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Old 10-03-2010, 07:52 PM   #151
TruerToTheCore
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Default Re: Does the movie absolutely have to be based on Man of Steel/post crisis?

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But is that a clear sign that comic books are getting less exposure? Of the big four comic book publishers, they all have many more titles being published monthly than Marvel and DC did back in the 80s, and have all sorts of multi media deals. Plus, Marvel and DC are subsidiaries of two much larger and more prosperous companies, and that wealth does trickle down. Maybe it's not a sign that they're taking what little they can, and more of a sign that they're simply commercially stable enough to support books that sell less than 100 K. Also, remember, even adjusted for inflation, comics are more expensive than they were in the 80s, so they do get more money from 100 K than they did 30 years ago.
To compare the situation of today to the situation thirty years ago just doesn't work. These days comic book are sold directly to comic book shops while back in the day they were given to newsstands who could return the unsold issues. So the comic industry produces the issues that are ordered which means a very very low possibilty of making any loss out of the deals. Which is the ONLY reason why comics survived past the mid-90s, but it's also the reason why sales are so low these days. The average person will not find them, impulse buys are gone. Comic books of today are fanzines.

There is also a little concept called "opportunity costs". The manpower and resources used to make comics could be used for something more profitable.

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Old 10-04-2010, 09:22 AM   #152
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Default Re: Does the movie absolutely have to be based on Man of Steel/post crisis?

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Superman is a character that has been portrayed in so many different ways. I don't particularly like one of those ways, because it is almost the complete opposite to the hero that I do love... more than any other character, at all, ever.

And my perfect character is best describe in two quotes from Lois and Clark (my favourite characterisation of Superman on screen so far).

1. 'Superman is what I can do, Clark is who I am'
2. 'All the things I can do... the powers I have... I've asked myself a thousand times, why? And the only answer I could come up with is: to help. As quickly and decisively as possible. And maybe because of that, I've been a target ... and maybe there are some things I'll never have... but when I can save a life, well... in that instant, I know two things most people never figure out: why I'm here and how I can make a difference.'

This is MY Superman:

Jor-el and Lara send Kal-el off to earth because it was the only way to keep him alive. He happens to be found by two incredibly lovely people. He grows up to be the kind of man who doesn't use his gifts for his own greed or temptations, but to help people who are in trouble. He knows that he is an alien, but has only ever known a human life, and yearns for all the things that humans yearn for. So he knows that no one can know he has 'powers'. So he creates 'Superman'. A disguise. A persona. A story he can hide behind, something that can become a huge media deal, and that people will be so awed with that they will never look at a human man in glasses and suit and consider him looking a bit like Supeman to be anything more than a joke.

Lex, similarly, has also created a persona to hide who he actually is. He has fought for power and success and money, so that he can break every law known to man and get away with it. He relishes in the satisfaction having that power gives him. He's a manipulator. He will shake the hand of a politician, and the man will believe he is a good, respectful and brilliant man... but if he knew the truth, he'd quiver with fear.

Now, I totally accept that it's just one way of doing the story, and one way of enjoying the characters, who are very multi faceted. But it is the way that I wish with all my heart they will do things in the film.

One of the most difficult things is including Jor-el and the Fortress because you add this idea that it's not his choice. And that he's not such a great hero by his own doing. And when you have him spending all his day being this 'fake' person on top of that, it makes him less likeable IMO. It makes him 10 times harder to relate too.



I just much prefer it when he is, personality wise, naturally very human. The only thing that is exceptional about him other than his powers, is that he has all the best HUMAN attributes a guy can have.

That's why I prefer it when he puts on the confident stranger act when he's Superman. When he forces himself to be more commanding, and to be kind of detatched from things - which is difficult for him, because of his natural humanity. But he has to do that to make it so that no one would believe he might be walking around as one of them. That he might have been raised human as a baby.

It just makes more sense to me that way around.

I think you make some excellent points, and the quote in bold has got be one of the best statements by Superman i've ever read. That should be included in the film.

