"Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! - Page 2

AVEITWITHJAMON · 07-05-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guard

Whether Prime was on Earth during the first events of TRANSFORMERS is irrelevant.

The autobots were at war with the Decepticons, period. Prime was around, period, and The Fallen didn't want to risk facing him. That's why, as ROTF actually tells us, he created the Decepticons to do his work for him. Had The Fallen gone to Earth and starting stirring up some kind of trouble just because Prime wasn't there at the time, Prime and the autobots would probably have gone there, just as they did when the cube landed on Earth and the Decepticons went after it.

Exactly, why risk death by facing him when he can get The Decepticons to do it for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Man, you really do defend anything. There wasn't anything special about Optimus, he was just good at kicking ass. We get the line that only a Prime is capable of defeating him, but they never bother to explain why. We are simply not supposed to question it. The Fallen had all the advantages and could have easily obliterate Prime before the fusion with Jetfire.

Of course there is something special about Optimus, he was a Prime, the last Prime. I dont think it needed explaining why only a Prime could defeat, as to me it was pretty obvious, The Fallen is a fallen prime, and was once a Prime, so it makes it obvious to me that only a Prime could defeat him.

Rock Sexton · 07-05-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Man, you really do defend anything. There wasn't anything special about Optimus, he was just good at kicking ass. We get the line that only a Prime is capable of defeating him, but they never bother to explain why. We are simply not supposed to question it. The Fallen had all the advantages and could have easily obliterate Prime before the fusion with Jetfire.

Bingo.

We're just supposed to take the storyline's convenient and lazy explanation.

Nathan · 07-05-2009, 04:10 PM

What's obvious? He's got the title Prime, sure, but he doesn't seem to have anything special that sets him apart from other Autobots. He can't Teleport, levitate objects or has any other abilities. He's just a capable combatant. And if it wouldn't have been for the power boost, I can't see how the Fallen could've possibly lost to him.

AVEITWITHJAMON · 07-05-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

What's obvious? He's got the title Prime, sure, but he doesn't seem to have anything special that sets him apart from other Autobots. He can't Teleport, levitate objects or has any other abilities. He's just a capable combatant. And if it wouldn't have been for the power boost, I can't see how the Fallen could've possibly lost to him.

There is something obviously about the Prime's that is special, for example, in the movie also, only a Prime could use The Matrix's powers.

Nathan · 07-05-2009, 06:07 PM

Yeah, you need to be really special to put the Matrix into the machine. Sam could've done that...

There seems to be something special about the past Primes alright, but Optimus isn't anything like the past Primes. Optimus is no different than his fellow Autobots.

Chris B · 07-05-2009, 09:43 PM

I thought he was pretty cool despite getting taken out too easily. Tony Todd also did an awesome job voicing him.

portland2002 · 07-06-2009, 04:49 AM

Horrible plotline ... bad title ... very predictable ... atrocious dialogue ... cliched ... master and apprentice ... Vader and Sidious ... CINO looked like Casablanca by comparison.

AVEITWITHJAMON · 07-06-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Yeah, you need to be really special to put the Matrix into the machine. Sam could've done that...

There seems to be something special about the past Primes alright, but Optimus isn't anything like the past Primes. Optimus is no different than his fellow Autobots.

But Sam couldnt have activated the power/energy within the Matrix, only a Prime can, and if Optimus is no different than the other autobots, why was Jetfire so awe-struck in his presence? I didnt see Jetfire saying "Wow, a living Ironhide" did you?

Mr. Earle · 07-06-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

But Sam couldnt have activated the power/energy within the Matrix, only a Prime can, and if Optimus is no different than the other autobots, why was Jetfire so awe-struck in his presence? I didnt see Jetfire saying "Wow, a living Ironhide" did you?

I lol'ed!!!

Nathan · 07-06-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

But Sam couldnt have activated the power/energy within the Matrix, only a Prime can, and if Optimus is no different than the other autobots, why was Jetfire so awe-struck in his presence? I didnt see Jetfire saying "Wow, a living Ironhide" did you?

That's the goddamn problem. Apparently Primes are supposed to be special. The past Primes undoubtedly were, as demonstrated by the Fallen. Now what's special about Optimus? None bothers to explain and he never demonstrates other abilities a Prime would have. All we have is a lazy script that puts Optimus on a pedestal and we're just supposed to go with it.

Rock Sexton · 07-06-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

But Sam couldnt have activated the power/energy within the Matrix, only a Prime can, and if Optimus is no different than the other autobots, why was Jetfire so awe-struck in his presence? I didnt see Jetfire saying "Wow, a living Ironhide" did you?

...........but see it's a cheap, quick response to sure up a plot point.

Instead of dedicating so much screen time to obnoxious jokes and annoying twins, Bay could've expanded on what make OP a prime and what allows him to be the only Autobot to defeat The Fallen instead of the whole "Here you go - because we said so" ......

