Has Batman hurt the genre where costumes are concerned?

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

and the capes in the previous movies looked stiff as all hell

No. They looked like bat wings.

[BlackLantern]

really...I thought they looked super stiff, I think we will see an "ideal" bat costume pretty soon though....got a good feeling about it

[roach]

people were saying that before the suit for TDK was revealed

[BlackLantern]

better than that crap in 'Dead End'.....a ****ing tshirt, give me a break

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

better than that crap in 'Dead End'.....a ****ing tshirt, give me a break

[ChickenScratch]

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

I didn't like the Phantom costume.

I was never a fan of his basic design, I'm getting a little tired of the painted eyelids, & this suit has airbrushed patterns in a movie set in a time before airbrushing was invented.

I like that uniform. It kept true to The Phantom and didn't become a sea of purple, the pattern added a bit of visual interest.

[jmc]

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

This is what I mean. Why should he have to be explained beyond the notion of promoting patriotism? Overjustifying, overexplaining and oversimplifying is what leads to these radical departures.

Because some concepts are just plain silly when you think about it from a non comic fan perspective. The film makers are not catering to us, they have to cater for everyone, and in that case changes are inevitable. You can't really take the characters at face value any more and say 'that's just how it is', not in a post BB/TDK and IM world.

[BlackLantern]

what he said

[E-Man]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

better than that crap in 'Dead End'.....a ****ing tshirt, give me a break

Dead End didn't have a big budget though. It was just a fan film. For all intents and purposes, it was some guys doing a personal story with their own stuff. It was very good in that regard because the budget probably consisted of altered Halloween costumes. They did the best they could with what they had, and what they had wasn't much to begin with.

[roach]

Originally Posted by jmc

Because some concepts are just plain silly when you think about it from a non comic fan perspective. The film makers are not catering to us, they have to cater for everyone, and in that case changes are inevitable. You can't really take the characters at face value any more and say 'that's just how it is', not in a post BB/TDK and IM world.

I think you are underestimating the GA. They will believe a lot more if it is handle seriously and not silly or campy. Yes some changes have to be made but you cannot tell me that the GA will not believe a superhero would dress like a superhero

[Chris Wallace]

Originally Posted by jmc

Because some concepts are just plain silly when you think about it from a non comic fan perspective. The film makers are not catering to us, they have to cater for everyone, and in that case changes are inevitable. You can't really take the characters at face value any more and say 'that's just how it is', not in a post BB/TDK and IM world.

And yet you're arguing that Batman hasn't hurt the genre in the costumes department?

[roach]

I dont see how IM is considered a realistic movie.

[Chris Wallace]

I don't think he's arguing that Iron Man is realistic, rather that the conventional costumes don't fly now & Iron Man is part of the reason.

[roach]

I dont understand this line of thinking. You can see Harry Potter flying on a broom stick playing Quidditch and no one bats an eye. Perseus rides a winged horse, kills medusa and the kraken and no questions the realism of it...but the moment someone want to make a superhero movie all of a sudden the GA has a hard time believe it????

[jmc]

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

And yet you're arguing that Batman hasn't hurt the genre in the costumes department?

I fail to see how justifying why a hero wears what he/she does is hurting anything. As far as I can see Batman (and Iron Man) has only improved the superhero genre by giving reason and logic to the costume situation, it gives greater depth to the overall character as to why someone would go to this extraordinary length to become what they become. Once again though it comes back to a case by case scenario. Some characters don't need much in terms of explanation, like Thor's outfit pretty much speaks for itself and GL's is more or less the corps uniform, pretty easy. But then you get to someone like Cap Am you go 'Why would someone get around fighting in WW2 wearing that?' or Wonder Woman and go 'Why would she wear a swimsuit and stilettos boots when she's from an ancient culture?'. It actually baffles me that Batman is being blamed here for really nothing more than rational thinking.

Originally Posted by roach

I dont see how IM is considered a realistic movie.

I don't recall anyone saying anything of the sort.

