Filling in the Plot Holes

[Marvin]

Guard

you single handedly put the kaabosh on the nit picking

[Kane52630]

he just dont to want to face the fact that its a movie based off of a toyline

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Originally Posted by Kane52630

5. Apparently, Transformers can look like people now. How?

Its nothing new.

Ever hear of the G1 Pretenders???

Originally Posted by Kane52630

And if Bumblebee knows something's wrong with her, why does he spit antifreeze at her instead of telling Sam?

Who said Bumblebee knew there was anything wrong with her???

Originally Posted by Kane52630

First, Transformers have kids?

Again nothing new????

And there's no reason to assume the family structur of a TF is the same as ours.

Originally Posted by Kane52630

And second, how could he descend from them if they were all dead?

Little imagination, many soldiers have kids after their deaths.

Originally Posted by Kane52630

Why did the ancient Egyptians build a pyramid around the sun-destroying machines instead of just breaking it?

Maybe they couldnt break it.......did you think of that??

[Mr. Earle]

Originally Posted by The Guard

And how is this relevant to how long it takes for them to get anywhere? What does Petra have to do with anything? I don't even remember Petra being mentioned in the movie.

Well that monument in Jordan that the matrix was entombed? Yeah... that's Petra.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by The Guard

I think you're wasting your time with this thread. It's pretty obvious some people just want to pick ROTF apart at every level, and simply don't want to think about the things in the movie that do make sense in context, because they're disappointed overall.

It's interesting, really. Because it's fine when characters in BATMAN BEGINS happen to run into each other or be related somehow, or loose plot threads manage to pull together, and it's fine in THE DARK KNIGHT when Harvey Dent happens to fall halfway into a puddle of gasoline that then happens to ignite to the point where he happens to be burnt halfway, or that a mob would keep all their money in one bank, or someone can fall out a window and survive a 40 MPH plunge onto a car unscathed, or a boat full of criminals doesn't blow up a boat full of innocents, or The Joker manages to put all those barrels and explosives on two National Guard supervised evacuation boats, but in a movie about giant transforming robots, apparently we need to question things like why the evil ones didn't just kill the humans outright, because that would be more realistic, or why the Allspark can both kill and heal...

I think there's some fair criticism of the movie, to be sure, and this movie has a number of flaws, over the top elements and what have you, but by and large over the last few days, it sort of comes down to, people have a perception of the film as a whole and either because they don't want to, or aren't capable of rational thinking, they want to impose that perception on every single element of it. And to hell and be damned with assessing each element fairly.

Originally Posted by LightningFlash

Anyone get tired of hearing people nit-pick over Bay's Transformer films, but yet no one in their right mind would dare to nit-pick over Spider-Man 2 or any of Nolan's Batman films, huh? And of silly things too, which can easily be answers.

Or, deep in their hearts, they really enjoyed the two movies, but just can't seem to say so, because the "cool thing" to do is bash Michael Bay.

And...are people dumb enough to not know that there is actually a REAL rail gun?

Both of you hit the nail on the head exactly with these posts, I love those other movies you mention, but they have tons of flaws as well and people seem to have a harder time pointing them out than they do in a Michael Bay movie.

Some of the criticisms I hear mentioned are laughable, like "why/ how did Sam's parents end up in Egypt?" "There is no such thing as the weapon they had on the airline carrier" I mean, are these people serious? As I and Lightning have pointed out, there IS such a thing as a rail gun.

Originally Posted by Superfreak

there is a subtitle that says the NEST team is 6 hours away recently after Simmons makes the phone call from Egypt. So that whole quest through the desert bit took place in a 6 hour time frame.

I can forgive them for the geography messing with the Museum scene.

But I think it's kind of pathetic for them to put the 'Great Pyramids' in Jordan (they cross the egyptian border, leaving Egypt before they get to the pyramids) coupled with the fact that they don't know where they are, are they in Jordan, or are they in Egypt(they're in Egypt, being rescued by Jordanian helos)? And at the same time, say that Petra is only 100miles away (maybe as the bird flies, without having to drive all the way around the southern tip of Isreal). It's kind of like saying NYC is actually in Mexico (and then forgeting whether you are in NYC or Mexico). It's just stupid.

Geography should be something that is not messed with in films IMO, you end up with little kids thinking one thing, not knowing that the filmmakers are a little uneducated.

