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Old 07-22-2009, 08:23 AM   #1
Lunar_Wolf
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Default Beast Machines Thread

I'm almost finished watching the first season.

Hate how some of the TF look, hate Nightscream and the way Rattrap is mistreated. But, the storyline is pretty deep and dark. The storyline keeps it going for me.

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Old 07-22-2009, 09:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Good show with many epic episodes. Course, I didn't really find the whole "idea" of reformating Cybertron as a sensible story, but oh well. Megatron and the Vehicons ftw.

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Old 07-22-2009, 11:26 AM   #3
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

I thought it was well done in my opinion. The story is very well written, its an eery feeling when you first see that empty cybertron. I thought the way the added things from the original series and BW was really well done. I do think some of the characters designs needed work but other then that i enjoyed all the characters. Yes, even nightscream. He just addds to the insight of the how reformatting process and how it worked for himself. I also loved the evolution of th characters as well. Especially in Cheetor, you can really tell he grew up and really was second command and the leader at times. Optimus Primal was great too its really nice to see really two sides to an Optimus before, yeah hes still a fighter and a father figure to them as well as their leader but he also connects to the matrix which is a first and i thought was done nicely. Rhinox, was to me a great character. Very dark and mature story on that part. Just the way he had become something to had fought so long against and not only that he was severely destroyed mentally by Megatron, he was never the same until he died. Silverbolt was another good character, not great as i felt there could have been more to him. Megatron is once again, a evil genius. And i might get bashed for this but i honestly feel like no other series including the films and original series was had a Megatron this great as the BW BM era. He really brings these characteristics that we dont see much of in the other Megatrons, hes really one step ahead of everyone and its just plain scary hes a great strategist.

Yeah alot of people say the reformatting story didnt work, but i honestly felt it did and it was done nicely. It was something really original and it was a really good series. I wish they wouldve continued with the Transtech, cause now we have that poorly animated stuff

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Old 07-22-2009, 04:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

I just finished watching it again for the second time. I'll just repost my pros and cons from the Beast Wars thread, since I still stand by them:
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Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1 View Post
So I'm watching Beast Machines again, which I'm always ambivalent about. There are some really great bits and some really terrible bits and a whole lot of everything in-between. So I decided to sit down and make a list of pros and cons:

PROS
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
- Fantastic animation, even by today's standards

- Good music (although they constantly loop the "action theme" music for virtually everything, which gets annoying)

- Premise and first episode up until Optimus' 'transformation' are excellent and up the ante in the conflict between Megatron and the Maximals

- Interesting switch from two equal warring factions in BW to more of a Maximal guerilla resistance vs. a vastly more powerful Megatron in BM

- Several of the characters' beast modes and/or robot modes look great, especially Cheetor's robot mode

- Great character arc for Optimus Primal--between him and Megatron, we got interesting looks at fanaticism on both sides of one conflict, which broke down barriers between usually simple concepts of "good" and "evil" in the Transformers mythos

- Good character arc for Rattrap--the quintessential soldier being forced to adapt to a new body devoid of weaponry and finding some peace and relief from his cynicism via his romance with Botanica

- Botanica is cool

- Good character arc for Waspinator/Thrust--the guy who used to be a joke regains his identity but rejects it because, frankly, his old life sucked and his new one is pretty sweet by comparison

- Good struggle for Blackarachnia to reclaim her lost love; role-reversal of character arc from Beast Wars between her and Silverbolt

- Megatron's genuinely f***ing scary at a lot of points in the series

- Brings a (kind of) logical conclusion to the G1 era of Transformers


CONS
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
- Maximals morph rather than transform

- Once the Maximals learn to morph, we find that their robot modes have funky energy redirection or tasers or swords instead of any kind of traditional Transformer weaponry, which further distances the techno-organic characters from the Transformers legacy

- Transformation being equated to spirituality kind of sucked

- Terrible character arc for Rhinox--resurrected as an enemy, regains memories, STAYS an enemy for completely uncharacteristic reasons, and ultimately dies a psychotic moron (I still attribute it to his Vehicon shell program corrupting his mind, regardless of what Bob Skir or the other writers claim)