I disagree on one thing however, you mention the inclusion of Jor-el and the Fortress makes it as if becoming Superman isn't a choice. That only happens when they force the idea of "destiny" down our throats as in Smallville and the idea was also emphasized in the films. As if Jor-el planne on sending Kal-el to earth the whole time and has his whole life figured out. The entire idea is really silly. He was simply trying to save his son's life. That's it. If he was so smart to include in one crystal that could form the fortress and possess all the powers as seen in smallville, then he should've been able to save all of krypton, the whole thing is just too exaggerated. If handled that way then it fails, doesn't allow the character to grow organically and forces the idea of "destiny".

The Fortess should simply be a library. Not telling clark what to do but a resources that let's him learn about his kryptonian heritage and allows him to come to terms with his dual hertitage. That doesn't take anything away from the character but adds so many more layers to him. You could do some extremely interesting things with his time in the fortress, kind of like his own private retreat, that allows him to be "kal-el" the son, the scientist, the alien, time when he doesnt' have to be the public eye as mild mannered clark kent or the iconic Superman, but just explore this side of himself that always made him a little lost and lonely before. If handled well it could really enrich his character and again set him apart from any other hero depicted on film.

Additionally i don't want him dressed in the Superman suit in the fortress. Either wear regular clothes (it would visibly be and interesting contrast to and advanced scifi environment, NO CRYSTALS this time please), or let him replicate some other kryptonain clothing.

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Last edited by Daybreak_st; 10-04-2010 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:29 PM   #153
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Default Re: Does the movie absolutely have to be based on Man of Steel/post crisis?

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Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore View Post
To compare the situation of today to the situation thirty years ago just doesn't work. These days comic book are sold directly to comic book shops while back in the day they were given to newsstands who could return the unsold issues. So the comic industry produces the issues that are ordered which means a very very low possibilty of making any loss out of the deals. Which is the ONLY reason why comics survived past the mid-90s, but it's also the reason why sales are so low these days. The average person will not find them, impulse buys are gone. Comic books of today are fanzines.

There is also a little concept called "opportunity costs". The manpower and resources used to make comics could be used for something more profitable.
Agree completely. My first comic buys were at the supermarket while my mother shopped. I'd go to the magazine aisle and read comics and she'd buy me a few. I had seen Batman reruns on TV and Spider-Man cartoons but I watched a lot of action shows and cartoons as a kid, stuff like Tarzan and Ultraman, etc. So whatever TV exposure I had gotten, I only started buying comics because I was able to find them easily. At 4 years old you don't know such a thing as a comic shop exists (in fact at the time there was not one in my hometown).

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Originally Posted by Daybreak_st View Post
I think you make some excellent points, and the quote in bold has got be one of the best statements by Superman i've ever read. That should be included in the film.

I disagree on one thing however, you mention the inclusion of Jor-el and the Fortress makes it as if becoming Superman isn't a choice. That only happens when they force the idea of "destiny" down our throats as in Smallville and the idea was also emphasized in the films. As if Jor-el planne on sending Kal-el to earth the whole time and has his whole life figured out. The entire idea is really silly. He was simply trying to save his son's life. That's it. If he was so smart to include in one crystal that could form the fortress and possess all the powers as seen in smallville, then he should've been able to save all of krypton, the whole thing is just too exaggerated. If handled that way then it fails, doesn't allow the character to grow organically and forces the idea of "destiny".

The Fortess should simply be a library. Not telling clark what to do but a resources that let's him learn about his kryptonian heritage and allows him to come to terms with his dual hertitage. That doesn't take anything away from the character but adds so many more layers to him. You could do some extremely interesting things with his time in the fortress, kind of like his own private retreat, that allows him to be "kal-el" the son, the scientist, the alien, time when he doesnt' have to be the public eye as mild mannered clark kent or the iconic Superman, but just explore this side of himself that always made him a little lost and lonely before. If handled well it could really enrich his character and again set him apart from any other hero depicted on film.