Yes, of course, because they didnt have to load supplies, weapons, etcs onto the planes, or fuel them, or alert all the people who were travelling on the planes and check that they were present. They obviously didnt leave straight away, so it took more than 6 hours, there was even a night time scene between the phone call and that '6 hours away scene' which was in the day, it obviously took NEST a while to get there.

[Mr. Earle]

Anyone get tired of hearing people nit-pick over Bay's Transformer films, but yet no one in their right mind would dare to nit-pick over Spider-Man 2 or any of Nolan's Batman films, huh? And of silly things too, which can easily be answers.

Or, deep in their hearts, they really enjoyed the two movies, but just can't seem to say so, because the "cool thing" to do is bash Michael Bay.

And...are people dumb enough to not know that there is actually a REAL rail gun?

No, we nitpicked Nolan's films too! But Nolan had produced a much better script than Bay's and it didnt leave many things to complain about. You think people didnt complain about Batman pushing TwoFace to his death? Or how stupid it looked when Batman and Rachel survived that fall when it was obvious that they were falling too fast? We were nerdraging over these things for months!

But at least Nolan only did a few mistakes. Orci and Kurtzman probably wrote this script on a piece of toilet paper while they were taking a crap.

Yes, it might be cool to bash Michael Bay about his explosions fetish, but when people are attacking the flaws of the movie, those gigantic plot holes for instance, those unfinished subplots that carried no meaning or gravity, then its not because its cool.

You liked the movie 100%? Good for you. But others have the right to dislike it and you cant dismiss their opinions just like that.

[protocida]

Let's see...

1. In "Transformers," there was this giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles -- excuse me, Mission City -- that was witnessed by thousands of people at the very least. But somehow the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor? How did they do it? Pay off everyone who was there and quickly fix millions of dollars in damage?

Yes. Remember Sam's dad. He said Judy not to tell anything so the government would give rebuild their house.

Also, didn't Keller (Jon Voight) go on TV and tell everyone we were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to our own"? How did they spin that?

That wasn't in the movie.

3. Speaking of Megatron's rebirth, when the Decepticons venture deep into the ocean to revive him, the Navy crew tracking them reads five contacts. When they get down there, they tear apart one of the robots for parts to rebuild Megatron. Then as they rise to the surface, the same Navy guys say they spot six contacts. The little "Doctor" robot popped out down there, but he's about a third of the size of a person. Would he have shown up on sonar?

I believe so, yes.

Shia LaBeouf 4. That reminds me: even if I were to forgive the Doctor's German accent -- and director Michael Bay is asking me to forgive a lot of ridiculous accents -- why would a robot need glasses? He has little lenses that flip in front of his mechanical eyes. Couldn't he just get his eyes adjusted? You'd think with all the laser guns, someone could perform a Lasik procedure.

Those are doctor googles.

5. Apparently, Transformers can look like people now. How? And how is it that even though the robo-girl (Isabel Lucas) is made of metal, she can still straddle Sam without crushing him. And if Bumblebee knows something's wrong with her, why does he spit antifreeze at her instead of telling Sam? Yes, his voicebox is broken, but wasn't it fixed at the end of the last movie?

Alice scanned an "Alice in Wonderland" animatronic doll. And she's not that heavy (I'd say she's a little chubbier than Ravage's drone). Bumblebee doesn't know something's wrong with her. He just doesn't want Sam to cheat on Mikaela. And he's not completelly fixed. "He's still having voice problems".

Megan Fox 6. The Fallen is the last of the Primes, since they all sacrificed themselves to stop him from destroying the sun. But then he says that Optimus is a descendant of the Primes. First, Transformers have kids? And second, how could he descend from them if they were all dead?

Jetfire's comments about his family? Hatchlings on Mars?

And if the Fallen could only be destroyed by a Prime, why didn't the originals just gang up on him back in the day? And what makes Optimus so special, anyway? Megatron beat him earlier, but all it takes is a few spare parts from creaky old Jetfire for him to take out the Fallen?

The Fallen was at full power and had the Seekers by his side. Prime is a Prime (), but he's not invencible. He can be beaten. And he had new weapons and a Seeker's spark united to his damaged one. He got powered up.

7. Sam, Mikaela, and Simmons (John Turturro) go to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C. to find Jetfire. Then they walk out the back onto a wide open field with old planes and mountains in the distance. When did the National Mall start to look so much like to Tucson, AZ (where they really filmed that scene)?

