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Old 07-15-2010, 07:16 PM   #1
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Wall If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storylines

I hope the mod doesn't think this is an SV thread. It is not.

Just making a point about the idea that we can't see Superman from the ground up including Krypton elements.

Is there a difference in a tv show being able to touch on these things but a movie can not?

SV tries to get into Jor-el and what happened on Krypton every now and then. We saw Lara on the show as well.

What would prevent them from showing what happened to Jor-el and Lara on Krypton, then how he was sent to and grew up on earth?

Seems like a waste of a great origin story. It could be modified in a new way and update a 30 year old movie's version.

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Also can someone explain what possible types of Krypton and Smallville related elements they CAN include?
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:31 AM   #2
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

If I'm not mistaken, and please someone feel free to correct me, the seigels were given the rights back to the first issue of action comics. So this basically means that WB has to pay the family in order to use these elements and thats why we're still able to see things in smallville and the comics because I'm sure the fee isn't as much as say, it would be for a movie (which has the potential to have a large profit margin).

The loop holes is how they can get around this stuff, such as design of the character (as long as its different from action comics 1), probably avoiding mentioning there names etc. The bottom line is WB want to own everything so they don't have to pay out and the families want to own it so they can get there share of the money.

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Old 07-18-2010, 01:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

Wouldn't it be insane if the Superman rights end up with Marvel?

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Old 07-18-2010, 03:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsnake86 View Post
If I'm not mistaken, and please someone feel free to correct me, the seigels were given the rights back to the first issue of action comics. So this basically means that WB has to pay the family in order to use these elements and thats why we're still able to see things in smallville and the comics because I'm sure the fee isn't as much as say, it would be for a movie (which has the potential to have a large profit margin).

The loop holes is how they can get around this stuff, such as design of the character (as long as its different from action comics 1), probably avoiding mentioning there names etc. The bottom line is WB want to own everything so they don't have to pay out and the families want to own it so they can get there share of the money.
You think they don't have to worry about the fee on SV but have to worry about it for a movie?

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Old 07-19-2010, 09:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

No where did I say they don't have to worry about the fee, I said that the fee is probably a lot less for comics and tv then it would be for a film. A superman comic using the element in one issue, which probably sell maybe 60,000 copies, isnt going to cost millions of dollars to use those names because they don't even make that.

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Old 07-19-2010, 09:40 AM   #6
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

from my understanding (which i don't really lol), even though they won back some of the rights such as krypton, there's still an ongoing process so i dont think it's finalized. once everything is settled they'll probably come up with a number that is owed to the heirs, but the wb and the lawyers are still trying to get out of paying them. i think they're attempting to do whatever they can to incorporate as much of superman in the media as possible which is why there's going to be a rush on the new superman movie to get it out before 2013 which is when i think they lose the rights. or if its not in production by 2011. it's been a long ongoing struggle between the two parties that still hasn't been completely resolved. i think thats why they're using it in smallville.

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Old 07-19-2010, 01:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

If they meet the deadline then the first film can use these elements right?

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Old 07-21-2010, 06:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

I want Nolan's film having NOTHING to do with Smallville.

That show sucks.

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Old 07-21-2010, 06:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

What does that have to do with the thread? I wouldn't want it like SV either. I have a feeling you didn't get what this is about.

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Old 07-21-2010, 06:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

Oh, I didn't read the thread, haha. I just saw what your headline said and voiced my opinion on Smallville.

Yes, I'm a jerk.

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Old 07-21-2010, 07:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

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Originally Posted by Kevin Roegele View Post
Wouldn't it be insane if the Superman rights end up with Marvel?
Marvel would never buy the rights to Superman. Too expensive (since the family will still own portions of the rights), continuity problems, and they have enough characters as it is. Plus, Marvel wouldn't be able to own the rights to other characters like Darkseid or Brainiac (which are still DC).

Lastly, AND out of respect of their rivals, Marvel wouldn't do it. Just because they're competitive against DC, doesn't mean they actually hate them, you know?

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Old 07-22-2010, 12:50 AM   #12
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

Quote:
Originally Posted by \S/uperman View Post
I hope the mod doesn't think this is an SV thread. It is not.

Just making a point about the idea that we can't see Superman from the ground up including Krypton elements.

Is there a difference in a tv show being able to touch on these things but a movie can not?

SV tries to get into Jor-el and what happened on Krypton every now and then. We saw Lara on the show as well.

What would prevent them from showing what happened to Jor-el and Lara on Krypton, then how he was sent to and grew up on earth?

Seems like a waste of a great origin story. It could be modified in a new way and update a 30 year old movie's version.

___________________________________


Also can someone explain what possible types of Krypton and Smallville related elements they CAN include?
______________________________________

-
The answer to your question is actually very simple. Nolan and his motley crew can use ANYTHING they want in Man of Steel. In other words, there is nothing they can't use. The WB/DC have the Superman copyright until 2013. The Judge instructed the WB that they must start filming by 2011, and from what we've seen, it appears the WB plans to do just that.

Now, the more interesting question here is what happens in 2013 when the Siegel Estate recaptures the copyright to Superman. The key here is that the Siegel Estate is only getting what was in Action Comics #1, not the whole Superman copyright.

