Chloe Sullivan

[Doc Ock]

Well I suppose anything I say would be turned against me, but I truly do love everything about the show.

[Webhead2006]

Sure its everyone opinions on what they like and dont like. Heck i enjoy smallville alot. But i do agree there has been many times it has dropped the ball on things. But there has been alot of good too. Plus the show has the advance of looking at all things from superman comics mythos and taking different things out and using them while then putting their own spin on things. Yes i dont like when they have screwed up on stuff like the whole superlana, to the human doomsday thing. But for the many good things the show has done.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Originally Posted by Man of Tomorrow

Honestly, I don't have a problem with changing aspects from the mythos, taking liberties and whatnot as long as they are good changes.


I can honestly say most of the liberties that SV has taken have been 'meh' or really bad.

Ex:

- Lois going to highschool and growing up with Clark since S4, being an older sister figure to him for years in Smallville. No way the glasses and reporter disguise would work now.

- Failsday; Davis Bloome. Turning Doomsday into a human and his horrible arc with Chloe.

- the characterization of Lana for seven seasons; leading to her getting super stength, speed, invulnerability and kryptonite power in her final episode. Having her witch storyline tie with the Fortress crystals.

- The 'fake' Jimmy Olsen

- Chloe's overall central importance in everything in the SV universe. Bossing Clark around for years and now, the league.

- Making Lex into a jealous brother figure to Clark who was born into money; there was potential with this one but it was executed so poorly.

- Kara appearing when Clark is still in Smallville, Supergirl being the same age as Clark. That's why they had to write her off the series in such an abrupt manner. Turning Zor-El into a villian who was lusting after Lara was bizarre too.

- SV's Pete Ross.. another fail

- Meteor freaks.. and the 10 million different and contrived affects of Kryptonite exposure.

- Jor-El (being a bastard) and Clark (being Lana obsessed) being reponsible for Jonathan's life being taken

etc.... the list is too long



I hate this whole Red-Blue Blur/The Blur nonsense too. It's just so incredibly lame.


Anyway, none of this stuff will be in the Superman movie, so I suppose it's all moot.

My main problems with SV Lois was that she was pretty much the women every hero got a turn with. The brother sister thing I was not okay with but understood given that during the time Singer was doing Superman and they had a rule that Lois and Clark could not be together. But the as I said before what gets me is how much of a **** they made her to be. In the comics, movies or even on TV she was never portrayed to be the pillow talk for the whole JL as she is on SV which is sad. Other then that I think SV is a great show if you look at it as an elseworld like how I had to do with Superman Returns which I think is a great movie. The main problems with SV though is when they mess up they really mess up that it over shadows all their good they have done. Which is sad. Although half of the things in SV you can't blame on the producers when the show first started they were suppose to match up to the Superman movie they were going to make before Returns I think McG's movie so how Jor-El is portrayed and all kind of matches up with how Krypton was suppose to be meaning Jor-El was suppose to be the leader of Krypton and tough even though he loved his son.

[Mikelus]

Originally Posted by Ultimate_Superman

Acutally Harley is pretty much like how she was in BTAS just written more for adults and teens. Where she is the Joker's sidekick but is not all evil as well. As I have said the issue with Chloe is that she is pretty much used as the person they can not have so Chloe becomes them. Example first Lois and now Babs Gordon. If Chloe was like Mercy or Harley where she was her own person from start to finish then you are looking at a different case but if you build off of her in the comics or movies then it will be Chloe in name only because she would not be like her TV she would have to morph almost into someone completely different. Which is why I said they way she has been done in Secret Origins is the right way to go or how they were going to use her with Superboy.

Agreed, that would be the best way to go, otherwise they would have to change the mythos too much, which is unnecessary.

[Daybreak_st]

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

Sure its everyone opinions on what they like and dont like. Heck i enjoy smallville alot. But i do agree there has been many times it has dropped the ball on things. But there has been alot of good too. Plus the show has the advance of looking at all things from superman comics mythos and taking different things out and using them while then putting their own spin on things. Yes i dont like when they have screwed up on stuff like the whole superlana, to the human doomsday thing. But for the many good things the show has done.

yeah smallville has its merits. I have all seasons except #8. It's done a great job of visualizing the powers of a modern day superman, i've enjoyed the update to things like heat vision or superhearing, and superspeed, particularly when they show it from clark perspective, ie he's moving at normal speed while the world around him slows down. And they've developed some good characters in lex and lionel. To bad they dropped the ball on so many lame storylines.

[cronosred]

I wouldn't mind a quick scene where young Clark either running to save someone or trying to catch up with Lana accidently runs into Chloe knocking her down, he makes a quick apology about not seeing her and she tells him that he should look into getting some glasses.

[Mikelus]

Originally Posted by Man of Tomorrow

Honestly, I don't have a problem with changing aspects from the mythos, taking liberties and whatnot as long as they are good changes.


I can honestly say most of the liberties that SV has taken have been 'meh' or really bad.

If it is so "bad" and "terrible", who forced you to watch for so long? Don't have better things to do? I stop watching Heroes a long time ago, I don't bash it anymore, is a waste of my precious time.

Of course some things could've been better, I can say that about every single show, even the best ones. Geoff Johns seems to be satisfied with SV, and he's one of the industry's best, so it can't be that bad afterall.

[Gmanofsteel]

Originally Posted by Dizagaox

Given the immense popularity of the character, and DC's official stamp of approval (having bought the rights to the character, and through people like Geoff Johns), should Chloe be a part of the new movie-verse's canon?

This is not a "cast Allison Mack" thread, this is about the character, which would obviously be recast.

