Who Is Composing?

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by captainrogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcFLgkCKi1Q&sns=em
As silly as it sounds, this is the theme that actually pushed me to go see the new Star Trek movie, despite all my misgivings about it beforehand. It just made everything that much more Epic. I would love to see it used in a trailer for cap as well (or a similar theme) I imagine story footage of WWII, Steve getting picked to be part of the project, shots of Erskine, Zola, and pre Skull Schmidt before the moment Steve gets the serum and being told it could be fatal. Cut to black and right around where the music picks back up again(1:30ish in the video) show Cap (somewhat obscured by smoke) bounding across the battlefield, reminiscent of that scene in superman returns where young Clark is leaping across the screen (only, y'know, less exagerrated, but still impressive by human standards). they bunch of teasing action and character shots before the end where they show Skull finding the Cube.movie title. End with the shot of Cap throwing the shield. (or doing something ridiculously impressive like stopping a tank shell)
I'd get goosebumps if that were set to this theme. When I saw it used for Star Trek I got the whole "can't wait to see it now" vibe.

I don't think that score sounds suitable for Cap, at least not for the main theme. The main Cap theme should be something rousing, triumphant and patriotic like Star Trek Voyager or Air Force One. Something memorable and instantly recognisable, and in a more major key. Something with miltary drums you could imagine being played at a military event.

Or how about a sweeping theme like North and South by Bill Conti?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14oYF...eature=related

Or something like Gone With The Wind?

[lixdexia]

i always thought that the score from the 2004 punisher movie would have been good for cap with a little tweaking. make it more up beat and add a hero bit in there, but that trumpet is dead on cap to me

[kedrell]

The composer of Pushier'04's score was actually trying to mimic Enrico Morricone's stuff from many of Sergio Leone's spagetti westerns.

[Mercurius]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

Danny Elfman can create an amazing, non quirky score, when he wants to, he just hasn't done anything of note for a long time. It's like his heart isn't in it anymore.

I would have to say Hans Zimmer, purely because I think he's become the new go to guy for big blockbuster scores, but unlike John Williams, he actually has range. I'm sorry, I know John Williams scored alot of films that are close to our hearts, but he is just so outdated now. He can't create new themes for the life of him (Sure HP was kinda different, but its all the bridging and atmos music that is just repeated over and over again). I think people like him because they just connect him to their childhood films/themes, but he is nowhere near the standard of other composers like Zimmer.

Also, John Ottman would be quite good. He does really good evocative reflective stuff as well as the big, epic strings stuff.

You say Williams, who is a thorough genius, is outdated, and mentions Elfman instead, who has learnt all he knows WITH Williams? Elfman has stopped because the thing was getting repetitive.

John Williams will be outdated when there's no more music in the world. His whole work in the third installment of Harry Potter is incredible, dealing with Elizabethan songs reinvented, and the imaginative music for "Double Trouble" is remarkable.

Limited in range?

Williams is part of an incredibly selected group of composers beyond "range": Nino Rota, Angelo Badalamenti, Ennio Morricone and very very few others.

Zimmer is very good one (specially for the memorable score for LOTR), but he is nowhere to be found among the really great ones.

[DarkSovereignty]

^here here, williams while recognizable, is one the most versatile composers semi-working today, i haven't truely enjoyed an elfman theme since men in black, thats the only one i can actually remember.

[Mr.LethalWeapon]

Originally Posted by Mercurius

Zimmer is very good one (specially for the memorable score for LOTR), but he is nowhere to be found among the really great ones.

I agree with what you've said, save for one thing...

...Howard Shore scored the Lord Of The Rings trilogy. He could do a good job with Captain America.

[Mercurius]

Originally Posted by Mr.LethalWeapon

I agree with what you've said, save for one thing...

...Howard Shore scored the Lord Of The Rings trilogy. He could do a good job with Captain America.

We agree, in fact.

I find Zimmer's work really really good. I don't even know IF Captain America deserves such a good composer, Dark Knight level.

Yeah: got Zimmer & Shore mixed (and Shore is also a very nice composer).

I was just making a scale in which there are some other composers coming in the first place, the Olympus of cinema scores.

[wobbly]

I like both Zimmer and Shore's work. Elfman has done some great work too, though I find too many of his themes to be a little discordant and somewhat forgettable.

But John Williams....That man is the ####ing master.

I don't think there is anyone alive to compare with him for creating the most recognisable and glorious themes in movies. Morricone is also a true great ('The Mission' is a masterpiece for me), but I'd still put Williams as Number 1.

[Spider-Vader]

I don't know what you're talking about. The SW prequels had some pretty memorable songs that sound like nothing else he's done. Specifically, 'Duel of Fates', 'Battle of the Heroes' & General Grievous's theme.
'

[Wolvieboy17]

Originally Posted by Mercurius

You say Williams, who is a thorough genius, is outdated, and mentions Elfman instead, who has learnt all he knows WITH Williams? Elfman has stopped because the thing was getting repetitive.