The SmithSonian Museum had an airplane graveyard. It's a movie.

Megan Fox 8. The geography is just as bad when they go to Egypt. The stone city of Petra in Jordan is over 250 miles away, over mountainous terrain, with few paved roads and the Israeli border between them, so how can they drive from one to the other in a couple of hours. And the Pyramids are said to be shooting distance from the Mediterranean, but they are actually well over 80 miles inland.

It's a movie!

Even if the Navy ship had a secret rail gun, and even if the captain would take an order to fire from a former agent of a government branch that no longer exists (over a walkie-talkie that inexplicably starts working again), how could it hit a moving target from that distance?

The habillities of the Rail Gun weren't explicited. Besides, Simmons knew it existed and the government knew about Sector Seven. And the walkie-talkie was outside Starscream's EMP hit area, I believe.

9. Sam briefly dies and goes to Robot Heaven. Robot Heaven?!?!

We see the Dust get in contact with him. That's why.

Megan Fox 10. Where does Sam's bandage come from?

A napkin? A shock? A piece of clothing?

What about his extra sock?

How can we know it wasn't one of his socks?

Why does Sam's roommate not contribute anything at all?

He led them to Simmons.

What was the Fallen doing for those thousands of years Megatron was frozen in ice?

Waited?

How does one satellite receive transmissions from everywhere on the planet?

Because he's badass.

Why does Wheelie hump Mikaela's leg?

Because she's hot.

Why are robots who join together to become Devastator also seen fighting the Army at the same time?

Those were the Protoforms who landed on Egypt. Either they scanned the Construction's alt-modes or Soundwave provided them those.

Why does the government want only our military fighting Decepticons when our weapons seem unable to make so much as a dent on any of them?

What about the SABOTs? They worked.

Why did the ancient Egyptians build a pyramid around the sun-destroying machines instead of just breaking it?

It's Cybertronian technology. Maybe they couldn't.

Why is the Matrix of Leadership bigger in the Fallen's hand than in Sam's?

Was it?

And how do Mikaela's pants stay so clean?

They get dirty.

[Superfreak]

Originally Posted by The Guard

I'm iffy on exactly what you're concerned about. So NEST is six hours away wherever they're located before wheels up? And the issue is that they travel too far too fast, what? Where are Sam and the others before they begin their Trek?

it took Sam and crew 6 hours, to get from the great pyramids (which are now in jordan by the way) to Petra, and back, which I'd say is impossible, unless one goes straight through southern isreal



I think that's just a checkpoint, not neccessarily the actual border, though I guess it could be. Do they ever say it's the border?
generally when a character worries about having a passport, it's a border



And how is this relevant to how long it takes for them to get anywhere? What does Petra have to do with anything? I don't even remember Petra being mentioned in the movie.
where do you think the prime tomb was?: Petra, they say it loud a clear in the movie



I don't know any little kids who go into movies to learn where things are in relation to each other. But that might be just me.
some will pick it up, some won't, but it is wrong to be selling false info. Yes, it's a fictional story, but it is set in the our contemporary world. If anything, the 'real facts' in the movie, should be at least somewhat accurate

that's what I mean. Basically, it screams of apathy. Someone in the production, in the writing phase, could have take 1/2 an hour, to look up the region they were writing about on google, or in an encyclopedia. It would have taken no longer than that, to look up the facts... yet no one did this it seems. Most people when they get paid for doing something, try to ensure a level of quality control.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Earle

You liked the movie 100%? Good for you. But others have the right to dislike it and you cant dismiss their opinions just like that.

people can hate it(not like it) all they want, it's when they stop saying I don't like it and start saying that it's bad

when it affects others

this plot hole thread

some say all these things are plot holes and guard pretty much explained why they're not

you can still hate the movie but well...you know

any ways if your looking for plot holes and contrivicies look no further then the best rated live action adventure film of the summer

Star Trek

[Mr. Earle]

Well the total disrespect for geography didnt bother me as much as i thought it would.
But it is kind or stupid that the Pyramids are right on the one side of the border and the Petra monument on the other.

Do you guys know where Giza is? Somewhere in the middle of Egypt next to the Nile. Nowhere near the border. And Petra is somewhere in the jordanian desert. But even if you didnt know this, it would be stupid to buy that the two monuments are a couple of miles afar with the border in the middle.

