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Old 08-17-2010, 11:07 AM   #51
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Default Re: how to fix wolverines character

I think they could pull off a hard PG-13. We don't need to see blood and guts all around. Because good violence isan't just to see how much blood and guts you throw at the screen every second. It has to be done a certain way. Even though Logan would tear into people, too much blood and guts would get boring and just be overdone. But if LOTR can show Aragorn decapitate four times why not? Kids today can handle violence. I thinkt hey always could. Studios are more worried aout parents. I don't get it. If tv can do it, so can a PG-13 film. I mean kids watch CSI which is alot more violent than most movies today.

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Old 08-17-2010, 08:23 PM   #52
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I know, it's very frustrating. And if TDK showed us anything, it's that an intelligent, darker superhero flick can work. We don't have to make Wolverine a hard R (though I would say the character could certainly call for it). A hard pg-13 with a good script would work too.
Exactly. I've been using TDK as an example for ages about how PG-13 could work for a more mature audience, because an R-rated Wolverine movie just ain't gonna happen anytime soon. They could definitely make a good PG-13 movie out of this and not lose any of the impact of his character.

According to this, Hugh has officially dropped out of another project (which I was really hoping to see, dammit) to begin training for Wolverine 2, which is expected to start shooting early next year.

Since it's going to be the Japan story...maybe some sword-fighting training?

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Old 08-17-2010, 08:33 PM   #53
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Exactly. I've been using TDK as an example for ages about how PG-13 could work for a more mature audience, because an R-rated Wolverine movie just ain't gonna happen anytime soon. They could definitely make a good PG-13 movie out of this and not lose any of the impact of his character.

According to this, Hugh has officially dropped out of another project (which I was really hoping to see, dammit) to begin training for Wolverine 2, which is expected to start shooting early next year.

Since it's going to be the Japan story...maybe some sword-fighting training?
Could be. I hope they stick as close to the original Claremont/Miller four ish mini as possible. I love that story.

It's just hard for me to get excited about a Fox produced X-men product. Origins did a lot of damage to the character, in my opinion more then B&R did to Batman. Now, that might seem like a big statement to make, but this is how I view it.

Batman and Robin was a joke. Everyone realized that, even the general public. It was just flat out bad. Wolverine was, unfortunately, incredibly average. It had speckles of greatness, and speckles of horribleness, but overall it was just very mediocre. It was blah. It didn't take any risks. It dumbed down the character and gave a bad interpretation of what could have been a poignant origin.

But unlike B&R, it wasn't bad enough to get Fox to stop making these movies. It was passable enough for them to feel all right with making more of these mediocre movies and not feel the need to tell a better story.

Now, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have much faith.

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Old 08-17-2010, 11:00 PM   #54
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Default Re: how to fix wolverines character

After Predators i do have faith, now that film rocked, and i do know there are differences, i jsut hope that they do less interfering on this one

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Old 08-17-2010, 11:31 PM   #55
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After Predators i do have faith, now that film rocked, and i do know there are differences, i jsut hope that they do less interfering on this one
I just hope it has better writing. That was my main complaint about Origins. All the cast was pretty solid. Yeah, lots of people rag on Will I Am, but you know what? I thought he was all right. Certainly not glaringly bad like Hayden Christensen in Star Wars.

The problem was largely the script. It was Wolverine's Origin as told by a little kid's picture book. They toned down all the darker aspects and gave us cookie cutter action fare. And they turned Wolverine from an anti-hero to a Hero, but still tried to keep the storyline about the struggle with his inner animal, which doesn't really work when Wolverine was more tame then X1 or X2.

But hopefully the new movie will fix that.

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Old 08-17-2010, 11:47 PM   #56
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Default Re: how to fix wolverines character

I liked Wraith

"Big black coat dont scare me Victor."
"I told ya not to bring up the weight, why'd ya have to go and call him blob?"

I was saddened when they killed him

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Old 08-19-2010, 11:55 AM   #57
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Default Re: how to fix wolverines character

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I just hope it has better writing. That was my main complaint about Origins. All the cast was pretty solid. Yeah, lots of people rag on Will I Am, but you know what? I thought he was all right. Certainly not glaringly bad like Hayden Christensen in Star Wars.

The problem was largely the script. It was Wolverine's Origin as told by a little kid's picture book. They toned down all the darker aspects and gave us cookie cutter action fare. And they turned Wolverine from an anti-hero to a Hero, but still tried to keep the storyline about the struggle with his inner animal, which doesn't really work when Wolverine was more tame then X1 or X2.