- Badly executed character arc for Cheetor--instead of showing him maturing and becoming a logically challenging voice to Optimus' leadership as intended, he's portrayed as whinier than ever

- Terrible, angsty character arc for the previously fun Silverbolt--his answer to enjoying being free of his code of honor as Jetstorm is to continue to ignore his code of honor once his mind is clear, drive Blackarachnia away, and occasionally endanger his supposed friends

- Rattrap has no legs and generally looks stupid in robot mode

- Nightscream... I'll just leave it at that

- Savage/Noble beast-to-beast transformation (and the character in general) was lame

- Megatron becomes a bit of a joke in the second season, jumping from body to body and generally being kind of useless

- Strika and Obsidian were boring non-characters with very little personality or charisma, unlike the unique, varied, and, most importantly, fun villains of Beast Wars like Inferno, Rampage, Quickstrike, et al.

- Automatically portraying techno-organic as better than purely cybernetic for no real reason was a bit stupid

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Old 07-24-2009, 05:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

I'm starting season 2 now.

I agree with you TheCorpulent1, except for the Rhinox, I loved that storyline.

Nightscream is the worst tf of all time!

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Old 07-24-2009, 06:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Yeah, he was a lot worse than Cheetor ever was in Beast Wars. Apparently, they wanted him to be female and based on the spunky little girl in Aliens. Hasbro said no, so they made him a male based on John Connor from Terminator 2 (his goofy hair is supposed to be an homage to Edward Furlong's John Connor). The rest is whiny, bratty history.

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Old 07-24-2009, 06:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

If this was just some random Transformers show... that had all new characters. I'd think it was alright.

As the follow up to Beast Wars? It ****ing sucked.

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Old 07-24-2009, 06:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Oh god....I really hate that stupid bit of hair on his head. I just want someone to snip it off.

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Old 07-24-2009, 06:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilpesh View Post
If this was just some random Transformers show... that had all new characters. I'd think it was alright.

As the follow up to Beast Wars? It ****ing sucked.
It had its good bits. The writing was of particularly high quality compared to most other Transformers shows. It handled some complex concepts pretty well. It just didn't really work as a Transformers series for me for two main reasons: 1) morphing, and 2) the Oracle never really gave a reason why technorganics were supposed to be the key to Cybertron's future. If you're gonna turn eons of fully mechanical society on its head like that, there should be some kind of reason beyond "a big, shiny computer told me to."

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Old 07-24-2009, 06:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1 View Post
It had its good bits. The writing was of particularly high quality compared to most other Transformers shows. It handled some complex concepts pretty well.
Which is why it would be alright if it didn't have the weight on its shoulders of being a follow up to Beast Wars. I enjoyed watching some of it but just eventually stopped because it was a different show even though it had the 'same characters' as Beast Wars.

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Old 07-24-2009, 06:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Yeah, it got a bit too spiritual with the technorganic stuff for my tastes. If it focused more on freeing the sparks, gave a reason for making Cybertron technorganic (which would be really easy), and eliminated morphing and stuff like Savage/Noble, it could've been solid with almost the same storyline.

Oh, and while making Rattrap, the consummate spy/soldier, deal with not having weapons made for a decent character arc, his redesign totally sucked. Come on, dude, the guy did more to win the Beast Wars for the Maximals than anyone else, but he gets back to Cybertron and loses his f***ing legs? Harsh, dude. Harsh.

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Old 07-24-2009, 06:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Also, why were they back in their original Beast Modes when they first crashed on Cybertron? What happened to the transmetal forms?

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Old 07-24-2009, 06:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Oh. That was another thing I didn't like... redesigns... why? (toys, I know) At least have a little Beast Wars form action before suddenly making all the characters look like crap.