John Williams will be outdated when there's no more music in the world. His whole work in the third installment of Harry Potter is incredible, dealing with Elizabethan songs reinvented, and the imaginative music for "Double Trouble" is remarkable.

Limited in range?

Williams is part of an incredibly selected group of composers beyond "range": Nino Rota, Angelo Badalamenti, Ennio Morricone and very very few others.

Zimmer is very good one (specially for the memorable score for LOTR), but he is nowhere to be found among the really great ones.

I never said he wasn't talented, just that I didn't find any of his recent stuff particularly inspiring. With the exception of Harry Potter, you have to admit that your love and admiration for him is primarily from his association with beloved films, which he was great for at the time.

I do think he's outdated now, not due to any failure on his part, but primarily because Hollywood is in a different place now. Movie's typically don't seem to have a 'theme' now, so to speak. It's not like the old days where you have big opening credits with a main, recognisable theme anymore. Instead, music themes these days are mainly divided to run along story themes, character etc.

Look at TDK score. Theres no 'Batman' theme, so to speak, but there are musical elements that you associate with certain characters, like the synth/drums with Joker or the 'Mollossus' music whenever Batman starts fighting.

Sure John Williams does great, epic main themes, or battle music, but in my opinion these days a great score is so much more than that, and I definitely think there are better composers than him when it comes to evoking any emotion from the audience, or creating atmosphere.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

I never said he wasn't talented, just that I didn't find any of his recent stuff particularly inspiring. With the exception of Harry Potter, you have to admit that your love and admiration for him is primarily from his association with beloved films, which he was great for at the time.

I do think he's outdated now, not due to any failure on his part, but primarily because Hollywood is in a different place now. Movie's typically don't seem to have a 'theme' now, so to speak. It's not like the old days where you have big opening credits with a main, recognisable theme anymore. Instead, music themes these days are mainly divided to run along story themes, character etc.

Look at TDK score. Theres no 'Batman' theme, so to speak, but there are musical elements that you associate with certain characters, like the synth/drums with Joker or the 'Mollossus' music whenever Batman starts fighting.

Sure John Williams does great, epic main themes, or battle music, but in my opinion these days a great score is so much more than that, and I definitely think there are better composers than him when it comes to evoking any emotion from the audience, or creating atmosphere.

Maybe it's time to bring back the opening movie theme. A good opening theme never hurt a movie and in fact enhances the film. Besides, Cap is set in the 1940s, so it can be a throwback to that era when there were epic, sweeping scores. We should have something that sounds like a battle hymn or even like Indiana Jones.

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by Spider-Vader

I don't know what you're talking about. The SW prequels had some pretty memorable songs that sound like nothing else he's done. Specifically, 'Duel of Fates', 'Battle of the Heroes' & General Grievous's theme.
'

Who is that directed at?

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, that could work. To be honest, one of the movies I enjoyed John Williams score the most in was Superman Returns. I know it was a lame movie, but there you had the great epic John Williams Superman theme combined with John Ottmans more melancholy subtle character moments. It's those quiet, character developing moments that I enjoy the most in a film score. I never thought John Williams was as good at that as he was with the epic stuff.

Thats what i'd want with Cap, a nice mix of epic and contemplative. A composer who isn't afraid of minor chords would be good.

[Elevator Man]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

Danny Elfman can create an amazing, non quirky score, when he wants to, he just hasn't done anything of note for a long time. It's like his heart isn't in it anymore.

I would have to say Hans Zimmer, purely because I think he's become the new go to guy for big blockbuster scores, but unlike John Williams, he actually has range. I'm sorry, I know John Williams scored alot of films that are close to our hearts, but he is just so outdated now. He can't create new themes for the life of him (Sure HP was kinda different, but its all the bridging and atmos music that is just repeated over and over again). I think people like him because they just connect him to their childhood films/themes, but he is nowhere near the standard of other composers like Zimmer.

Also, John Ottman would be quite good. He does really good evocative reflective stuff as well as the big, epic strings stuff.

Actually Elfman has done some great scores in the past decade. Planet Of the Apes (2001), Spiderman 1 & 2, Red Dragon, Hulk, Big Fish, Wanted, Hellboy II, Milk, Wolfman , and Alice to name a few. "Alice's theme" from Alice in Wonderland and his concert Serenada Schizophrana proves to me that his heart is still in his music . Elfman has evolved over the years. He writes more dense now than he ever has. His music requires your attention. It doesn't shove the themes in your face like Batman, Superman, Star Trek, Indy, Star Wars etc. would. So people need to get over it. The themes and motifs are there just clean out your ears and pay attention. Not everything needs to be hummable.