Additionally i don't want him dressed in the Superman suit in the fortress. Either wear regular clothes (it would visibly be and interesting contrast to and advanced scifi environment, NO CRYSTALS this time please), or let him replicate some other kryptonain clothing.
Yeah, I have no interest in Superman being destined...maybe he is but he himself nor Jor-El should never be aware of it. The Guardians of the Universe knew a great champion of justice would come from Krypton one day and they knew he would be the one but even they couldn't forsee him becoming Superman...they thought he would be a Green Lantern. He is his own man and it was Ma and Pa Kent that helped him make his decisions and the direction for his life's work. Obviously he knew from a very young age that he was going to make a difference in the world but the whole destiny mumbo jumbo is a little overdone. As for your Fortress ideas, I like them quite a bit. A love the idea of the FOS as the most awesome clubhouse/hideout ever, and I'd like to see some of the scenes where Superman relaxes there, works on experiments, etc. And yes, I don't like the crystal structure either. Maybe a few sunstone crystals but I like the idea that Superman built it himself...Jor-El doesn't need to do everything for him, he's a big boy. I'd love to see the giant statues of Jor-El and Lara holding Krypton and the giant key, but they've never even done a Batcave with the dinosaur and giant penny for some reason, so not getting my hopes up.


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Old 10-04-2010, 03:04 PM   #154
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Default Re: Does the movie absolutely have to be based on Man of Steel/post crisis?

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Yeah, I have no interest in Superman being destined...maybe he is but he himself nor Jor-El should never be aware of it. The Guardians of the Universe knew a great champion of justice would come from Krypton one day and they knew he would be the one but even they couldn't forsee him becoming Superman...they thought he would be a Green Lantern. He is his own man and it was Ma and Pa Kent that helped him make his decisions and the direction for his life's work. Obviously he knew from a very young age that he was going to make a difference in the world but the whole destiny mumbo jumbo is a little overdone. As for your Fortress ideas, I like them quite a bit. A love the idea of the FOS as the most awesome clubhouse/hideout ever, and I'd like to see some of the scenes where Superman relaxes there, works on experiments, etc. And yes, I don't like the crystal structure either. Maybe a few sunstone crystals but I like the idea that Superman built it himself...Jor-El doesn't need to do everything for him, he's a big boy. I'd love to see the giant statues of Jor-El and Lara holding Krypton and the giant key, but they've never even done a Batcave with the dinosaur and giant penny for some reason, so not getting my hopes up.
Yes agreed. I love the idea of him working on experiments in the fortress. Absolutely loved it's portrayal in All-Star. Again this is something that adds an additional scifi layer to the character that we haven't seen in live action and would serve to separate him from other supberheroes. The giant statues would also be a treat to see in live action. I really don't understand how people can possibly think a character as interesting and diverse as Superman is boring. He has so much potential. And i'd love to see some of the kryptonian look from the recent New Krypton storyline incorporated into any view we get of krypton and the fortress. It should look complex, yet elegant, and alien. A few crystals in a functioning capacity is fine but i hate the crystal fortress it's just this huge waist of space. He uses one room with a console, that's it, but it's this huge structure, what for? It wasn't well thought out and i think it's served it's purpose and it's time to move on with visualizing Kryptonian tech.

If they make it cool and intriguing people won't be able to resist going to see it on the buzz alone. I really hope they bring him back to the top spot he deserves. No other character has the same potential. The only one i can think that would come close in terms of story ideas, superhero mix with scifi is Green lantern, but that's about it.

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Old 10-04-2010, 07:16 PM   #155
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Default Re: Does the movie absolutely have to be based on Man of Steel/post crisis?

I just want to say that yes it should be based on the Man of Steel by John Byrne, or at least have the same feel as that entire run. The Modern Age Superman is by far one of the best characterisations of him I've seen in the comics. It's the most relatable, most discernible and downright most fun. I despise the Neo-Silver Age books that are out today; they claim to be authentic and "best of all ages" but in reality is so alien and out of touch with humanity that he feels like a Super-God than the Man of Tomorrow.

I loved what Bruce Timm did in the animated series, and what the people on Smallville have done with Clark Kent - that's something that should be kept in mind during this reboot.

Also, I'm fairly certain that the story will be more akin to the Modern age - with it's updates on the characters seen in John Byrne's version, not Mark Waid's (which is still more Smallville-esque). If it's anything like BATMAN BEGINS (which was, in fact, inspired partly by Dick Donner's original) then we can expect a lot of Krypton, and a hell lot of Metropolis.

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