But hopefully the new movie will fix that.

I completely agree. The cast got flack before the film was made but I didn't have a problem with the actors. The pace and script were awful and the action was ridiculously bad.

He has been tamed on screen. The way he was in the bar in X-1 is the closest we've come to seeing the actual character come to life. He kept to himself, was dark and scowled at people. Make him mean, with not much to say and trying to keep to himself. I wish the character had more internal monologues than actual lines in the film. I'd rather know what's going on in his head than him joking about "Coo Koo Kachoo".

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Old 08-19-2010, 12:13 PM   #58
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I completely agree. The cast got flack before the film was made but I didn't have a problem with the actors. The pace and script were awful and the action was ridiculously bad.

He has been tamed on screen. The way he was in the bar in X-1 is the closest we've come to seeing the actual character come to life. He kept to himself, was dark and scowled at people. Make him mean, with not much to say and trying to keep to himself. I wish the character had more internal monologues than actual lines in the film. I'd rather know what's going on in his head than him joking about "Coo Koo Kachoo".
lol

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Old 08-24-2010, 04:17 PM   #59
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I just think Wolverine needs a better writer and director, thats what really brought down the movie.

Hugh Jackman IS Wolverine i can't picture anyone as Wolverine except for maybe Gary Sinise.

He was amazing in x1 and x2 he was great as well , though i liked him more in the first one, x3 he was still good but was starting to lighten up.

The one thing id say in defense to why each movie he seemed to become less and less anti hero like because well the characted needed to evolve and i think as the movies progressed Wolverine started to become more of a team player , if he was just the same throughout the movies i think people would have gotten bored of him not to mention i dont think Jackman is the kind of guy who likes to have his charactes evvole and make challenges for him self, just sayin

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Old 08-24-2010, 04:45 PM   #60
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speaking of Wolverine, the closest that I've seen to a Wolverine-type character is.......Rambo!

Recently, I went on a Rambo watching binge and watched all 4 of the films. Never saw the 4th film and was too young to remember the 1st 3 when they came out.

But, as I watched the films, I was struck by how similar the characters of Wolverine and Rambo are. I mean, obviously there are differences, but, imo, you could take the stories of the Rambo films, replace Rambo with Wolverine, and I could see that as a Wolverine comic story or graphic novel.

Especially the 4th film. With both characters, you have a man who has seen ( and been through ) some serious **** in his life. He's haunted and traumatized by it ( except Wolverine may not remember it ).

He's grown cynical of the world and humanity at large. He just wants to be left alone, to live a simple, quiet life ( with Rambo, it's in Thailand, with Wolverine it's Japan ). When someone asks him to get involved with some conflict or problem, he tells them to **** off, not his problem.

But, underneath the cold, gruff exterior, there's a man who does have a heart, who does care. And when he gets involved, he really gets involved. That is, things get bloody, body parts fly, and bad guys die....lol.

The phrase "I'm the best at what I do, and what I do isn't very nice" could be applied to both Rambo and Wolverine. Except, you would believe it with Rambo based on what he does in the films. Whenever there's a sticky situation or dangerous mission, you go to Rambo to get the job done.

When Wolverine says that line in Origins, you don't buy it because.....well....he didn't exactly do much.......lol.

In Rambo IV, when Rambo is preparing to save the missionaries, he says something like "Killing is in my blood. When pushed, killing's as easy as breathing." I'm paraphrasing, but that applies to Wolverine as well.

oh...and Stallone's Rambo, while not being 5'3", is NOT the tallest guy in the movie....

So...yeah.....Rambo was closer to how I'd like to see Wolverine on film than Wolverine ever was in the X films, and especially in Origins.....

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Old 08-25-2010, 11:04 AM   #61
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1) Practical effects always look better than CGI. Wolverine was filled with atrocious CGI.
2) Make Logan kill more than 4 or 5 people in the entirety of the film. You had a chance to make the breakout of the Weapon X facility awesome and you have him streak naked straight to the door and stab 2 guys.
3) Raw anger. I am tired of Logan being a pussycat. He forgot everything at the end of the last film so what does he have to be angry about now? Leaving his jacket in Gambit's plane?
4) Blood...come on, at least have some blood or de-limbing in the next movie. Logan doesn't have to curse and we don't need to see his butt, so put in some more violence to supplement the PG 13 rating...push the boundaries like TDK did.
5) Stop with the hero good guy crap. Make his choices questionable, make him selfish. Logan isn't a villain but he is not a hero. He may do the right thing but his path there is not the path of a hero.

