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Old 03-26-2009, 08:30 AM   #51
Hmarrs
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Default Re: Thor breaking the realism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
i don't actually read comics that much, most of my ideas of characterisation come from the cartoons.

cartoon writers are awesome

my ideas of the hulk come from the 90s tas show, the first series was amazing

my views of spiderman come from tas too. BUT it was Abbadon on this site who opened up my eyes to the flaws of it. I too loved the first film until abaddon made me realise parker is actually an arrogant dude who didn't have an outing for it until the bite, then he ****s up. not the announcer annoying him, there is NO incentive for parker to not take that robber down and he didn't fight for money, he did it for fame. Whether lee wrote it intentionally like that or not, it develops a far more complex character. It's a shame when its not followed up. You get him making all these cool inventions as well, inventions that can make him billions but he is humbled by his first lust of fame and doesn't go back.


as for the hulk, he was always portrayed as somewhat neutral in the cartoon i mentioned, bruce also kept a dictaphone so we could get inside his head. he always looked run down and guilty and you could see the conflict he had with the beast. you could see the strain it was taking on his sanity. You could see and hear the fear the man is strapped to an atomic bomb and no matter how many people the hulk 'doesn't kill' he can't live with it. On the flipside, you also see how the hulk feels about banner, about his surroundings, about hte people hunting him, he's forever antagonised. The hulk represents us, an ability to have and take what you want but when you have ultimate power, you normally find you wish for ultimate peace. he wants the same thing we want at the end of the day after he's dealt with the violence. he ultimately wants the same thing as banner. It's actually so beautiful for two characters to want the same thing but haye one another. Also seeing betty's relationship with both of them as she has feelings for the hulk and for bruce in a strange way.

the great thing about some of these shows was that it was all behind the lines, they are as shallow or as deep as you want them to be. The films don't have that depth because the writers don't UNDERSTAND how these characters interact. The funniest thing is that they interact no differently as any of us, we all have banner/parker/thor/stark/cap traits in us.

We all have a sense of duality and wish to lash out
We all feel guilty and the responsibility of not acting
We are all have this overbearing of destiny and reaching potential and having walk through fire
We all like to have a public mask of dealing with things while everything falls to bits underneath, we also use substances as a crutch
We all wish we could stand up and do the right thing all the time and be a symbol of hope

these characters are just hyperboles of these emotions while having others as well.When you start writing them as foreign entities rather than a part of yourself, you are destined to get them wrong. Anything these heroes do should do or the choices they make should be what we are capable of on our VERY BEST Days, and that's what makes it relatable because they capture a part of ourselves and should help us become better people.

that's why characters like captain america or superman's best powers aren't their weapons or their alien abilities, it's the fact that they are HUMAN and just like us, they have their trials and tribulations and just like idolised versions of us, they can still persevere

instead of accepting our destiny and the wrongs with the world, they lead us to a stature of self-empowerment to all make the small differences that eventually will add up.

or something like that for me anywho.
Wow!!!that's deep Rain are you sure you didn't miss your calling that sounded like a Sunday sermon.
It was good.Good and true.It's funny that you mentioned those perticular animated series because those in particular were true to the orinal source of comic material.I think you should pick up some Marvel late sixties early seventies issue's because they were even deeper then the series.I think you would love them.The read like Greek targeties.

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Old 03-26-2009, 08:33 AM   #52
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Default Re: Thor breaking the realism?

if you put each section around this [quote=*person's name*][/quote]

and you put the quote in the middle and make sure the dash isn't in bold, it normally works

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Old 03-26-2009, 08:34 AM   #53
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Default Re: Thor breaking the realism?

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Originally Posted by louiebling$ View Post
I dont get it? I mean Iron Man was put in a Semi Realistic world but Nothing that deems Thor as out of Place.. this isnt The Dark Knight. This is a Comic Book Adaptation,its a adapted from a fictional world not a real one so Realism is Not an Issue.
It is a movie... gaining its subject matter from comics, but still a movie. It is set in the here and now and peope will view it as a film, not a comic book. Most people (non-comiccon goers) place a context on a movie provided by the writer, director, actors, cinematographer, etc... LOTR was contexualized as being in the another world, with magic and beasts. Effective movie-making successfully presented the sense of what was real for the film, and successfully suspended disbelief... Dungeons and Dragons (the one with Marlon Wayans) was also in the another world, with magic and beasts... but it was damn awful, cheesy and not believable in any sense. But hey... it was a fantasy film... so people should just accept it.

Also try watching something like Solaris compared to Alien. A comic movie is a sci-fi / fantasy film and the very idea that simply because we know going in that it is based a comic book, people will just accept things, is very naive.

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Old 03-26-2009, 08:39 AM   #54
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Default Re: Thor breaking the realism?

