder and Watchmen.

TDK proves you can't please the fans. Ever. With anything. The fans are like preteen girls constantly menstruating. One day they'll like it and *Boom* the next week they don't. **** you guys. I love it.

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Old 03-19-2009, 05:21 PM   #56
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

The criticism that I leveled at it comes from the fact that I didn't think it was perfect.

I don't care about it's popularity, Ledger's Oscar or any of that ****e. I just thought it was good film with some flaws.

Why is that hard for some people to understand?

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Old 03-20-2009, 03:10 AM   #57
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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1) Keaton damn near started the whole bat-voice schtick. I hate how so many people don't respect that. Let's just remember Bale's voice is the most critiqued and poked fun at, than ANY of the previous actors.

2) Regarding BTAS, do you find the interpretation of Bruce only being "himself" when under the suit, a silly concept? If the act of disguising his voice is reversed (for Bruce, instead of Bats), and his natural voice is already deep and monotone, I do not see the problem.
I loved the Keaton voice but when Kilmer did it, I hated it. You're right about him not getting enough credit for it.

As far as the animated series, I think the voice is fine but what I was trying to say is that in a live action movie it would be silly. Like if Bruce said to Rachel in the BB "Falcone sent them to kill you" using his Bruce Wayne voice it would've been like ummm yeah, how is she not supposed to know that's Bruce.

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Old 03-20-2009, 02:39 PM   #58
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

Have you recently watched BTAS? The voices are quite distinct. Just as distinct as Bale, only the Batman voice sounds a whole hell of a lot better.

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Old 03-20-2009, 03:14 PM   #59
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

thats true. BTAS the 2 voices are distinct enough.

And for someone to say they 'hate' dark knight is ridicolous. you can dislike some parts or whatever because thats your opinion but to 'hate' it cus thats what the cool kids are doin nowdays is such bullcrap

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Old 03-20-2009, 03:43 PM   #60
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

Yeah, like I said before if someone has a legitimate beef with it, that's ok, even if I dont really agree with their assessment, but anyone who calls it a bad movie and hates it is either insane or just doing it for the hell of it.

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Old 03-20-2009, 03:45 PM   #61
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

i disliked the editing and the pacing. also the moments like Joker leaving the pent house. And the casting of Tiny lester took me out of the moment.

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Old 03-20-2009, 03:58 PM   #62
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

What was wrong with the editing and pacing though? It moved very fluidly. My only real complaint when I think about it is the fight scenes, yet again. An improvement over BB because I could actually see what was happening but they really felt staged. Especially the combat in the HK sequence. Very plodding hand to hand. IDK if it's Nolan's fault or the choreographer's/actor's but it's just not up to snuff after stuff like Bourne, Bond and Taken.

And what bugged you about Joker leaving the penthouse?

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Old 03-20-2009, 04:02 PM   #63
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

I felt it didn't feel fluid at all. It felt abrupt and choppy. I said this when it first came out "the movie felt like it was running a marathon" While i understand that was the intended feel, I think if it gave me time for some of the things to build up it would have been better.

Also Joker leaving the penthouse kind of just happens. With someone as unstable as that at the top of the pent house I would have imagined that would just start pushing guest out the window just to piss of Batman. Seems like there could have been another approach to doing that scene.

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Old 03-20-2009, 04:04 PM   #64
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

I can see what you mean about the editing, but I'll just agree to disagree as I thought that breakneck pace worked only to it's advantage.

As for The Joker, there's always a different way to do things but I thought it was fine as is. He shoved Rachel out to get away, not just piss our caped crusader off.

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Old 03-20-2009, 04:27 PM   #65
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

ya, it is kind of a matter of personal taste. I like my movies to take their time to build up suspense. then again I am old fashion

well if you really wanna piss him off start shoving these people out windows... then again thats what I would do

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Old 03-20-2009, 08:34 PM   #66
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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No, but you can still get caught up in it emotionally despite knowing what's going to happen.

The bat-voice is interesting. It makes him seem not human, but the police he works with still treat him like a regular guy, more or less.
Thats another problem only Gordon should really treat and talk to Batman normally especially so early in the batmans career other people should see him as a freak or crazy where his loyaltys lie should still be dubious to them.

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Old 03-20-2009, 08:52 PM   #67
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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Thats another problem only Gordon should really treat and talk to Batman normally especially so early in the batmans career other people should see him as a freak or crazy where his loyaltys lie should still be dubious to them.
Only Gordon (out of the entire police force) really trusts Batman. Hence his hesitant assurance of, "He's in control" when Batman throws Joker against the wall and the other cops look at him like, "Ummm...?"

Ramirez especially shows some doubt, but she, as well as the others in the MCU, are subordinate to Gordon so she has to do what he says. But what I mean is that they're not scared of him or treat him like some otherworldly being. They're just not sure of his methods or intentions.

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Old 03-20-2009, 08:57 PM   #68
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

Waitaminute..

Travesty is the guy also known as Anjow???

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Old 03-21-2009, 05:12 AM   #69
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

This is one of my all time favorite movies and there where only two things that bothered me.
1- Batman's voice.
2- I thought maggie gillenhaul (or how ever you spell it) was kind of obnoxious.