Let me clarify. The WB/DC own the copyright on everything they created beyond Action Comics #1. In other words, while the Estate may again own the copyright to the characters in Action Comics #1 (Lois Lane, Clark Kent, Daily Planet, etc.) and some of the setup, the WB/DC own quite a bit, too. All the interpretations, back-story, and development of those characters -- as well as redesigns of the "S" shield and costume -- all of those things would be owned by WB/DC.

What does this mean? Well, it means that Siegel's copyright in Superman is pretty much worthless without the derivative copyright from the WB/DC, and -- arguably -- vice versa. Even if another studio were to take Siegel's copyright, it wouldn't stand a chance to get anything off the ground without paying DC/WB a ton of cash to use its derivative copyrights.

No studio -- not even Disney -- would want to have to go through that legal jungle. Deciphering what each side owns would be a nightmare in legal costs. Even the Siegel Estate is wise enough to know that such an act would be the equivalent of *really* killing Superman.

So what's going to happen? The Siegel Estate will demand more money. The WB/DC will reach a new agreement with them, and the Siegel Estate will get more money (as it rightfully deserves -- hey, truth is Jerry and Joe got screwed here, and lawfully, their heirs are entitled). Superman will stay in the WB/DC's camp, and hopefully, we'll see more of him on the big screen.

This of course is a simplified take on the intricacies. There will be more disputes and it depends on how much the Siegel's lawyer wants to put up a fight. Unfortunately for us, it does seem their lawyer is out for blood. That said, there are clever ways the WB/DC can continue to use Superman after Siegel gets back Action Comics #1. Since I've ranted enough, I'll let another law student take that one on.

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Old 07-22-2010, 12:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

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Originally Posted by Octoberist View Post
Marvel would never buy the rights to Superman. Too expensive (since the family will still own portions of the rights), continuity problems, and they have enough characters as it is. Plus, Marvel wouldn't be able to own the rights to other characters like Darkseid or Brainiac (which are still DC).

Lastly, AND out of respect of their rivals, Marvel wouldn't do it. Just because they're competitive against DC, doesn't mean they actually hate them, you know?
Yup, that's pretty much the way it will be. Fact is even though the Siegel Estate won the case, it wasn't exactly the kind of victory the media played it up to be. Superman is now as much DC's as it is Siegel's and Shuster's. There is so much mythology that DC/WB have added to Superman and NONE of that is owned by the Siegel Estate, even when the copyright reverts back to the Estate.

As I already said, no studio is going to want to touch this; it'd be a royal disaster, trying to figure out who owns what. And truth is, the courts probably wouldn't stand for it. The Siegel Estate has a right to not capitalize on the Superman copyright if it chooses, so the Estate could *kill* Superman if it decides not to license it back to DC/WB. That could happen but it seems HIGHLY unlikely. More likely is the scenario I've already spelled out. Siegels get more money in 2013, lawsuit gets setteled and Superman and DC/WB carry on.

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Old 07-22-2010, 03:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

So did the internet just make the rights into a bigger issue than it was? By that I mean, it is true they must do a film by 2011, but the origin story elements won't actually be affected?

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Old 07-22-2010, 03:47 AM   #15
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

Thanks for your posts btw romeo

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Old 07-22-2010, 10:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

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Originally Posted by \S/uperman View Post
So did the internet just make the rights into a bigger issue than it was? By that I mean, it is true they must do a film by 2011, but the origin story elements won't actually be affected?
Yes, that is correct. For the purpose of the movie in 2012, the WB/DC are not limited in any way re: the Superman copyright. They can use anything they want.

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Old 07-22-2010, 10:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

Quote:
Originally Posted by \S/uperman View Post
I hope the mod doesn't think this is an SV thread. It is not.

Just making a point about the idea that we can't see Superman from the ground up including Krypton elements.

Is there a difference in a tv show being able to touch on these things but a movie can not?

SV tries to get into Jor-el and what happened on Krypton every now and then. We saw Lara on the show as well.

What would prevent them from showing what happened to Jor-el and Lara on Krypton, then how he was sent to and grew up on earth?

Seems like a waste of a great origin story. It could be modified in a new way and update a 30 year old movie's version.

___________________________________


Also can someone explain what possible types of Krypton and Smallville related elements they CAN include?
______________________________________











-
Totally agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsnake86 View Post
If I'm not mistaken, and please someone feel free to correct me, the seigels were given the rights back to the first issue of action comics. So this basically means that WB has to pay the family in order to use these elements and thats why we're still able to see things in smallville and the comics because I'm sure the fee isn't as much as say, it would be for a movie (which has the potential to have a large profit margin).

The loop holes is how they can get around this stuff, such as design of the character (as long as its different from action comics 1), probably avoiding mentioning there names etc. The bottom line is WB want to own everything so they don't have to pay out and the families want to own it so they can get there share of the money.
I hope they do that. They need something to make the viewers realize it's a whole different new franchise unrelated to the Donnerverse.

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Old 07-22-2010, 09:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: If an origin is not possible because of litigation, pls explain Krypton SV storyl

well first off i still say the whole coypright/legal stuff are just a big huge mess i wish wasnt around. But from what i gather, wb/dc comics can use and different things with krypton/smallville life. But cant do other things with them. So i am sure they in this new film will be able to at least touch on krypton and some smallville life elements. They really need to in my book so we can see why this superman film is different from others.

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