how to fix wolverines character

[sabetoonth]

Originally Posted by DarkSovereignty

one thing that i hope they work on his hair. i don't remember it being too bad in origins, but i remember his first scene in x2 when i caught it on FX a few months ago, i cracked up at how ridiculous it looked.it was just so obviously gelled, i don't mind them going for a "wild" look, but please, don't make it LOOK like he just had hair stylists slaving over his melon for an hour.

i kinda chuckle inside everytime i see that scene, its just so BIG and shaped incredibly well lol, i like his Origins hair the best

[NinjaTurtleFan]

They got to play up his animalism. Make him more predatory, primal, unpredictable, caught between man and beast, caught between right and wrong. I liked the animated series because Logan seemed like Mowgli (to use a literary reference) a man caught between two worlds. When he got into fighting Sabretooth in that show, it was like two lions going at each other.

I want to see that more. Less of a crybaby wuss and more of a guy who'll rip, slash, disembowel, render, and dismember guys left to right like in the videogame. I know we won't get an R-rated Wolverine film, but least have him just slaughtering a whole pack of guys. Like it's so fast and brutal, it pushes the PG-13 rating.

[sabetoonth]

i love the fight against the soldiers in X2 becuase he went ape**** on them

[Squidboy]

Originally Posted by danoyse

It also would have been to nice to explain when he changed his name to Logan. That was the first thing my sister asked me after she saw the movie. It was never explained (we knew where it came from, but that had to be confusing for everyone else).

That's something that I don't really get at all. If they had mentioned Victor's father by name, then maybe the audience could've assumed that James took on that name, but that would've also left Victor Creed's name up in the air. I guess they just left it up to the audience to decide how he came up with the name Logan.

Originally Posted by DarkSovereignty

one thing that i hope they work on his hair. i don't remember it being too bad in origins, but i remember his first scene in x2 when i caught it on FX a few months ago, i cracked up at how ridiculous it looked.it was just so obviously gelled, i don't mind them going for a "wild" look, but please, don't make it LOOK like he just had hair stylists slaving over his melon for an hour.

The Origins hair was ridiculous at some points - take the Logan/Sabretooth fight in Stryker's base (right after Victor threatened Silverfox), it's all poofy and all over the place when they both came crashing down from the windows. I'd take his X2 hair any day, as compared to that.

[sniktsnakt]

Simple fix: Take Wolvie away from FOX, and give all the X-Men back to Marvel for a reboot.

They'd do it, and hopefully they'd learn from FOX's mistakes.

[DarkSovereignty]

also, i hope they stop that whole "sticking up the middle claw" gag they have running throughout the show. it was just kind of there the first time, and they kept doing it.

[TheDarkKnight08]

Originally Posted by sniktsnakt

Simple fix: Take Wolvie away from FOX, and give all the X-Men back to Marvel for a reboot.

They'd do it, and hopefully they'd learn from FOX's mistakes.

The way Marvel's going these days, I'm not even sure this is a good idea.

[danoyse]

Originally Posted by Squidboy

That's something that I don't really get at all. If they had mentioned Victor's father by name, then maybe the audience could've assumed that James took on that name, but that would've also left Victor Creed's name up in the air. I guess they just left it up to the audience to decide how he came up with the name Logan.

The made Dog Logan into Victor Creed, which I was OK with (I loved the idea that they were brothers), but created a whole other issue with the Thomas Logan character by causing all this confusion with the names. You can't even get away with saying his name was "James Logan" because even Kayla called him Logan. I don't think his girlfriend would be calling him by his last name.

Oddly enough, they changed James Hudson to Travis Hudson. Guess they didn't need two characters named "James" in the same movie.

The Origins hair was ridiculous at some points - take the Logan/Sabretooth fight in Stryker's base (right after Victor threatened Silverfox), it's all poofy and all over the place when they both came crashing down from the windows. I'd take his X2 hair any day, as compared to that.

It was definitely a little too poofy in Origins. I think it looked best in X1.

[Squidboy]

Originally Posted by danoyse

The made Dog Logan into Victor Creed, which I was OK with (I loved the idea that they were brothers), but created a whole other issue with the Thomas Logan character by causing all this confusion with the names. You can't even get away with saying his name was "James Logan" because even Kayla called him Logan. I don't think his girlfriend would be calling him by his last name.

Oddly enough, they changed James Hudson to Travis Hudson. Guess they didn't need two characters named "James" in the same movie.

It was definitely a little too poofy in Origins. I think it looked best in X1.

When I first saw the 'Brothers' trailer that revealed that Logan and Sabretooth were going to be related in the movie, I was very excited, because their past has been a mystery for all these years and I still don't buy the Jeph Loeb reasoning for why they must always fight, because of ancient animalistic mutants that they evolved from, or whatever. So making Victor take the place of Dog was fine for me, but like you said, the name Logan just came out of nowhere after that point.

