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Old 10-05-2010, 10:04 AM   #26
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

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Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post


Let Superman be the champion of the poor and the oppressed. Bring back and play up his sense of social justice. It's all in his history and it was a big part of his original appeal. This current time of great financial suffering and loss of hope is like a second Great Depression-let a modern Superman reflect the pain, anger and suffering and the hope of this time the way he did in the 30's. It's the right angle at the right time. The whole establishment stooge bit that Miller and Byrne pushed in the 80's is killing Superman. It's GOT to GO.

Really great article about the early Superman and Part 1 of an excellent history here:

http://alankistler.squarespace.com/j...an-part-1.html

I'm not saying base the whole movie around this, but make it clear that Superman fights for the people, not the establishment.
Really agree with what you have to say. Superman was literally made for times like these. I think WB is really missing the boat if they don't touch on this aspect of the character.

Besides the establishment stooge angle that needs to removed I would also do away with the idea of Superman being naive. For years this idea was perpetuated and I think I think it started with film makers and writers asking themselves: How can a guy be as idealistic as Superman is today's world? The answer they came up with is: He has to be naive!

I just don't think it makes any kind of logical sense for Superman to be naive. He's a man who can see through walls and hear every conversation. There would be no area inaccessible to him. On an everyday basis Superman would see the worst situations of humanity. Homeless children, corrupt politicians, abusive husbands, terrorists, people on the brink of suicide, intolerance, hunger... it just doesn't make sense that he would be naive to these situations considering he would have more exposure to them than anyone else. There wouldn't be a man alive who understood the human condition better than Superman.

At the heart of making Superman work is still the idea of wish fulfillment. Making him a naive, establishment stooge makes him a character no one would wish to be. If you make him a champion of the people who's sense of compassion is so palpable that you could actually define him that way, (as opposed to being defined as a boyscout) I think it will go a long way towards changing the negative perception some have.

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Old 10-05-2010, 01:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

I don't think the "establishment stooge" portrayal of the character is as prominent and prolific as some people think it is. Frank Miller used it in The Dark Knight Returns, but think about his more recent comic book outings. He spent a few years of the last decade at odds with the President of the United States, Lex Luthor, which culminated in him laying siege to The White House. Kingdom Come showed a Superman who hated what the world had become in his absence. And All Star Superman played up the ideas of "wish fulfillment" and him as "a champion of the people" that have supposedly been forgotten.

And while I agree that Superman shouldn't be "naive", I don't think that his eternal optimism should be sacrificed in order to remove any impression of naivete. Superman is someone who wants to see the best in everyone, even Lex Luthor.

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Old 10-05-2010, 01:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

Though this talk of what Superman was originally intended to be has got me thinking. Superman was first created when we were in the midst of the Great Depression, when people were worn down by the state of the world and left feeling powerless. Given the current recession, perhaps we need him now as we did then.

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Old 10-05-2010, 02:08 PM   #29
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

Less (much less) of this.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU0QU...eature=related

and more (much more) of this.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txSRslPm8so

That's where Superman belongs!

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Old 10-05-2010, 08:40 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

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I don't think the "establishment stooge" portrayal of the character is as prominent and prolific as some people think it is. Frank Miller used it in The Dark Knight Returns, but think about his more recent comic book outings. He spent a few years of the last decade at odds with the President of the United States, Lex Luthor, which culminated in him laying siege to The White House. Kingdom Come showed a Superman who hated what the world had become in his absence. And All Star Superman played up the ideas of "wish fulfillment" and him as "a champion of the people" that have supposedly been forgotten.

And while I agree that Superman shouldn't be "naive", I don't think that his eternal optimism should be sacrificed in order to remove any impression of naivete. Superman is someone who wants to see the best in everyone, even Lex Luthor.
For better or worse I think some stories have been more influential than others. The Dark Knight Returns did wonders for Batman's rep. Not so much for Superman. There are boatloads of good Superman stories from multiple eras that film makers could draw inspiration. So far I don't believe we've seen the influence of stories like All Star Superman. Here's hoping we do.

Also, I don't think anyone is suggesting that Superman lose his idealism or optimism. But if you're only optimistic because you don't know any better that optimism is worthless. If the audience knows you've looked darkness square in the face and you still maintain you're ideals and optimism then it means something.

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Old 10-05-2010, 10:12 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

I feel that Superman should be the regular Joe idealist. You can be noble, value truth and justice, take the old ladies garbage out............but still enjoy an attractive women bending over(but not gazing like a psycho). Dean Cain Superman though I think was the best. He came off as an idealistic but not naive. He's someone you think could play basketball with but not put it past him to cheat just a little. Its actually funny when Superman is actually expected to act even more noble then he himself thinks he would by others(and so he adjusts himself).

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Old 10-05-2010, 10:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

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Really agree with what you have to say. Superman was literally made for times like these. I think WB is really missing the boat if they don't touch on this aspect of the character.

