The Official Steve Ditko's Spiderman Appreciation Thread

[Brimay]

I havn't seen a thread for my favourite artist of all time, so discuss, and post pictures of the best version of spiderman(In my opinion).













And the man himself!



And since this is a comic part of the sm forum, here are some of my favourites.








Great ending in this one.

[Donald Thomas]

Aloha,
Welcome to the hype. You couldn't have started out with a better subject.Ditko is the originator, the innovator and the emancipator. Or was that Little Richard?
Spidey rules

[Brimay]

Originally Posted by Donald Thomas

Aloha,
Welcome to the hype. You couldn't have started out with a better subject.Ditko is the originator, the innovator and the emancipator. Or was that Little Richard?
Spidey rules

Exactly, i just feel a lack of respect for ditko in the spiderman world.
It seems like to me that romita is getting all the glory, don't get me wrong i like his work up to # 55. but nothing of his work can compare to the best.

[Donald Thomas]

Aloha,
Along with the Omnibus, here are some more Ditko books.





Spidey rules

[The Bruce]

I love Ditko's Spidey. I buy reprints of the same comics again and again. I'm sad it's so hard to find videos and interviews with him.

[Meehaul]

I've had the opportunity to meet with, and talk to, Mr. Ditko. He's a wonderful guy who doesn't seem to want anything to do with Marvel at the moment. Marvel has allegedly tried to get him to do a page or a panel (including on ASM #600), but he's declined. He's still got the chops, so it's not that, I think he has some serious, fundamental disagreements with Marvel in general and the way heroes are portrayed (including S-M). It's a shame, really, as he'll be 82 this year and deserves credit for creating one of the most iconic costume designs in the history of the artform and in establishing a truly fascinating character. If you go back and read AF 15 and the first 38 issues of ASM, you have the template for what Pete is all about and what made him not merely one of the more interesting characters in comics, but in all fiction, period. The fact that Peter, not his alter ego, generates so much argument as to what "is" or "is not" in character is a testament to the creative genius of Stan & Steve.

If you haven't read Michael Chabon's wonderful Pulitzer Prize winning novel, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, you should. It's a marvelous piece of fiction and allows a little insight into the storied teams of Lee & Ditko, Lee & Kirby, Siegal & Shuster, and Kane & Finger. Ditko & Finger have both gotten kind of screwed, imho. Although Marvel has tried to do right by Ditko in that he gets full co-creator credit in the films and the new cartoons. Romita, Sr., for as great a guy as he is, took Pete in a far different direction (heart throb, soap opera, everyman) than Ditko had him going. The Ditko work was far edgier and more interesting, imho. He was actually trying to "say" something in his work, which is a lot more than most of the stuff that gets produced today. And he actually captured weird facial expressions, angst, anger, fear, determination, like nobody else. If you go to the Library of Congress, in Washington, DC, they actually have the original artwork for AF 15 and ASM 1. Ditko's pencils are AMAZING-much better even than the inked and printed versions. Interestingly enough, Kirby actually did the seminal cover for AF 15, because Stan wanted something more "heroic."

[Spider-ManHero12]

Steve Ditko is the god of SPider-Man, IMO. His art and ROmita Sr.'s art is my favortie of all time. He brought such a great feeling to the Spider-Man books. I mean, Ditko really made Peter look like a teen, etc. Just a god in general. Also, the way he drew the Villians were and sitll are great.

[Joker]

Ditko rules:

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Amazing story, and probably my favorite of all time. Ditko's art speaks for itself.

[Brimay]

Originally Posted by The Bruce

I love Ditko's Spidey. I buy reprints of the same comics again and again. I'm sad it's so hard to find videos and interviews with him.

Neat, i use to buy reprints but now i buy the originals.
Sure they are kind of pricy but worth it, and i buy them at a bad grade so they are cheaper to.
The oldest sm i have is issue 7 second appearence of vulture.

[Brimay]

Originally Posted by Meehaul

I've had the opportunity to meet with, and talk to, Mr. Ditko. He's a wonderful guy who doesn't seem to want anything to do with Marvel at the moment. Marvel has allegedly tried to get him to do a page or a panel (including on ASM #600), but he's declined. He's still got the chops, so it's not that, I think he has some serious, fundamental disagreements with Marvel in general and the way heroes are portrayed (including S-M). It's a shame, really, as he'll be 82 this year and deserves credit for creating one of the most iconic costume designs in the history of the artform and in establishing a truly fascinating character. If you go back and read AF 15 and the first 38 issues of ASM, you have the template for what Pete is all about and what made him not merely one of the more interesting characters in comics, but in all fiction, period. The fact that Peter, not his alter ego, generates so much argument as to what "is" or "is not" in character is a testament to the creative genius of Stan & Steve.