I could buy it if his middle name was Logan, because sometimes people do just prefer to be called by a different name -my friend's mother always called her husband by his last name, so I guess it's just a matter of what each person likes to be referred to as, since I never heard of something like that before. It doesn't bother me too much that we get no explanation as to where that name came from, but it really could've been a five minute scene to fix all of that, at most.

[Mr.?]

I don't think Wolverine's as interesting solo. With First Class they should treat it as a reboot and introduce Wolverine in a sequel. Have Wolverine non-formally join the team and start tearing ass up. Make Cyclops the leader (Like he should be) and have Wolverine just not listen to him and do what he feels he needs to do.

[danoyse]

Originally Posted by Squidboy

When I first saw the 'Brothers' trailer that revealed that Logan and Sabretooth were going to be related in the movie, I was very excited, because their past has been a mystery for all these years and I still don't buy the Jeph Loeb reasoning for why they must always fight, because of ancient animalistic mutants that they evolved from, or whatever. So making Victor take the place of Dog was fine for me, but like you said, the name Logan just came out of nowhere after that point.

I could buy it if his middle name was Logan, because sometimes people do just prefer to be called by a different name -my friend's mother always called her husband by his last name, so I guess it's just a matter of what each person likes to be referred to as, since I never heard of something like that before. It doesn't bother me too much that we get no explanation as to where that name came from, but it really could've been a five minute scene to fix all of that, at most.

Yeah, I knew where it came from, so it didn't bother me too much. But it had to be confusing for anyone who didn't know. I love the scene when Rose gives him that name in Origin, and while I can see why there was no need for Rose in the movie, something comparable would been great.

I loved the whole brother angle - much more Jeph Loeb explanation, which I never really liked. And I thought Hugh and Liev had terrific chemistry in the scenes they had together. I'm not a fan of the alternate mind-wipe scene from the DVD (seriously, why on earth would Logan volunteer for anything Stryker was offering at that point?), but I do love the moment when Victor keeps asking if Logan will remember him and wants the whole thing stopped when he learns that he won't. That was great.

[Squidboy]

I required my friend to read Origins before she saw the movie, so she was on the same level with me when the entirety of that six issue book was compressed into a three minute scene. Using that book as a guide, I had to assume that the name Logan was taken from something along the same lines as they were in the book, and that he used it to hide his past and to keep Weapon X from tracking him down too soon. I don't know what others assumed, though.

[Doctor Jones]

Make it a tragic story. So many bad things have happened to Logan. Don't just make him an animal tearing into people and being violent with blood and gore. I mean show that, although don't go overboard with the gore. But show his animalistic side, but have him question humanity with animalism. Victor and Logan don't see eye to eye on life and man. Victor sees them as terrible people who doesn't deserve sympathy or chances. Logan believes otherwise. The war scenes should have done this. Developing their relationship through these scenes shows how different they are in their ideals. The wars also shape their views on man. But it all goes back to their upbringing. Victor's father should be abusive while Logan's father should be loving. Though through the wars, Logan's humanity should be starting to slip. By the time he gets to Vietnam, he has been fighting for so long he has nearly forgotten that war and violence is needless and doesn't serve a purpose. He gets caught up in violence for a while. But Victor should do something, maybe kill a boy defending his mother for Logan to see that what they have been doing is wrong. The only reason they have been fighting is because they feel a sense of belonging and war is the only place where they are needed and can actually do something. As Logan's mother can reject him and Victor with his father.

Make him badass, give him his balls, but it should be an examination as to why he is like that.

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by DarkSovereignty

yeah i felt he was too tame especially in origins. like there was that one scene where he's talking to silver fox and he says that line "im the best there is at what I do, and what I do isn't very nice", i couldn't help but chuckle 'cause he really hadn't done anything to warrant that line. he served the military, thats about it. as a mercenary, he went on one mission and walked out because of the ethical ambiguity behind it, not very nice huh?

The bolded part was one of my biggest problems with Origins (and the fact that it was written pretty poorly).

I tend to agree with Origins (the original 2001 comic) take on Wolverine. He's a good guy that's had a whole ton of crap piled on him in his life, so he's become a very grizzled and hard person, but a good heart lies under all that gristle.

However, Wolverine did go through a period when he was a very bad person. He killed a lot of people. And to be honest, as cool as it was to see Deadpool own a room of people, we needed scenes of Wolverine doing that. We needed to see Wolverine go in, carve up a room of goons and enjoy it. Because THAT's the part of him that he tries to hide later in life. That animal inside him that wants to fight, and LOVES to fight. That's the side of him that he's scared of.