[BlackLantern]

Originally Posted by roach

I dont understand this line of thinking. You can see Harry Potter flying on a broom stick playing Quidditch and no one bats an eye. Perseus rides a winged horse, kills medusa and the kraken and no questions the realism of it...but the moment someone want to make a superhero movie all of a sudden the GA has a hard time believe it????

Potter exists in an environment where wizardry is a matter of course, same with Perseus...a superhero is injected into the "ordinary world" so yes, it is an issue

[roach]

Originally Posted by jmc

I fail to see how justifying why a hero wears what he/she does is hurting anything. But then you get to someone like Cap Am you go 'Why would someone get around fighting in WW2 wearing that?' or Wonder Woman and go 'Why would she wear a swimsuit and stilettos boots when she's from an ancient culture?'. It actually baffles me that Batman is being blamed here for really nothing more than rational thinking.

I don't recall anyone saying anything of the sort.

Because now movie makers are coming up with hairbrained ideas to explain the costume away.

Imagine this scenario.....

Red Skull leads his Nazi armies across Europe. Enemy forces flee from the sight of the Skull. Stories spread among the Allies that he can kill with a look. Morale is down. Allied high command are close to losing the war. Its decided that they need to combat this psychological warfare...but who are they gonna use.......Frail Steve Rogers walks into a recruiting office.

In my scenario I have explained the costume and the main enemy without coming up with a reason for the "silly costume"

[BlackLantern]

that makes sense to you and me....but it still wouldn't fly with the GA...part of the reason the translation is harder now is because WW2 media like Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan have depicted ww2 as extremely gritty, grim, and dark

now i think your idea is ok, but the USO direction is where its at and im sorry you dont like it

[roach]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

Potter exists in an environment where wizardry is a matter of course, same with Perseus...a superhero is injected into the "ordinary world" so yes, it is an issue

there lies the problem. It shouldnt be a superhero injected into our world...it should be a semblance of our world...like IM and the Spider-man movies. Case in point the Nolan Batman movies....a superhero injected into the real world. In the realm of the Nolan movies could you believe Superman protects Metropolis???? or Aqua-man Atlantis???

[jmc]

Originally Posted by roach

Because now movie makers are coming up with hairbrained ideas to explain the costume away.

Such as....?

Originally Posted by roach

Imagine this scenario.....

Red Skull leads his Nazi armies across Europe. Enemy forces flee from the sight of the Skull. Stories spread among the Allies that he can kill with a look. Morale is down. Allied high command are close to losing the war. Its decided that they need to combat this psychological warfare...but who are they gonna use.......Frail Steve Rogers walks into a recruiting office.

In my scenario I have explained the costume and the main enemy without coming up with a reason for the ''silly costume''

As someone who knows very little about Cap Am I have no idea what you're talking about.

[roach]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

that makes sense to you and me....but it still wouldn't fly with the GA...part of the reason the translation is harder now is because WW2 media like Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan have depicted ww2 as extremely gritty, grim, and dark

now i think your idea is ok, but the USO direction is where its at and im sorry you dont like it

Do you really think anyone who goes to see Captain America is going to be upset because its not dark and gritty like Band of Brothers or Private Ryan or Inglorious Basterds????

[BlackLantern]

Originally Posted by roach

there lies the problem. It shouldnt be a superhero injected into our world...it should be a semblance of our world...like IM and the Spider-man movies.

but both movies explain why hero is in said costume

Case in point the Nolan Batman movies....a superhero injected into the real world. In the realm of the Nolan movies could you believe Superman protects Metropolis???? or Aqua-man Atlantis???

No...and I don't care for Aquaman anyway


and we're getting off topic here, I think....quality of the film aside, Ghost Rider looked decent

[JAK®]

Originally Posted by jmc

As someone who knows nothing about Cap Am I have no idea what you're talking about.

Captain America wears his costume as a propaganda tool to boost morale.

[BlackLantern]

Originally Posted by roach

Do you really think anyone who goes to see Captain America is going to be upset because its not dark and gritty like Band of Brothers or Private Ryan or Inglorious Basterds????

not upset but maybe off puttting...and its about a year and a half away so lets not flip out about it just yet

[roach]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

but both movies explain why hero is in said costume

really???They explained the spidey suit.I must have missed it.