But i suppose that by placing them near each other allowed the plot to work while using those two beautiful sites. So i suppose i can let it pass.

[Superfreak]

Originally Posted by Mr. Earle

Well the total disrespect for geography didnt bother me as much as i thought it would.
But it is kind or stupid that the Pyramids are right on the one side of the border and the Petra monument on the other.

Do you guys know where Giza is? Somewhere in the middle of Egypt next to the Nile. Nowhere near the border. And Petra is somewhere in the jordanian desert. But even if you didnt know this, it would be stupid to buy that the two monuments are a couple of miles afar with the border in the middle.

But i suppose that by placing them near each other allowed the plot to work while using those two beautiful sites. So i suppose i can let it pass.

you'd just think whoever wrote the script should have had a thought like this:
-I wanna set the finale of transformers 2 in the middle east
-I know nothing about the middle east except for country names
-maybe I should just look the stuff up, and familiarize myself with the setting


and seeing that the film crew actuaally had to travel between the two spots, they know what's up too.


that being said, Sam and crew cross the border from Egypt into Jordan, BEFORE they get to the pyramids, which is really confusing. So if we just assume that these are fictional pyramids in Jordan, that would explain why Jordanian helos come to the 'rescue' to deliver simmons an operation walky.

doesn't explain why simmons sends the soldiers to egypt. The movie is just inconsistent all the way through, that's the problem

[Hotwire]

Found this on IMDB.

Originally Posted by IMDB.com

The Constructicons in "Transformers" (1984) were a faction of robots who transformed into construction vehicles, and who could combine into the giant robot Devastator. However, in this film there are two fleets of Constructions: one fleet of disguised individual robots, and the other fleet combines to become Devastator. This is because the ILM VFXperts, who used a extraterrestrial/multi-segmented design for the robots, were unable to design robots who could become robots AND combine. The Hasbro Company suffered a parallel occurrence with Construction toys, and had to release them in two sets, as described above.

[Mr. Earle]

So the bots that form devastator cant turn into robots? The toys i mean...

[The Guard]

The Constructicons in "Transformers" (1984) were a faction of robots who transformed into construction vehicles, and who could combine into the giant robot Devastator. However, in this film there are two fleets of Constructions: one fleet of disguised individual robots, and the other fleet combines to become Devastator. This is because the ILM VFXperts, who used a extraterrestrial/multi-segmented design for the robots, were unable to design robots who could become robots AND combine. The Hasbro Company suffered a parallel occurrence with Construction toys, and had to release them in two sets, as described above.

There's your answer, Fishbulb.

[chaseter]

That is just sad and pathetic.

[craigdbfan]

Agreed.

[sandmjuggalos]

If you're playing with them...BOO!

If you're just shelving them...OK, it makes sense.

[dodgers2213]

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/...aqs.php?page=1

[macdawson]

One thing that bugs me is the Wheelie box. Mikaela takes it with her to Sam's college, throws it at Alice... they pick it up and throw it to the back seat of the car Mikaela hotwires. But after that car is cut in half we don't see the box again until Mikaela gets it out of Bee's trunk. When did the box get there? We see Mikaela and Leo run out of the factory and get inside BB while Sam runs with Optimus, but they're not carrying any box with them.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by macdawson

One thing that bugs me is the Wheelie box. Mikaela takes it with her to Sam's college, throws it at Alice... they pick it up and throw it to the back seat of the car Mikaela hotwires. But after that car is cut in half we don't see the box again until Mikaela gets it out of Bee's trunk. When did the box get there? We see Mikaela and Leo run out of the factory and get inside BB while Sam runs with Optimus, but they're not carrying any box with them.

I just assumed Bumblebee got it before he left the factory.

[protocida]

Mikaela could've also have asked Bumblebee to come back and get the box.

[Mr. Earle]

Originally Posted by The Guard

There's your answer, Fishbulb.

Maybe it doesnt work in the toys, and you need to get them separately, but it could work in the movie. They didnt need to make two sets of constructicons to do that. And in any case, it seemed like Devastator wasnt formed by robots, but by vehicles. Like the vehicles werent constructicons but they only formed Dev (like they said the bikes would do for Arcee).
In any case, Bay could have used Barricade or other robots if the constructicons were busy forming Dev.