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Old 07-24-2009, 06:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

I rather liked Cheetor and Optimus' robot forms. It was nice to see Optimus Primal finally have a face that wasn't a slight redesign of Optimus Prime's.
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Also, why were they back in their original Beast Modes when they first crashed on Cybertron? What happened to the transmetal forms?
That was actually explained: Megatron developed a transformation lock virus that he weaponized and gave to his Vehicons, so right when the Maximals approached Cybertron, they were shot down and hit with the virus, leaving their memories fragmented and their bodies reverted to their original beast forms. (How that works for Optimus, whose "original" beast form in that body was, in fact, his Transmetal form, is something fans have wondered but will obviously never be answered.)

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Old 07-24-2009, 08:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1 View Post
I rather liked Cheetor and Optimus' robot forms. It was nice to see Optimus Primal finally have a face that wasn't a slight redesign of Optimus Prime's.

That was actually explained: Megatron developed a transformation lock virus that he weaponized and gave to his Vehicons, so right when the Maximals approached Cybertron, they were shot down and hit with the virus, leaving their memories fragmented and their bodies reverted to their original beast forms. (How that works for Optimus, whose "original" beast form in that body was, in fact, his Transmetal form, is something fans have wondered but will obviously never be answered.)
Ah, okay, thanks. I always wondered about that and I missed some episodes of the show so I knew there had to be an explaination I missed.

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Old 07-25-2009, 09:39 AM   #16
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Yeah, it's explained in flashbacks in that same episode where we learn Rhinox is Tankor.

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Old 07-25-2009, 10:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

I must be in the minority here. I thought BM was absolutely terrible. As both a follow up to BW and as a Transformers story in general.

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Old 07-26-2009, 09:13 AM   #18
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Eh, I liked Beast Machines, although it does seem that too many things were done on the show for the most inane of reasons. It's as if the producers were either trying to shake things up for mere shock value, or because they'd run out of ideas during each writing session and started falling back on cliches.

There's a lot of potential in the premise of Beast Machines that I just think wasn't properly tapped (then again, I could say that for pretty much ANY non-toy TF incarnation since "Beast Wars").

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Old 07-27-2009, 09:31 AM   #19
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

What do you mean "non-toy"? Beast Machines had a toy line. As I understand it, all TF series are toy-based, since Hasbro owns the rights and is primarily interested in selling its toys. The one exception I can think of is IDW's Transformers comics, since they're publishing a retooled version of G1 when no G1 toys are on the shelves.

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Old 07-27-2009, 11:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

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What do you mean "non-toy"? Beast Machines had a toy line. As I understand it, all TF series are toy-based, since Hasbro owns the rights and is primarily interested in selling its toys. The one exception I can think of is IDW's Transformers comics, since they're publishing a retooled version of G1 when no G1 toys are on the shelves.
Which you can kinda say that they've done with the universe line.

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Old 07-27-2009, 11:22 AM   #21
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

True, although the Universe line technically had comics of its own through the TF fan club magazines and conventions.

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Old 07-27-2009, 11:45 AM   #22
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1 View Post
What do you mean "non-toy"? Beast Machines had a toy line. As I understand it, all TF series are toy-based, since Hasbro owns the rights and is primarily interested in selling its toys. The one exception I can think of is IDW's Transformers comics, since they're publishing a retooled version of G1 when no G1 toys are on the shelves.
I should have worded that better; I was referring strictly to the series, not the toy line.

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Old 07-27-2009, 11:47 AM   #23
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

Oh, okay. Yeah, the post-Beast Wars shows have been pretty rough. But I haven't watched Animated yet and I hear that's good. Kind of lame that it got canceled already, but I suppose 3 seasons is solid for any cartoon built entirely around a toy line.

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Old 07-27-2009, 03:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: Beast Machines Thread

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Oh, okay. Yeah, the post-Beast Wars shows have been pretty rough. But I haven't watched Animated yet and I hear that's good. Kind of lame that it got canceled already, but I suppose 3 seasons is solid for any cartoon built entirely around a toy line.
Animated is one of my favs. The animation was weird at first, but as the seasons go on, it gets heaving with G1 references. One ep has an awesome Beast Wars moment.

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