All the lines about "you're not an animal" ect. ect. fell flat in that movie because they didn't do anything to explore that area of Wolverine. He was more of a goody goody in Origins then he was in X1 or X2.

Also, Wolverine: Origins messed up by not going into the horrors Weapon X inflicted upon Logan. They did more then put metal in him. They tortured him physically, but more importantly, they tortured him mentally. They tried to erase his humanity and tried to turn him into an animalistic killing machine. That's another reason why he has to struggle so much against his violent impulses, because of the intense trauma that Weapon X inflicted upon his psyche.

The past Wolverine movie did a lot of damage to the character of Logan. And honestly, I'm hoping that something falls through and Fox drops the series, and then in a decade or so Marvel will get the rights back and finally do Wolverine right.

[x-fan]

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x

The bolded part was one of my biggest problems with Origins (and the fact that it was written pretty poorly).

I tend to agree with Origins (the original 2001 comic) take on Wolverine. He's a good guy that's had a whole ton of crap piled on him in his life, so he's become a very grizzled and hard person, but a good heart lies under all that gristle.

However, Wolverine did go through a period when he was a very bad person. He killed a lot of people. And to be honest, as cool as it was to see Deadpool own a room of people, we needed scenes of Wolverine doing that. We needed to see Wolverine go in, carve up a room of goons and enjoy it. Because THAT's the part of him that he tries to hide later in life. That animal inside him that wants to fight, and LOVES to fight. That's the side of him that he's scared of.

All the lines about "you're not an animal" ect. ect. fell flat in that movie because they didn't do anything to explore that area of Wolverine. He was more of a goody goody in Origins then he was in X1 or X2.

Also, Wolverine: Origins messed up by not going into the horrors Weapon X inflicted upon Logan. They did more then put metal in him. They tortured him physically, but more importantly, they tortured him mentally. They tried to erase his humanity and tried to turn him into an animalistic killing machine. That's another reason why he has to struggle so much against his violent impulses, because of the intense trauma that Weapon X inflicted upon his psyche.

The past Wolverine movie did a lot of damage to the character of Logan. And honestly, I'm hoping that something falls through and Fox drops the series, and then in a decade or so Marvel will get the rights back and finally do Wolverine right.

1000 times I agree, unfortunately if it takes a decade Christian Kane will be to old for the part.

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by x-fan

1000 times I agree, unfortunately if it takes a decade Christian Kane will be to old for the part.

Unfortunately, I think it will be at least that long until we see marvel regain the X-men rights. Fox is still pushing ahead with their X-men movies, which, no matter how hard I try, I just can't find the will to get excited for. Wolverine: Origins was easily the weakest of the three, and I have no faith that they'll be getting any better. I just want them to let it die so we can start over.

The most frustrating aspect though, is that a good portion of the cast was so perfect. Stewart was spot on as Prof X. Jackman was a pretty darn solid Wolverine (they just should have used some camera magic to make him look shorter). Schrieber as Sabertooth was great, McKellen was wonderful as Magneto, Reynolds as Wade Wilson was a fanboy dream, and Marsden looked pretty spot on as Cyclops, he just didn't get a whole lot to do.

I would have loved to see the casts we've gotten in better scripts. And I'm not even saying X1 or X2 were bad movies. They were good, but I think we could have gotten something a little more in tune with the comics and just as good.

[UnionJack]

Originally Posted by sabetoonth

he needs blood and cigars, and alchohol, and ya know, to get violent again

this!

[Excelsior.]

Get rid of Hugh Jackman.

You guys can flame away. I am sick of tall, pretty boy Wolvy.

[x-fan]

Originally Posted by Nuffsaid

Get rid of Hugh Jackman.

You guys can flame away. I am sick of tall, pretty boy Wolvy.

no flames from me, been saying for years that he was too tall, like him he is great in most of the films he makes, but he was mis-cast for the short fire cracker called wolverine.

[UnionJack]

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x

The bolded part was one of my biggest problems with Origins (and the fact that it was written pretty poorly).

I tend to agree with Origins (the original 2001 comic) take on Wolverine. He's a good guy that's had a whole ton of crap piled on him in his life, so he's become a very grizzled and hard person, but a good heart lies under all that gristle.

However, Wolverine did go through a period when he was a very bad person. He killed a lot of people. And to be honest, as cool as it was to see Deadpool own a room of people, we needed scenes of Wolverine doing that. We needed to see Wolverine go in, carve up a room of goons and enjoy it. Because THAT's the part of him that he tries to hide later in life. That animal inside him that wants to fight, and LOVES to fight. That's the side of him that he's scared of.