Besides the establishment stooge angle that needs to removed I would also do away with the idea of Superman being naive. For years this idea was perpetuated and I think I think it started with film makers and writers asking themselves: How can a guy be as idealistic as Superman is today's world? The answer they came up with is: He has to be naive!

I just don't think it makes any kind of logical sense for Superman to be naive. He's a man who can see through walls and hear every conversation. There would be no area inaccessible to him. On an everyday basis Superman would see the worst situations of humanity. Homeless children, corrupt politicians, abusive husbands, terrorists, people on the brink of suicide, intolerance, hunger... it just doesn't make sense that he would be naive to these situations considering he would have more exposure to them than anyone else. There wouldn't be a man alive who understood the human condition better than Superman.

At the heart of making Superman work is still the idea of wish fulfillment. Making him a naive, establishment stooge makes him a character no one would wish to be. If you make him a champion of the people who's sense of compassion is so palpable that you could actually define him that way, (as opposed to being defined as a boyscout) I think it will go a long way towards changing the negative perception some have.
Exactly. Superman should not blindly feel that all people are good. What he should feel is that people can improve themselves once they understand that doing the right thing is in their own self-interest. He should be a man of thought and reason. He can't do everything for humanity because if were to die, then humanity would just revert back to it's old ways. "Do good to others and every man can be a Superman." Superman is about heavier issues than just the cops and robbers stuff of most superhero comics and that's why he is so vital.

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Though this talk of what Superman was originally intended to be has got me thinking. Superman was first created when we were in the midst of the Great Depression, when people were worn down by the state of the world and left feeling powerless. Given the current recession, perhaps we need him now as we did then.
We really do. History truly repeats itself.

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Old 10-05-2010, 10:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

Quote:
and more (much more) of this.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txSRslPm8so

That's where Superman belongs!
So you want Superman to be in black & white, have cheap effects, a shoddy 50's costume, slick back hair with no spit curl, be out of shape, & run only 30 minutes a movie?. pass




Steve

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Old 10-05-2010, 10:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

This is interested (and from the beloved/hated Devin Farci)
Quote:
What do you think Goyer's big take on Superman is? I've heard guesses that it will take place in a dystopian future or somesuch.

I've heard some stuff about it, but it's not my story to break. If what I heard is true, the movie will try to define why Superman matters, and why his boy scout ways matter.
http://www.formspring.me/devincf/q/1263072081

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Old 10-05-2010, 11:06 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

I seriously doubt that it's going to be set in a crappy future. If that is true I'd be very disappointed that WB went the "everything must be dark because of TDK's success!" route.

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Old 10-05-2010, 11:07 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

TDK took place in a crappy future?

Oh and public perception will surely change with Visionary Zachy at the helm.

Surely.

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Old 10-05-2010, 11:11 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

^Who the f**k said it did?

I never implied that in anyway so stop being silly.

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Old 10-05-2010, 11:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

If they go with a dystopian setting it could be interesting if they go out on establishing Superman as a symbol of hope for the future. I doubt that's the direction they're going to take though.

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Old 10-05-2010, 11:30 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

If they go with a double post that would be very bad.

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Cyclops is the best superhero in the world. He is, as far as I'm concerned, the Batman. He's been in intensive training since his early teenage years to lead the first-ever mutant rescue and security team. This is a guy who gets up every morning asking himself how he can be better.

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Old 10-06-2010, 12:30 AM   #40
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

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TDK took place in a crappy future?

Oh and public perception will surely change with Visionary Zachy at the helm.

Surely.
TDK took place in a fairly bummer present. Not sure what the tone should be for Superman...I guess it's according to what stage of his career the movie is sat in. If it is at the beginning the I could see Metropolis being run down somewhat...after all Supes is supposed to make it a better place.

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Old 10-06-2010, 07:41 AM   #41
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

Don't read too much into the "dystopian future" bit. That was simply the interviewer saying he'd heard other fans guess it would be set in a dystopian future. The answer doesn't allude to that at all.

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Old 10-06-2010, 07:42 AM   #42
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

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So you want Superman to be in black & white, have cheap effects, a shoddy 50's costume, slick back hair with no spit curl, be out of shape, & run only 30 minutes a movie?. pass




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Old 10-10-2010, 05:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Public Perception of Superman

The Bottomline is, in this day and age, it's hard for the general public to be receptive to Superman, and I also have some reservations about Captain America as well, even though he's not quite as wholesome.

Supes is a goodwill, and yes, perhaps boring character at his heart, and that just doesn't seem to fly nowadays, no pun intended. People like the angst, the tormented dark stuff, and to be honest, that may be more interesting sometimes. But when done right, Superman has a certain quality that can still resonate, that can still uplift and make people feel good leaving the theater.

The story needs to be told on the grandest scale however, I think trying to make him more relatable is a mistake. We should be in awe of him, he is more than we can hope to be, this is why he's necessary. Just make it epic, with tremendous action, and it should be at least more successful than SR (although I did enjoy that on it's own terms)

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