6) DO NOT LET JACKMAN MAKE CHARACTER DECISIONS.

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Old 08-25-2010, 02:23 PM   #62
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BORIGINS sucked...

Sad thing is FIRST CLASS is gonna suck much more...

Damn u FOX, I wont hold my breath for a good WOLVERINE sequel, they'll FAUX it up!

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Old 08-25-2010, 09:00 PM   #63
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Am I the only one in the entire world that thinks Hugh Jackman is STILL wrong for X-men? Too tall? Too nice looking? Not enough of a rough edge? Am I the only one?

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Old 08-25-2010, 09:02 PM   #64
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I just think Wolverine needs a better writer and director, thats what really brought down the movie.

Hugh Jackman IS Wolverine i can't picture anyone as Wolverine except for maybe Gary Sinise.

He was amazing in x1 and x2 he was great as well , though i liked him more in the first one, x3 he was still good but was starting to lighten up.

The one thing id say in defense to why each movie he seemed to become less and less anti hero like because well the characted needed to evolve and i think as the movies progressed Wolverine started to become more of a team player , if he was just the same throughout the movies i think people would have gotten bored of him not to mention i dont think Jackman is the kind of guy who likes to have his charactes evvole and make challenges for him self, just sayin

No. Hugh Jackman is NOT Wolverine

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Old 08-25-2010, 09:28 PM   #65
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Am I the only one in the entire world that thinks Hugh Jackman is STILL wrong for X-men? Too tall? Too nice looking? Not enough of a rough edge? Am I the only one?
no, you're not the only one.

I have nothing against Jackman; I just think he shouldn't have been cast as Wolverine in the 1st place.

IMO, one of the 1st requirements when looking for the Wolverine actor should have been "Height - Short to Average." Y'know, anywhere from 5'3" to 5'8" or 5'9". Even if you went with someone 5'9", you cast the other male leads taller ( like Cyclops ) and you give the impression that Wolverine is shorter than most guys.

You certainly do NOT make him among the TALLEST by casting a 6'3" actor. Look at the group shots of the Weapon X team in Origins. Wolverine is among the tallest! The guys who played Wraith and that guy who can contol electrical stuff are shorter than the rest. THAT should be Wolverine.

And setting the height issue aside, they also didn't get Wolverine's savage, feral personality right. The closest we got were when we first saw him in X1 and some scenes in X2. Other than that, Jackman was too "nice" and "pretty boy" and the way Wolverine was written was entirely too soft.....

And the worst part, imo, is that average person's image of Wolverine is Hugh Jackman! People who are not familiar with the comic, and only know Wolverine through the movies, will never know that Wolverine is supposed to be a short guy with a nasty, violent temper who'll rip you to shreds.....

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Old 08-25-2010, 09:50 PM   #66
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How to fix him? Do this.

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Old 08-26-2010, 07:02 AM   #67
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That would've been as perfect as can be. Even when he's being badass, he can still take a second out to be the responsible dad who sends the kid off to safety.

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Old 08-26-2010, 07:37 PM   #68
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The level to which I don't give a crap about the height thing is just at epic proportions at this point.

I wasn't a reader of the comics when I saw the first movie, I didn't know he was supposed to be shorter, and was able to notice that it was a great performance of a character I knew nothing about going in. It got me to start reading the comics, something I had no interest in before the movie.

And even now, 10 years later, I've read plenty of Wolverine comics and truly love the character outside of the movies...I still don't care. To me, it's a total non-issue and it doesn't affect the portrayal of the character at all.

I don't care that he's good-looking either. (in fact, I enjoy that. you boys have your eye-candy, we can have ours too) ) Again, I don't feel any of that affects the portrayal of the character...and I say that now as someone who reads the comics.

He needs a better damn script, not to be shorter and uglier. That's just nitpicking.