If you haven't read Michael Chabon's wonderful Pulitzer Prize winning novel, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, you should. It's a marvelous piece of fiction and allows a little insight into the storied teams of Lee & Ditko, Lee & Kirby, Siegal & Shuster, and Kane & Finger. Ditko & Finger have both gotten kind of screwed, imho. Although Marvel has tried to do right by Ditko in that he gets full co-creator credit in the films and the new cartoons. Romita, Sr., for as great a guy as he is, took Pete in a far different direction (heart throb, soap opera, everyman) than Ditko had him going. The Ditko work was far edgier and more interesting, imho. He was actually trying to "say" something in his work, which is a lot more than most of the stuff that gets produced today. And he actually captured weird facial expressions, angst, anger, fear, determination, like nobody else. If you go to the Library of Congress, in Washington, DC, they actually have the original artwork for AF 15 and ASM 1. Ditko's pencils are AMAZING-much better even than the inked and printed versions. Interestingly enough, Kirby actually did the seminal cover for AF 15, because Stan wanted something more "heroic."

Nice, thanks for letting me know about the book i'll have to read it someday.


Have you seen this alternative AF 15 ditko did? Looks just as nice if not nicer than kirbys cover.

[Venom 1988]

Eh its too busy

[Meehaul]

The BBC did a wonderful show on Ditko called "In Search of Steve Ditko." The episodes (four parts) are here: http://www.dograt.com/category/carto...-ditko/page/2/

The important one to watch is the last part (4). It really gets into the early vision of Spidey. Amazing stuffs. And in my discussions with Ditko himself, it's clear Spidey went off the rails of his inception pretty early on.

And here's the final three parts: http://www.dograt.com/category/carto...f-steve-ditko/

[Brimay]

Originally Posted by Meehaul

The BBC did a wonderful show on Ditko called "In Search of Steve Ditko." The episodes (four parts) are here: http://www.dograt.com/category/carto...-ditko/page/2/

The important one to watch is the last part (4). It really gets into the early vision of Spidey. Amazing stuffs. And in my discussions with Ditko himself, it's clear Spidey went off the rails of his inception pretty early on.

And here's the final three parts: http://www.dograt.com/category/carto...f-steve-ditko/

great doc, but i have seen it twice.

Wish we get to see steve in it but unfortunately we didin't.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Originally Posted by Brimay

Nice, thanks for letting me know about the book i'll have to read it someday.


Have you seen this alternative AF 15 ditko did? Looks just as nice if not nicer than kirbys cover.

Indeed, I've seen it, and although it's awesome, I perfer the original.

[Meehaul]

Actually, the Ditko cover IS the original. The "final" cover, the kirby cover, was done after Ditko penciled and inked his version. Stan vetoed it.

I wish we could have gotten a Ditko interview on the BBC presentation as well. He's pretty protective of his privacy, though, and lets his art do the talking for him. Just from the perspective of a historian, though, it would be great to get him on the record before he passes into the astral plane, so to speak. Stan's problem is that he says whatever he thinks will please the fans at any given time. He's the consummate sales man, but not so great for providing an accurate historical account of anything.

[Meehaul]

Here's the clip from the Library of Congress showing the original artwork from Amazing Fantasy 15, which is on display: http://www.history.com/content/hidde...legend-is-born
The artwork is pretty amazing. And this was such a marked difference from what others, like Kirby, were doing at the time. You also get to see the original masthead as designed by Dito, as well as Stan "toning down" the famous scene where a car nearly sideswipes Pete and he jumps on the building.

[Brimay]

Originally Posted by Meehaul

Here's the clip from the Library of Congress showing the original artwork from Amazing Fantasy 15, which is on display: http://www.history.com/content/hidde...legend-is-born
The artwork is pretty amazing. And this was such a marked difference from what others, like Kirby, were doing at the time. You also get to see the original masthead as designed by Dito, as well as Stan "toning down" the famous scene where a car nearly sideswipes Pete and he jumps on the building.

Great stuff, havn't seen that before.

May i ask, since im becoming of a comic artist myself, i was wondering does steve draw with a pencil then he or someone else inks it?




Cheers.

[shinlyle]

Love me some Ditko. I flip-flop between Romita and Ditko on my "favorite Spidey artist ever", and it's always tough. Ditko did Spider-Man/Peter Parker as the gangly kid in a costume. He drew him more as the everyman than anyone did.

[Meehaul]

Originally Posted by Brimay

Great stuff, havn't seen that before.

May i ask, since im becoming of a comic artist myself, i was wondering does steve draw with a pencil then he or someone else inks it?