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Old 03-21-2009, 10:57 AM   #70
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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Waitaminute..

Travesty is the guy also known as Anjow???
No, I'm just a regular guy, who happens to post on the Jow-boards. I used to post on BOF, but I got banned for it a long time ago. I used to post here under the tag "dark knigh7", but changed it to this, cause its just a run-off of my real name.


The funny thing is, Jow and I actually but heads quit a bit, and truth be told, I'm not to sure if he even likes me as it is.


Last edited by Travesty; 03-21-2009 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:13 AM   #71
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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I felt it didn't feel fluid at all. It felt abrupt and choppy. I said this when it first came out "the movie felt like it was running a marathon" While i understand that was the intended feel, I think if it gave me time for some of the things to build up it would have been better.
This was also my biggest complaint about the movie. And you describing it like a "marathon" is a good way of putting it. It was just next scene, next scene, next scene, next scene, etc up until the movie ended. There was no time for any emotions to sink in, or for you to take in the atmosphere of the background. I didn't feel attached to Gotham at all, not because of how "realistic" it was, but by how little emotion was put on the table. And the little emotion that was there, was just washed away by how fast the scenes went by, or how many other plots were going on in the movie. And this also contributes to why I didn't really enjoy The Joker, as it never gave us any time to actually feel anything for him, again, attributes from to many things going on in this movie to be distracted by. The story had WAYYY to much going on for what time they were given for this movie.


I would have liked it if they split this movie up into 2 separate films, and made it into the trilogy. In the second, focus more on The Joker and Batman, while introducing Dent. Have Rachel die at the end of the movie, along with Dents transformation into Two-Face. Then, the third movie would be all about Two-Face, and the capture/demise of him.

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Old 03-24-2009, 05:39 AM   #72
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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This was also my biggest complaint about the movie. And you describing it like a "marathon" is a good way of putting it. It was just next scene, next scene, next scene, next scene, etc up until the movie ended. There was no time for any emotions to sink in, or for you to take in the atmosphere of the background. I didn't feel attached to Gotham at all, not because of how "realistic" it was, but by how little emotion was put on the table. And the little emotion that was there, was just washed away by how fast the scenes went by, or how many other plots were going on in the movie. And this also contributes to why I didn't really enjoy The Joker, as it never gave us any time to actually feel anything for him, again, attributes from to many things going on in this movie to be distracted by. The story had WAYYY to much going on for what time they were given for this movie.


I would have liked it if they split this movie up into 2 separate films, and made it into the trilogy. In the second, focus more on The Joker and Batman, while introducing Dent. Have Rachel die at the end of the movie, along with Dents transformation into Two-Face. Then, the third movie would be all about Two-Face, and the capture/demise of him.
The movie was about Harvey Dent. That was the backbone of the film. His decent into darkness. The movie took it's time with that. It was that character that we needed to invest in and I felt very invested in that character. The build up was fantastic. Batman did not need a whole lot more build up and the Joker was meant to be mysterious and come out of no-where. The fact that he rips through every scene that he is in is what makes the performance so ferocious.

I would not have liked more Joker in the movie. I think he was in the perfect amount of time as was Batman. Two-face was haunting and memorable and brought the film full circle to Harveys demise.

People say it's too long.....not long enough. I feel as if no part of that movie could have been taken out and anything more added would have made it overstuffed. Just my opinion of course. It's not perfect but amazingly well constructed. I loved the pace personally. It's like hipnotic in it's tempo like a symphony.

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Old 03-24-2009, 08:16 AM   #73
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Default Re: Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

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What was wrong with the editing and pacing though? It moved very fluidly. My only real complaint when I think about it is the fight scenes, yet again. An improvement over BB because I could actually see what was happening but they really felt staged. Especially the combat in the HK sequence. Very plodding hand to hand. IDK if it's Nolan's fault or the choreographer's/actor's but it's just not up to snuff after stuff like Bourne, Bond and Taken.
I couldnt agree with you more!

Also, about the editing, well it was too choppy and abrupt and along with the tons of storylines that were developing in the movie, it made the movie really tiring after a while. There was never a cool moment in this movie and yada yada yada the joker is tearing gotham to bits, but there should be some relief for the tension in some scenes. I really missed the peacefull, atmospheric, dramatic, dreamy scenes we had in Begins like the one where Bruce is looking at the stethoscope. The only thing that came close was when Bruce was sobbing about Rachel but then BAM we cut to Dent's half face!

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Old 09-11-2009, 10:36 AM   #74
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Default Good God at the hate for this film !

Especially in the internet. For example,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/...read/147189150

There are also Dark Knight hate threads at the Casablanca boards, Lawrence of Arabia boards, the Matrix boards, Taken, X-men Origins, even the last temptaion of Christ board.

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Old 09-11-2009, 10:49 AM   #75
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Default Re: Good God at the hate for this film !

I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again, but I really didn't like TDK to much. Now, I don't "hate" it, but it's one of my least favorite Batman movies.

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