Finally, i find it stupid that Demolishor and that constucticon are 99% identical. It seems to me that Bay looked at him and went
"gee, i could use this guy to tear up Shanghai and make a great opening scene".
"But michael, what about Devastator?"
"Just make up another identical robot!"

[macdawson]

Originally Posted by protocida

Mikaela could've also have asked Bumblebee to come back and get the box.

Thats one of the things i keep telling myself but what happens too often in the movie is that you have to make way too many assumptions. Don't get me wrong, i loved the movie.

An idea:
Lets grab the two movies and make a TV series out of them, adding new fotage to fill the holes and give more screen time to the robots. That whould be great. And have Michael Bay direct it, too. (Now i've gone too far).

[Seth71]

Originally Posted by dodgers2213

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/...aqs.php?page=1

LOL at that. Very funny.

[Zanman1]

Have you ever seen where sequels go back and explain things that occurred in previous films? Perhaps, that's what Bay and his crew are doing to tie the three movies together? I admit, I missed Barricade, he just disappeared. As far as the shard bringing back Prime. We have to realize that we know things the main characters do not. Megatron needed "parts" and the shard. Where do they get parts for Prime? Jetfire who sacrificed himself at the end. Prime was alive but weak and needed parts just like Megatron. Autobots sacrifice, Decepticons murder! Besides, I don't even think Prime realizes how significant a Transformer he is. He is OPTIMUS PRIME but if you remember in the beginning of the first film he mentions the cube but "we know not where it comes from". He also does not know of the Fallen as he explains in the briefing "origin unknown". Perhaps, the third film will bring to light the origin of the Transformers? It is possible, The Fallen did not tell Megatron he was already a Prime so he would not try to overthrow him. Megatron is so blinded by his pride and rage, he does not realize this. Yes, he should have thought something when he could kill Optimus but didn't because he was blinded by his own rage and the mission TO GET SAM. Plus, let's read the script carefully. Take it for what is, don't reword it. The Fallen said only a Prime can defeat him. Yes, that COULD mean only a Prime can kill a Prime but keep in mind you don't have to kill to defeat. Bumblebee defeated Barricade without killing him. Maybe he meant in a one on one fight only a Prime can defeat a Prime? Instead of mocking Megatron killing Prime and calling it stupid think if there is something emerging about Megatron. All I am saying is that we have to suspend our beliefs a little and not be so picky. It was an awesome movie and whether it was plot holes or editing errors, let your imagination fill them in, it makes it even more fun. Instead of letting our imaginations go we would rather beat up the director. Bay seems like a prankster so maybe he made a more intelligent film than we are giving credit for? Keep in mind, he answers to people too. The studio wanted it by a certain date so blame them. Apparently, they don't care if you enjoy the movie or not they just need your butt in the seat. Michael Bay from what i heard tried to get it pushed back and they refused. So he did the best he could. I loved the movie and the fact that Michael Bay did so well under such pressure makes we wonder how much better the movie could have been if the studio execs left him alone. I blame them! As far as the constructicons go I wish we could have seen individual robot forms before merging, I like the explanation about why the multiple constructicons, it makes sense. They have nothing else to imitate but the ones who already arrived. I like the Doctor alot and his accent does not bother me. Remember they want to blend in so they pick up EVERYTHING! "We learned earth's languages from the world wide web" seemed to explain Jazz so why are we bashing the Doctor? Sam didn't necessarily die and go to Robot heaven. Remember all the cubes energy was now in Sam. He was able to access the history and connect with those in the past Just like the animated Prime did in the "Return of Optimus Prime" cartoon. I also think the critics wanted to beat up Michael Bay. From what i read he insulted the Hollywood elite by saying screw the critics. I guess they were gonna show him! So who knows. In conclusion because I could go on all day. I think ROTF was more for Trans geeks but for some reason we all want to stay in 1984. As long as the film pays homeage to one of the greatest toy ideas and cartoons in history I am fine with it. Since it is a trilogy I am going to give Bay the benefit of the doubt that many what think are plot holes are questions to be answered later and meant to keep us coming back for more. Like I said before, the critics beat him up ALOT. I remember before even seeing the movie I thought it was bit much. I mean they railed him. If it was THAT bad the first few viewers would have spread the word or people would have listened to the critics and it NEVER would have reached over $400 MILLION! I can't wait for TF3 and look forward to the end of what is ending up being one of the best trilogy's of all time and not just because i am a TF geek.