It varied. Ditko inked his own and others pencils and had others ink his pencils. DC, for example, had a particular "style" back in the day where they had one inker ink a bunch of pencilers' work so that their comics could all look similar. I think the advent of the wacom and similar tablet devices (not to mention cost) will drive inking and penciling to be done by the same person. Other artists are WAY more qualified than I to comment on what's going on now days, though.

My problem with Romita and basically everyone else who drew Pete post-Ditko is that they turned him into a handsome heart throb. The cool thing about Ditko is that at a time when everyone looked like they stepped out of a soap opera (ie, beautiful), Ditko inked these weird looking, ugly people. Pete looked like a dweeb, even when he gained greater musculature. Aunt May looked lie she was about to drop dead. Ditko's characters were just more angsty and more interesting. Romita took SM in a Kirby-esque direction where the men were thunder Gods and the women super models. To me, the first big screw up in ASM was to re-make Pete into a hottie and give him wildly attractive women to date. He lost his nerd, weirdo appeal and turned him into something else. He wasn't even an "everyman." He was a genius, nerdy dude with below average looks. He was the stereotypical comic boo reader of the 60's. It wasn't that Pete was an "everyman," it was that ANYONE could become a super hero, it was a random act. JMS killed that, of course, with all the "Other" BS, just like imho Marvel ruined Pete by having him marry a super hot model and live in a nice apartment. To me, that's what killed SM--the slow march away from what made him unique--having the nervous breakdown, letting Venom go, marrying MJ, making a deal with Mephisto, driving the Spider-Mobile, etc. All those things corrupted Pete's character. But that's only MY opinion, of course. It's Marvel's character and Marvel can do what it likes with him. My only hope is that someday, before I die, Marvel retcons the whole friggin' Marvel Universe and returns SM to what made it special in the first place. But, no one cares about my opinion.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Originally Posted by Meehaul

Actually, the Ditko cover IS the original. The "final" cover, the kirby cover, was done after Ditko penciled and inked his version. Stan vetoed it.

Yes, very true, but I call the one we got the original because..well....it's what we got.

[Brimay]

Originally Posted by Meehaul

It varied. Ditko inked his own and others pencils and had others ink his pencils. DC, for example, had a particular "style" back in the day where they had one inker ink a bunch of pencilers' work so that their comics could all look similar. I think the advent of the wacom and similar tablet devices (not to mention cost) will drive inking and penciling to be done by the same person. Other artists are WAY more qualified than I to comment on what's going on now days, though.

My problem with Romita and basically everyone else who drew Pete post-Ditko is that they turned him into a handsome heart throb. The cool thing about Ditko is that at a time when everyone looked like they stepped out of a soap opera (ie, beautiful), Ditko inked these weird looking, ugly people. Pete looked like a dweeb, even when he gained greater musculature. Aunt May looked lie she was about to drop dead. Ditko's characters were just more angsty and more interesting. Romita took SM in a Kirby-esque direction where the men were thunder Gods and the women super models. To me, the first big screw up in ASM was to re-make Pete into a hottie and give him wildly attractive women to date. He lost his nerd, weirdo appeal and turned him into something else. He wasn't even an "everyman." He was a genius, nerdy dude with below average looks. He was the stereotypical comic boo reader of the 60's. It wasn't that Pete was an "everyman," it was that ANYONE could become a super hero, it was a random act. JMS killed that, of course, with all the "Other" BS, just like imho Marvel ruined Pete by having him marry a super hot model and live in a nice apartment. To me, that's what killed SM--the slow march away from what made him unique--having the nervous breakdown, letting Venom go, marrying MJ, making a deal with Mephisto, driving the Spider-Mobile, etc. All those things corrupted Pete's character. But that's only MY opinion, of course. It's Marvel's character and Marvel can do what it likes with him. My only hope is that someday, before I die, Marvel retcons the whole friggin' Marvel Universe and returns SM to what made it special in the first place. But, no one cares about my opinion.

I certainly care about your opinion. I agree with everything you said, but i never really thought that steve's peter was below average, he looked very normal to me.

I stop collecting sm comics after issue 55 cos romitas stuff was just getting boring and dull.

Also i draw spiderman in a very same fashion to steves, maybe if marvel ever gives me a chance i would do a small spiderman run with the original villians, and make it very similar to ditkos.

I'll try to get a pic of some ofmy early covers if you guys would like to see.

[Venom 1988]

Originally Posted by Spider-ManHero12

Yes, very true, but I call the one we got the original because..well....it's what we got.

lol, that doesn't make it the original cover

[david icke]

Originally Posted by Venom 1988

lol, that doesn't make it the original cover

I think what he means by 'because it's what we got', is that it's the one we 'originally' saw.