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Old 08-26-2010, 08:37 PM   #69
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Danoyse, what fans want is to see is what the comics has portrayed since 73. Wolverine was designed to be a short, violent, bad tempered little man with a chip on his shoulder, a chip that one gets from being picked on a lot when young and small. I know this cause I grew up short and small, with the picking (lol.) In Logan's case small and sick. it is no different to Wolverine fans to want this than it would be for Superman fans to want a tall muscular good looking man to be Supes. the argument has been used that Superman has to be tall and built because it effects the character. this is no more true than it is for the Wolverine character. Superman's strength and power do not come from his muscle but the power of the yellow sun so why would he big and strong except it being the way he was designed and drawn. We all want a better script and better Character development, but we also want to see what was created on the screen, not that I'm saying you argue the Supes argument just using it as an example. As for Logan being ugly, I don't believe he has to be, I see him looking a lot like Clint Eastwood, most find him good looking, but that would be ruggedly so not pretty. I personally think Hugh looks wise is dead on, he is just to tall for this role, as a wolverine fan that is the way I see it. I personally would love to see someone (like) Christian Kane in the role, because he isn't so short as to be toooo short and not toooo tall, just average in height.

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Old 08-26-2010, 09:20 PM   #70
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The height thing was an annoyance to me, but the bad script and characterization bother me much more. I don't blame Hugh for it either. I wouldn't have minded if they had used camera tricks to make him look shorter (which they could have done) but I don't think Hugh was necessarily miscast. Again, they could have done it with him.

I however, do NOT want to see a 5'3 Wolverine. Yes, he's listed that way in the comics, but he's never drawn that way. I think a 5'7 to 5'9 Wolverine would be best.

Either way though, I wouldn't have minded origins had it included a good script and they still had Hugh be tall. Sure, it would be an annoyance, but if I'm going to pick one thing to fix in this Fox X-men series, it won't be the height. Fix the crappy writing first, the height is just icing on the cake.

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Old 08-26-2010, 09:23 PM   #71
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Danoyse, what fans want is to see is what the comics has portrayed since 73. Wolverine was designed to be a short, violent, bad tempered little man with a chip on his shoulder, a chip that one gets from being picked on a lot when young and small. I know this cause I grew up short and small, with the picking (lol.) In Logan's case small and sick. it is no different to Wolverine fans to want this than it would be for Superman fans to want a tall muscular good looking man to be Supes. the argument has been used that Superman has to be tall and built because it effects the character. this is no more true than it is for the Wolverine character. Superman's strength and power do not come from his muscle but the power of the yellow sun so why would he big and strong except it being the way he was designed and drawn. We all want a better script and better Character development, but we also want to see what was created on the screen, not that I'm saying you argue the Supes argument just using it as an example. As for Logan being ugly, I don't believe he has to be, I see him looking a lot like Clint Eastwood, most find him good looking, but that would be ruggedly so not pretty. I personally think Hugh looks wise is dead on, he is just to tall for this role, as a wolverine fan that is the way I see it. I personally would love to see someone (like) Christian Kane in the role, because he isn't so short as to be toooo short and not toooo tall, just average in height.


And I get that. But at this point...once I hear that argument start up, I stop reading it. To negate an entire performance just over the stupid height issue after all of these years, I think it's just such a moot argument. I'm a huge fan of the character now, and I can go back and watch the movies and still not care that he's too tall.

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Old 08-26-2010, 09:31 PM   #72
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The height thing was an annoyance to me, but the bad script and characterization bother me much more. I don't blame Hugh for it either. I wouldn't have minded if they had used camera tricks to make him look shorter (which they could have done) but I don't think Hugh was necessarily miscast. Again, they could have done it with him.
It's not Hugh's fault he's tall!

He looks even taller in person...and honestly, seeing him up close, you'd never know he was the guy who played Wolverine when he's just looking like a normal person.

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I however, do NOT want to see a 5'3 Wolverine. Yes, he's listed that way in the comics, but he's never drawn that way. I think a 5'7 to 5'9 Wolverine would be best.

Either way though, I wouldn't have minded origins had it included a good script and they still had Hugh be tall. Sure, it would be an annoyance, but if I'm going to pick one thing to fix in this Fox X-men series, it won't be the height. Fix the crappy writing first, the height is just icing on the cake.
Exactly. I just read this quote from an interview with Lauren Shuler Donner about the X-Men series:

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Q: Did you take any lessons from the Wolverine prequel?

Lauren Shuler Donner: Well, we have another Wolverine that we’re going to do, The Wolverine Saga, with Mariko, The Japanese Story, that miniseries. But that we pretty much follow the comic pretty closely, as closely, really closely.
Why are they just figuring that out now?

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Old 08-26-2010, 10:29 PM   #73
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The level to which I don't give a crap about the height thing is just at epic proportions at this point.