All the lines about "you're not an animal" ect. ect. fell flat in that movie because they didn't do anything to explore that area of Wolverine. He was more of a goody goody in Origins then he was in X1 or X2.

Also, Wolverine: Origins messed up by not going into the horrors Weapon X inflicted upon Logan. They did more then put metal in him. They tortured him physically, but more importantly, they tortured him mentally. They tried to erase his humanity and tried to turn him into an animalistic killing machine. That's another reason why he has to struggle so much against his violent impulses, because of the intense trauma that Weapon X inflicted upon his psyche.

The past Wolverine movie did a lot of damage to the character of Logan. And honestly, I'm hoping that something falls through and Fox drops the series, and then in a decade or so Marvel will get the rights back and finally do Wolverine right.

I agree with you 10000000000000% but it was Fox who made it and they wanted to make a ton of cash ... from kids, they don't give a crap about the character or his fans they just want families to go, enjoy it, then buy there little brat lots of toys for him to throw away withing a month.

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by UnionJack

I agree with you 10000000000000% but it was Fox who made it and they wanted to make a ton of cash ... from kids, they don't give a crap about the character or his fans they just want families to go, enjoy it, then buy there little brat lots of toys for him to throw away withing a month.

I know, it's very frustrating. And if TDK showed us anything, it's that an intelligent, darker superhero flick can work. We don't have to make Wolverine a hard R (though I would say the character could certainly call for it). A hard pg-13 with a good script would work too.

[UnionJack]

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x

I know, it's very frustrating. And if TDK showed us anything, it's that an intelligent, darker superhero flick can work. We don't have to make Wolverine a hard R (though I would say the character could certainly call for it). A hard pg-13 with a good script would work too.

Urg balls to TDK already, yes it was good but I'm very much over it.
I just think as of now Wolverine is far too watered down to redeem himself to where the fans want to see him, unless the next film is a total 180 and shows his rage rather and tears, which I very much doubt.
It will be another film where Fox shove in as many characters as they can so Marvel can't use them in a good way, probably cast another ****** musician to act poorly, no blood, no rage, no suit, just wife beater and most big soft hairy Wolvie the kiddies can lap up!

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by UnionJack

Urg balls to TDK already, yes it was good but I'm very much over it.
I just think as of now Wolverine is far too watered down to redeem himself to where the fans want to see him, unless the next film is a total 180 and shows his rage rather and tears, which I very much doubt.
It will be another film where Fox shove in as many characters as they can so Marvel can't use them in a good way, probably cast another ****** musician to act poorly, no blood, no rage, no suit, just wife beater and most big soft hairy Wolvie the kiddies can lap up!

I understand the sentiment with TDK, it's gotten it's horn tooted quite a bit. Still, besides that, we also have things like the LOTR movies, again Pg-13 movies that have plenty of violence and were pretty adult in terms of storyline, but did very well at the B.O.

I wouldn't mind an R-rated Wolverine (as long as they don't make the punisher with claws like he's been in recent comics). But no studio is ever going to do that. So I just hope we'll get a well written, dark, Pg-13 movie. That would be fine with me. And you could easily do that. Lack of violence wasn't what hurt Wolverine: Origins. Lack of a good story and understanding of the character was.

[UnionJack]

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x

I understand the sentiment with TDK, it's gotten it's horn tooted quite a bit. Still, besides that, we also have things like the LOTR movies, again Pg-13 movies that have plenty of violence and were pretty adult in terms of storyline, but did very well at the B.O.

I wouldn't mind an R-rated Wolverine (as long as they don't make the punisher with claws like he's been in recent comics). But no studio is ever going to do that. So I just hope we'll get a well written, dark, Pg-13 movie. That would be fine with me. And you could easily do that. Lack of violence wasn't what hurt Wolverine: Origins. Lack of a good story and understanding of the character was.

True that and the addition of crappy characters who wasted good screen time!
If they do go to Japan in W2 then I hope we see the animal side of him and some good fun action, not asking for limps flying around, just if you stab someone it is only logical that some blood will be seen!

I would hope oneday we might get an X-Force film I am loving that comic, and he looks totally bad-ass in that suit.

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by UnionJack

True that and the addition of crappy characters who wasted good screen time!
If they do go to Japan in W2 then I hope we see the animal side of him and some good fun action, not asking for limps flying around, just if you stab someone it is only logical that some blood will be seen!

I would hope oneday we might get an X-Force film I am loving that comic, and he looks totally bad-ass in that suit.

If they do Japan, I really hope they stay true to the original Miller/Claremont 4ish mini. That mini is pretty much the epitome of my favorite wolverine graphic novel. That story is one of the big stories that's responsible for making Wolverine the multi-layered character he is now. It really delved into Wolverine's psyche and battle with his inner animal.