Yeah, the Ditko Spider-man stories are the best and all the great succeeding Spider-man stories have it's DNA ripe in them(like the 2 part one against Firelord, isn't the panels of spidey checking himslef never to give up very like the Ditko ones posted above from the 'master planner' story).

My first spider-man comics were the Ross andru ones from the late 70s but I also had one of those little full colour Marvel digest books, vol2 which had the Ditko stories from the 2nd vulture story up to the 1st Mysterio, I used to read that book over and over.
It wasn't until they reprinted them all in Marvel Tales in early 80s that I got to read all the Ditko stuff.

I only ever owned one original Ditko issue, his final one, 'A guy named Joe', but I had to sell it one day(along with Daredevil 7, 1st red costume appearance) when I needed the money, big regret.

I would have to say, and I've seen others say this too, that a couple of the late ditko issues give off the feeling that he was tiring of the book. The Meteor Man, 2nd Molton Man and 'a guy named Joe' seemed to be going through the motions of punch fests and formula. This, along with the fact that Ditko apparently wanted the Green Goblin to be a completely unknown person to spider-man when unmasked, probably meant that he moved on when the time was right.
Romita coming onboard injected the comic with a new lease of life that it needed. He did draw the males and females more traditionally, ie flawless features, but Pete in the original ditko issues had no trouble attracting very good looking women like Betty Brant and Liz Allen, I never got the sense that PP had been made 'better looking' per se, as in we the reader may have saw him as more 'good looking' but the characters in the universe saw him just the same way athey did in the Ditko stories. It was just that folk in the books started seeing him in a different light after he got out of high school and became more confident, like Flash Thompson, it wasn't because of PP's 'improved looks' that he treated him differently.
Ditko just had that style of drawing that was not at all like Romita's 'models', didn't mean that PP couldn't be considered good looking.

I can see why Ditko wanted the Goblin to be unknown to PP, more realistic, but I think Stan Lee's idea was better and led to the great GG sagas. after all, most all of his villans were unknown and it was good to have one with a personal connection.
Of course this is now a bit overdone as a concept with all his villans in the movie series having a personal connection.

I'm glad Ditko is getting co-creator credits on the movies etc now, although I recall stan is quite evasive on personally giving him co-creator status on the BBC doc, which made me a little angry.

[Brimay]

Originally Posted by david icke

I think what he means by 'because it's what we got', is that it's the one we 'originally' saw.

Yeah, the Ditko Spider-man stories are the best and all the great succeeding Spider-man stories have it's DNA ripe in them(like the 2 part one against Firelord, isn't the panels of spidey checking himslef never to give up very like the Ditko ones posted above from the 'master planner' story).

My first spider-man comics were the Ross andru ones from the late 70s but I also had one of those little full colour Marvel digest books, vol2 which had the Ditko stories from the 2nd vulture story up to the 1st Mysterio, I used to read that book over and over.
It wasn't until they reprinted them all in Marvel Tales in early 80s that I got to read all the Ditko stuff.

I only ever owned one original Ditko issue, his final one, 'A guy named Joe', but I had to sell it one day(along with Daredevil 7, 1st red costume appearance) when I needed the money, big regret.

I would have to say, and I've seen others say this too, that a couple of the late ditko issues give off the feeling that he was tiring of the book. The Meteor Man, 2nd Molton Man and 'a guy named Joe' seemed to be going through the motions of punch fests and formula. This, along with the fact that Ditko apparently wanted the Green Goblin to be a completely unknown person to spider-man when unmasked, probably meant that he moved on when the time was right.
Romita coming onboard injected the comic with a new lease of life that it needed. He did draw the males and females more traditionally, ie flawless features, but Pete in the original ditko issues had no trouble attracting very good looking women like Betty Brant and Liz Allen, I never got the sense that PP had been made 'better looking' per se, as in we the reader may have saw him as more 'good looking' but the characters in the universe saw him just the same way athey did in the Ditko stories. It was just that folk in the books started seeing him in a different light after he got out of high school and became more confident, like Flash Thompson, it wasn't because of PP's 'improved looks' that he treated him differently.
Ditko just had that style of drawing that was not at all like Romita's 'models', didn't mean that PP couldn't be considered good looking.

I can see why Ditko wanted the Goblin to be unknown to PP, more realistic, but I think Stan Lee's idea was better and led to the great GG sagas. after all, most all of his villans were unknown and it was good to have one with a personal connection.
Of course this is now a bit overdone as a concept with all his villans in the movie series having a personal connection.

I'm glad Ditko is getting co-creator credits on the movies etc now, although I recall stan is quite evasive on personally giving him co-creator status on the BBC doc, which made me a little angry.

To tell you the truth, i loved the meteor story.