I wasn't a reader of the comics when I saw the first movie, I didn't know he was supposed to be shorter, and was able to notice that it was a great performance of a character I knew nothing about going in. It got me to start reading the comics, something I had no interest in before the movie.

And even now, 10 years later, I've read plenty of Wolverine comics and truly love the character outside of the movies...I still don't care. To me, it's a total non-issue and it doesn't affect the portrayal of the character at all.

I don't care that he's good-looking either. (in fact, I enjoy that. you boys have your eye-candy, we can have ours too) ) Again, I don't feel any of that affects the portrayal of the character...and I say that now as someone who reads the comics.

He needs a better damn script, not to be shorter and uglier. That's just nitpicking.
I think you really need to appreciate what the creators of the character did. Just saying you don't give a crap about his height, is disrespecting a CRUCIAL aspect of his character.

Comics are a visual medium. A lot of casting is not about how well you act, but how you LOOK. The great Brando can't do ALL roles, because he may not have looked the part for some roles.

Hugh Jackman is a fine actor. He out-acted Bale in Prestige, in my opinion. But for Wolverine, him being tall is a big deal. He exhudes the wrong aura needed for Wolverine. A MAJOR part of Wolverine's character and what has made him so loved for so long is because he is different. He's not the guy that gets all the girls. He's the outsider, who is violent, short and with a temper. That is the opposite of Jackman. Not matter how hard Hugh tries, and he did in the role, he just can't do what Nicholson or Hoffman could have done in their younger days. Yes, they are much better actors but the role of Wolverine is more suited to them because of their features and their IMAGE.

You need to respect how important the visual image of Wolverine is. It goes hand-in-hand with the performance.

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Old 08-26-2010, 10:31 PM   #74
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Default Re: how to fix wolverines character

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Originally Posted by x-fan View Post
Danoyse, what fans want is to see is what the comics has portrayed since 73. Wolverine was designed to be a short, violent, bad tempered little man with a chip on his shoulder, a chip that one gets from being picked on a lot when young and small. I know this cause I grew up short and small, with the picking (lol.) In Logan's case small and sick. it is no different to Wolverine fans to want this than it would be for Superman fans to want a tall muscular good looking man to be Supes. the argument has been used that Superman has to be tall and built because it effects the character. this is no more true than it is for the Wolverine character. Superman's strength and power do not come from his muscle but the power of the yellow sun so why would he big and strong except it being the way he was designed and drawn. We all want a better script and better Character development, but we also want to see what was created on the screen, not that I'm saying you argue the Supes argument just using it as an example. As for Logan being ugly, I don't believe he has to be, I see him looking a lot like Clint Eastwood, most find him good looking, but that would be ruggedly so not pretty. I personally think Hugh looks wise is dead on, he is just to tall for this role, as a wolverine fan that is the way I see it. I personally would love to see someone (like) Christian Kane in the role, because he isn't so short as to be toooo short and not toooo tall, just average in height.

Great point. I feel that people would be up in arms if someone like Jeremy Renner or Michael Rooker (a good choice for Wolverine) were cast as Superman. They are good actors, that just have the WRONG look.

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Old 08-26-2010, 10:35 PM   #75
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Default Re: how to fix wolverines character

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I think you really need to appreciate what the creators of the character did. Just saying you don't give a crap about his height, is disrespecting a CRUCIAL aspect of his character.

Comics are a visual medium. A lot of casting is not about how well you act, but how you LOOK. The great Brando can't do ALL roles, because he may not have looked the part for some roles.

Hugh Jackman is a fine actor. He out-acted Bale in Prestige, in my opinion. But for Wolverine, him being tall is a big deal. He exhudes the wrong aura needed for Wolverine. A MAJOR part of Wolverine's character and what has made him so loved for so long is because he is different. He's not the guy that gets all the girls. He's the outsider, who is violent, short and with a temper. That is the opposite of Jackman. Not matter how hard Hugh tries, and he did in the role, he just can't do what Nicholson or Hoffman could have done in their younger days. Yes, they are much better actors but the role of Wolverine is more suited to them because of their features and their IMAGE.

You need to respect how important the visual image of Wolverine is. It goes hand-in-hand with the performance.
I respect the fact that he's short in the comics, but it still doesn't matter to me that he's a foot taller in the movies. It's never crossed my mind once while watching them. I don't even consider it a "MAJOR" part of his character, as you say.

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