Jager X · 07-06-2009, 06:32 PM

The whole plot surrounding the Primes was so damn retarded. If there was any logical thinking approached to this story then we not even have a sequal and that is a problem. Ok, so the only thing that can kill a Prime is another Prime. Now when the Fallen went to war against the other six Primes, they should have easily ripped him limb from limb. Instead of killing the most powerful transformer that will stop at nothing to destroy every planet in the universe, they commit suicide. WHAT. THE. *****?! If the original Primes loved humanity so much then they should not have allowed so much needless suffering in the name of the Fallen, especially when it only takes 15 seconds out of their centuries-long life span to kill him.

AVEITWITHJAMON · 07-07-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Earle

I lol'ed!!!

Ha ha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

That's the goddamn problem. Apparently Primes are supposed to be special. The past Primes undoubtedly were, as demonstrated by the Fallen. Now what's special about Optimus? None bothers to explain and he never demonstrates other abilities a Prime would have. All we have is a lazy script that puts Optimus on a pedestal and we're just supposed to go with it.

He is the last descendant of The Prime's, who were the leaders of the original Transformer race, if that doesnt make him special I dont know what does. As it stated in the movie also, only a Prime can wield the power of The Matrix Of Leadership.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager X

The whole plot surrounding the Primes was so damn retarded. If there was any logical thinking approached to this story then we not even have a sequal and that is a problem. Ok, so the only thing that can kill a Prime is another Prime. Now when the Fallen went to war against the other six Primes, they should have easily ripped him limb from limb. Instead of killing the most powerful transformer that will stop at nothing to destroy every planet in the universe, they commit suicide. WHAT. THE. *****?! If the original Primes loved humanity so much then they should not have allowed so much needless suffering in the name of the Fallen, especially when it only takes 15 seconds out of their centuries-long life span to kill him.

Jetfire states in the movie that The Fallen was stronger than the other Prime's, thats why they couldnt kill him, they could only wound him and get the Matrix away from him as quickly as possible and hide it.

SciFi Warlock · 07-07-2009, 06:19 PM

The way I saw it was the Fallen was an interesting villian. I viewed him as lazy and not really wanting to do anything and had the Decepticons do his work for him. He was just lying around the decepticon lair spouting orders and saying that he can't do anything until the last Prime is offline.

Once Optimus Prime went offline at Megatron's hand he finally got up from his "Bed" but it seemed more like "Man, now I gotta get up and do something, I just lost my last excuse".

I thought is was subtle and done well. Even when the Fallen was on Earth he did not do anything until he had no choice or he would look bad to his underlings.

Nathan · 07-07-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

He is the last descendant of The Prime's, who were the leaders of the original Transformer race, if that doesnt make him special I dont know what does. As it stated in the movie also, only a Prime can wield the power of The Matrix Of Leadership.

Dude, are you just messing with me or what? What abilities does Optimus demonstrate that supposedly make him the only one being able to defeat the Fallen? The only reason Optimus could take on the Fallen, was because Jetfire gave him his powers. Before that, the Fallen had every advantage thanks to his abilities.

Now if Optimus would've actually used the Matrix to defeat the Fallen, we probably wouldn't have this argument. Because only a Prime can use the Matrix, and thats why the Fallen can only be defeated by a Prime.

The Guard · 07-07-2009, 08:33 PM

True, they never do point out what's so special about being a Prime, but I like to think Prime's actions, like in the comics and show, sort of speak for themselves in various areas.

I also can't help but notice, there's a lot of talk about how Prime only beat The Fallen with Jetfire's parts, but after defeating Megatron, Prime pretty much beats The Fallen without using the parts he got from Jetfire other than sort of using it to "super block". He basically just kicks the crap out of him with hand to hand combat. If anything, the parts would hinder that asskicking. I don't think it's implied he was given super strength beyond his usual or anyting like that, just flight, a lot more airspeed, and bigger weapons.

dodgers2213 · 07-07-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

Of course there is something special about Optimus, he was a Prime, the last Prime. I dont think it needed explaining why only a Prime could defeat, as to me it was pretty obvious, The Fallen is a fallen prime, and was once a Prime, so it makes it obvious to me that only a Prime could defeat him.

ummmm, WHAT?

You didn't answer the question...WHY can only a prime beat the fallen?...the Fallen is a fallen prime so only a prime can beat a fallen prime because....why? Just because the script said so?

The Guard · 07-07-2009, 08:49 PM

I kind of took it at first as a psychological weakness The Fallen has after being a Prime, being cast out, and believing he was still on that level. That it would take a Prime to defeat him.

dodgers2213 · 07-07-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guard

I kind of took it at first as a psychological weakness The Fallen has after being a Prime, being cast out, and believing he was still on that level. That it would take a Prime to defeat him.

still makes no sense

Anubis Raptor · 07-07-2009, 11:28 PM

I love The Fallen. Tony Todd was perfect for him!!! His voice was sooo amazing!!

Mr. Earle · 07-08-2009, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

Jetfire states in the movie that The Fallen was stronger than the other Prime's, thats why they couldnt kill him, they could only wound him and get the Matrix away from him as quickly as possible and hide it.

So the rest of the original primes couldnt kill him but one of their descendants, whose only powers are fists and kicks can? Dayum.... thats ****** storytelling right here!