In terms of what the character brings to the canon, I think she's more important than Pete or Lana. Chloe is Clark's confidante, both when he is Clark Kent and when he is The Blur, and she recognises Clark's potential and assists where-ever possible. In the comics, Lois doesn't do this until after she learns of his secret identity, and so for many years Clark doesn't have a confidante, only Superman does.

And where-as Clark's parents help develop Clark's moral compass, Chloe goes one step further, and does the things she knows Clark shouldn't do. For example, killing Sebastian (Tess' noisy reporter) after he discovered Clark's secret, seducing Davis Bloom to prevent Doomsday, bringing Green Arrow back from the brink by hiring Roulette, or most recently, killing Tess in the alternative future.

Chloe is prepared to have blood on her hands, so that Superman doesn't. That undying devotion is why I think the character has a place in the canon - no other character can even compare in terms of usefulness, especially during Clark's Year One-era. Does anyone else agree?

I love Smallville, but Chloe is the most annoying and most pointless character ever, she's the one thing on the show I despise.

[Mr. Earle]

Originally Posted by Mikelus

If it is so "bad" and "terrible", who forced you to watch for so long? Don't have better things to do? I stop watching Heroes a long time ago, I don't bash it anymore, is a waste of my precious time.

Of course some things could've been better, I can say that about every single show, even the best ones. Geoff Johns seems to be satisfied with SV, and he's one of the industry's best, so it can't be that bad afterall.

I will admit that i used to watch it for Lana, and when she got ugly and irritating, Chloe started looking a lot better. And then BAM Lois came in!

Also, i had hope that it would get better and i watched all the episodes that i had heard were good, like Green Arrow's origin, the Legion one, the Zatanna one, etc

[Man of Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Mikelus

If it is so "bad" and "terrible", who forced you to watch for so long? Don't have better things to do? I stop watching Heroes a long time ago, I don't bash it anymore, is a waste of my precious time.

Of course some things could've been better, I can say that about every single show, even the best ones. Geoff Johns seems to be satisfied with SV, and he's one of the industry's best, so it can't be that bad afterall.

Who says I hate it? I'm just aware it's mainly crap and watch it in THAT context. At this point, I can't take it seriously but it's decent for what it is and the network that it's on.

I just don't want to see anything from it spill over into the Superman films; that was the whole point of this discussion.

Johns is being payed by the show and works for them, obviously he wouldn't badmouth it. He's pretty much using the show as a platform to show off his Legion and JSA stuff. Very rarely do you have writers from a show badmouthing their own series. Heck, Johns even said the cringeworthy Lana dialogue he wrote in Legion was great and that the Doomsday/Bloomesday arc that TPTB were working on would blow everyone away...

[Man of Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Mr. Earle

Also, i had hope that it would get better and i watched all the episodes that i had heard were good, like Green Arrow's origin

GA's origin? I wouldn't recommend "Toxic," it was laughably bad IMO.

[Mr. Earle]

Yeah it was pretty bad, but they told me it was GA's origin and that it was good so i watched it.

[Daybreak_st]

I wonder if all the people who constantly diss smallville realize how bad the reeve's superman movies really were. I just watched superman 3 last night and S:TM last week. Neither was as good as i remember, both had some seriously cheesy material.

A few things that were solid - dark superman, clark vs dark superman, also superman outthinking his oppenent (the computer), the clark subplot with lana wasn't bad but man has annette grown as an actor or what.

The original movie had plenty of camp though it was pretty fun. The ending resolution is still the dumbest thing ever, spinning the earth backwards to turn back time?! REALLY???! That's the best resolution they could come up witih. Then in Donner's cut of Superman 2 what does supes do...he spins the earh backward to turn back time AGAIN! Come on people! It was cheesy then, it's still cheesy now. For anyone complaining about the quality of smallville, i dare you to go back and watch all four films and compare the cheese factor.

[Daybreak_st]

don't get me wrong, smallville isn't great, my main problem has bad plot lines and character arcs. THis season is really fantastic though, a big departure from the last few years.

And also for the haters, putting on the costume wouldn't make the story any better, watch superman 4 and lois and clark if you don't understand this. Best part of L&C was the character interaction and storylines, that's what smallville has taken. They've combined that with making clark heroic ala the genesis of reeve's superman.

[storyteller]

The purpose of the Chloe Sullivan character was to be a replacement for who Clark would meet. She was originally a Lois Lane type character but once that character became apart of the universe, they needed to alter her. So they made her oracle. Superman doesn't need to go to her. He has Hamilton, Steel, Batman, other no name Scientists, Lois, Jimmy,Perry,.............. Someone said that her future was unsure. Well that's in the show, and only the show should handle it. She didn't make it into the comics because she wouldn't fit into Superman world with having access to beings far beyond some little hacker. Superboy and Supergirl simply do not work when they try to replicate Clarks world into theirs(because it's redundant).

[Mr. Earle]

If i were to place her into the comics canon, or the rebooted movieverse, i'd just make her one of Clark's high school best friends. She doesnt learn about his powers, she's no hacker, no watchtower, etc. She's just... there, part of Clark's gang. It'd be Clark, Lana, Pete and Chloe.

[Daybreak_st]

Since they have just started fleshing out supergirl having a secret identity, ie. Linda Lang. I think if they wanted they could integrate chloe into that world. But they shouldn't force it.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

Since they have just started fleshing out supergirl having a secret identity, ie. Linda Lang. I think if they wanted they could integrate chloe into that world. But they shouldn't force it.

Chloe was suppose to be apart of Conner's world as his Lois or Lana. Either way she was suppose to come between him and Wonder Girl. However when DC killed him off instead of Dick things changed.

[Webhead2006]

Well they could always bring the character in some time later.