[quote=Hmarrs;16655772]
Quote:
Wow!!!that's deep Rain are you sure you didn't miss your calling that sounded like a Sunday sermon.
Thanks, i have a way with words, i'm a better public speaker believe it or not. The word's don't quite capture it as well as when i say it.

i'm currently making plans to change the world in all honesty, so i hope it comes in handy. watch this space in the next 30 years.
Quote:
It was good.Good and true.It's funny that you mentioned those perticular animated series because those in particular were true to the orinal source of comic material.I think you should pick up some Marvel late sixties early seventies issue's because they were even deeper then the series.I think you would love them.The read like Greek targeties.
the only problem for me and old comics is the artwork, it doesn't quite capture me, i have a hard time reading them. Also while the stories themselves may be very good, the narration of them isn't always the best.

there are obviously teh classic stories that read well but here's aproblem#

most comics are rubbish. probably 95% are throwaway and i don't like wading through throwaway. I quite like modernised synopsis of classic tales though.

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Old 03-26-2009, 08:55 AM   #55
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Default Re: Thor breaking the realism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
i don't actually read comics that much, most of my ideas of characterisation come from the cartoons.

cartoon writers are awesome

my ideas of the hulk come from the 90s tas show, the first series was amazing

my views of spiderman come from tas too. BUT it was Abbadon on this site who opened up my eyes to the flaws of it. I too loved the first film until abaddon made me realise parker is actually an arrogant dude who didn't have an outing for it until the bite, then he ****s up. not the announcer annoying him, there is NO incentive for parker to not take that robber down and he didn't fight for money, he did it for fame. Whether lee wrote it intentionally like that or not, it develops a far more complex character. It's a shame when its not followed up. You get him making all these cool inventions as well, inventions that can make him billions but he is humbled by his first lust of fame and doesn't go back.


as for the hulk, he was always portrayed as somewhat neutral in the cartoon i mentioned, bruce also kept a dictaphone so we could get inside his head. he always looked run down and guilty and you could see the conflict he had with the beast. you could see the strain it was taking on his sanity. You could see and hear the fear the man is strapped to an atomic bomb and no matter how many people the hulk 'doesn't kill' he can't live with it. On the flipside, you also see how the hulk feels about banner, about his surroundings, about hte people hunting him, he's forever antagonised. The hulk represents us, an ability to have and take what you want but when you have ultimate power, you normally find you wish for ultimate peace. he wants the same thing we want at the end of the day after he's dealt with the violence. he ultimately wants the same thing as banner. It's actually so beautiful for two characters to want the same thing but haye one another. Also seeing betty's relationship with both of them as she has feelings for the hulk and for bruce in a strange way.

the great thing about some of these shows was that it was all behind the lines, they are as shallow or as deep as you want them to be. The films don't have that depth because the writers don't UNDERSTAND how these characters interact. The funniest thing is that they interact no differently as any of us, we all have banner/parker/thor/stark/cap traits in us.

We all have a sense of duality and wish to lash out
We all feel guilty and the responsibility of not acting
We are all have this overbearing of destiny and reaching potential and having walk through fire
We all like to have a public mask of dealing with things while everything falls to bits underneath, we also use substances as a crutch
We all wish we could stand up and do the right thing all the time and be a symbol of hope

these characters are just hyperboles of these emotions while having others as well.When you start writing them as foreign entities rather than a part of yourself, you are destined to get them wrong. Anything these heroes do should do or the choices they make should be what we are capable of on our VERY BEST Days, and that's what makes it relatable because they capture a part of ourselves and should help us become better people.

that's why characters like captain america or superman's best powers aren't their weapons or their alien abilities, it's the fact that they are HUMAN and just like us, they have their trials and tribulations and just like idolised versions of us, they can still persevere

instead of accepting our destiny and the wrongs with the world, they lead us to a stature of self-empowerment to all make the small differences that eventually will add up.

or something like that for me anywho.
This gave me a warm fuzzy. That is all.

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Old 03-26-2009, 09:15 AM   #56
Hmarrs
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Default Re: Thor breaking the realism?

[quote=November Rain;16655797]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmarrs View Post
Thanks, i have a way with words, i'm a better public speaker believe it or not. The word's don't quite capture it as well as when i say it.

i'm currently making plans to change the world in all honesty, so i hope it comes in handy. watch this space in the next 30 years.
__________________________________________________ _____________
How?
__________________________________________________ _____________
there are obviously teh classic stories that read well but here's aproblem#

most comics are rubbish. probably 95% are throwaway and i don't like wading through throwaway. I quite like modernised synopsis of classic tales though.
__________________________________________________ _____________
True.I be honestI would almost get rid of everything after the early eighties.

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Old 03-26-2009, 09:25 AM   #57
November Rain
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Default Re: Thor breaking the realism?

i was thinking about sending a giant squid into london and watching it kill millions...

something like that

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Old 03-26-2009, 09:51 AM   #58
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Default Re: Thor breaking the realism?

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
i was thinking about sending a giant squid into london and watching it kill millions...

something like that
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