Nathan · 07-08-2009, 03:02 AM

And only wound him? They impaled him with two spears. You'd think they had the freaking sense to dogpile him right then and there.

Mr. Earle · 07-08-2009, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

And only wound him? They impaled him with two spears. You'd think they had the freaking sense to dogpile him right then and there.

Primes... stupidest robots on the universe... The Fallen was sick of their stupidity.

The Guard · 07-08-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

still makes no sense

What makes no sense?

It's a complex he could have. That only a Prime could defeat him.

Rock Sexton · 07-08-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guard

What makes no sense?

It's a complex he could have. That only a Prime could defeat him.

We're attempting to psychoanalyze Fallen's "complexes" now?

07-05-2009, 04:10 PM	#28
Nathan - Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 35,660	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! What's obvious? He's got the title Prime, sure, but he doesn't seem to have anything special that sets him apart from other Autobots. He can't Teleport, levitate objects or has any other abilities. He's just a capable combatant. And if it wouldn't have been for the power boost, I can't see how the Fallen could've possibly lost to him.

07-05-2009, 06:07 PM	#30
Nathan - Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 35,660	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! Yeah, you need to be really special to put the Matrix into the machine. Sam could've done that... There seems to be something special about the past Primes alright, but Optimus isn't anything like the past Primes. Optimus is no different than his fellow Autobots.

07-05-2009, 09:43 PM	#31
Chris B Side-Kick Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,141	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! I thought he was pretty cool despite getting taken out too easily. Tony Todd also did an awesome job voicing him. __________________ "Is it fear or courage that compels you, fleshling?"

07-06-2009, 04:49 AM	#32
portland2002 Side-Kick Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,194	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! Horrible plotline ... bad title ... very predictable ... atrocious dialogue ... cliched ... master and apprentice ... Vader and Sidious ... CINO looked like Casablanca by comparison. __________________ "We've been down in the series and we've had nonbelievers all the way. I have one thing to say to those nonbelievers, never underestimate the heart of a champion." - Rudy Tomjonavich, 1995.

07-06-2009, 06:32 PM	#37
Jager X Banned User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,422	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! The whole plot surrounding the Primes was so damn retarded. If there was any logical thinking approached to this story then we not even have a sequal and that is a problem. Ok, so the only thing that can kill a Prime is another Prime. Now when the Fallen went to war against the other six Primes, they should have easily ripped him limb from limb. Instead of killing the most powerful transformer that will stop at nothing to destroy every planet in the universe, they commit suicide. WHAT. THE. *****?! If the original Primes loved humanity so much then they should not have allowed so much needless suffering in the name of the Fallen, especially when it only takes 15 seconds out of their centuries-long life span to kill him.

07-07-2009, 06:19 PM	#39
SciFi Warlock Side-Kick Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 31	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! The way I saw it was the Fallen was an interesting villian. I viewed him as lazy and not really wanting to do anything and had the Decepticons do his work for him. He was just lying around the decepticon lair spouting orders and saying that he can't do anything until the last Prime is offline. Once Optimus Prime went offline at Megatron's hand he finally got up from his "Bed" but it seemed more like "Man, now I gotta get up and do something, I just lost my last excuse". I thought is was subtle and done well. Even when the Fallen was on Earth he did not do anything until he had no choice or he would look bad to his underlings.

07-07-2009, 08:33 PM	#41
The Guard Side-Kick Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,117	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! True, they never do point out what's so special about being a Prime, but I like to think Prime's actions, like in the comics and show, sort of speak for themselves in various areas. I also can't help but notice, there's a lot of talk about how Prime only beat The Fallen with Jetfire's parts, but after defeating Megatron, Prime pretty much beats The Fallen without using the parts he got from Jetfire other than sort of using it to "super block". He basically just kicks the crap out of him with hand to hand combat. If anything, the parts would hinder that asskicking. I don't think it's implied he was given super strength beyond his usual or anyting like that, just flight, a lot more airspeed, and bigger weapons. __________________ Writer and Lyricist of GOTHAM'S KNIGHT: THE BATMAN MUSICAL And if I'm right The future's looking bright A symbol in the skies at night Last edited by The Guard; 07-07-2009 at 08:41 PM.

07-07-2009, 08:49 PM	#43
The Guard Side-Kick Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,117	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! I kind of took it at first as a psychological weakness The Fallen has after being a Prime, being cast out, and believing he was still on that level. That it would take a Prime to defeat him. __________________ Writer and Lyricist of GOTHAM'S KNIGHT: THE BATMAN MUSICAL And if I'm right The future's looking bright A symbol in the skies at night

07-07-2009, 11:28 PM	#45
Anubis Raptor The Mighty Avenger. Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Dark Ages Posts: 1,389	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! I love The Fallen. Tony Todd was perfect for him!!! His voice was sooo amazing!! __________________ *THOR!* Clint Walker would've made a phenomenal Superman. Mark Ruffalo

07-08-2009, 03:02 AM	#47
Nathan - Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 35,660	Re: "Only a Prime can defeat me" The Fallen Thread! And only wound him? They impaled him with two spears. You'd think they had the freaking sense to dogpile him right then and there.

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