Zimmer is a joke. Just like that comment about Zimmer having range, but Williams doesn't ? LOL. The guy probably doesn't even write half his music. He still hasn't found a score that could top Gladiator. Hannibal, The Davinci Code and Angels & Demons are all good but have nothing on Gladiator. Don't get me started on his Batman scores. I hope Marvel and Johnston stay away from Zimmer and his cronies and vice versa.

I don't connect with Williams b/c of my childhood. I connect with Williams because he always seems to write good music even if it doesn't stack up with his 70s, 80s, and early 90s scores. When Williams is at his worse he still makes his peers pale in comparison to him. 2005 was a very good and versatile year for Williams with Star Wars Ep.III, War of the Worlds, Memoirs of a Geisha, and Munich. He proved that he still got it after all those years. He also should've won the oscar that year one of those scores. HPPOA was also a very mature as well as memorable score compare to the first two scores and proved that he had more to the table to bring for the franchise. Indy 4 I blame on Speilberg and Lucas b/c they didn't deliver a movie worthy to Williams' talents therefore the score lacked something the other Indy scores had. Eventhough I don't think his score is nearly as bad as fans think it is. It's Williams good not Williams great.

I'm tired of Ottman doing superhero movies. I think he's said what he had to say about superheroes as far as bright, light hearted, patriotic, legendary superheroes go. It doesn't get any bigger with Superman. Now if he scored a darker superhero that's another story.

[Paste Pot Pete]

John Williams never missed a beat. The prequel trilogy had godly scores. "Across the Stars" is one of the top pieces of his career.

[Wolvieboy17]

I'm sorry dude, but Zimmer's Inception score was amazing, and like nothing else he's done before.

And I haven't heard Williams Geisha or Munich scores. I'll check them out.

I'm tired of Ottman doing superhero movies. I think he's said what he had to say about superheroes as far as bright, light hearted, patriotic, legendary superheroes go. It doesn't get any bigger with Superman. Now if he scored a darker superhero that's another story.

Well I still think John Ottmans X2 score is one of the best superhero scores out there. One of my favourites anyway. :P

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by Elevator Man

Actually Elfman has done some great scores in the past decade. Planet Of the Apes (2001), Spiderman 1 & 2, Red Dragon, Hulk, Big Fish, Wanted, Hellboy II, Milk, Wolfman , and Alice to name a few. "Alice's theme" from Alice in Wonderland and his concert Serenada Schizophrana proves to me that his heart is still in his music . Elfman has evolved over the years. He writes more dense now than he ever has. His music requires your attention. It doesn't shove the themes in your face like Batman, Superman, Star Trek, Indy, Star Wars etc. would. So people need to get over it. The themes and motifs are there just clean out your ears and pay attention. Not everything needs to be hummable.

I don't disagree with that but for I think for most people (myself among them as I don't mind admitting I am not a connoisseur when it comes to this stuff) the score is not something they want to have to think much about when watching a movie, especially a 'blockbuster' action type film. The music is something that elevates scenes and enhances the film experience rather then being it's own beast you have to need to think about much to truly appreciate.

For a movie like Cap (and Superhero movies in general) I would personally prefer the more bombastic memorable (or hummable if you like) approach of Williams than a dense one by Elfman every time.

[Excelsior.]

All this Williams talk is useless because he won't be scoring the film.


And while I agree Zimmer was stale last decade. His last two scores, Sherlock Holmes and Inception, have been very unique and new territory for him.

Both of those are legitimately great and fresh (for Zimmer) works.

[kedrell]

All I can remember from Sherlock Holmes was the end song "Rocky Road from/to Dublin" cause it was really good. But that wasn't Zimmer but some Irish band of singers.

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, I loved Zimmers Sherlock score. In fact, the theme from Stephen Moffat's 'Sherlock' seems very similar to it too, they were clearly inspired.

[Sawyer]

Giacchino.

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, I could handle Giacchino.

[chiefchirpa]

One of Giacchino's earliest works was making music for a WW2 computer game, Medal of Honor.

So Captain America is so fitting for him.

[Elevator Man]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

I'm sorry dude, but Zimmer's Inception score was amazing, and like nothing else he's done before.

And I haven't heard Williams Geisha or Munich scores. I'll check them out.



Well I still think John Ottmans X2 score is one of the best superhero scores out there. One of my favourites anyway. :P

I never said I didn't appreciate what Ottman did with the genre. I think X2 really fit Singer's take on the characters. Ottman's Superman Returns is very underrated. He really stepped up writing that score IMO. He stepped up so much that I don't think he could bring much to Cap. I mean how can you top writing Supes. He filled Williams shoes well IMO.

Inception's score is only good b/c of the movie it's with. Like every other score Zimmer bangs out for Nolan. Also Inception doesn't prove that he can score Cap.

[Doctor Jones]

Yeah, I forgot he scored Medal of Honor, which had a terrific score.

And Zimmer's "The Last Samurai" soundtrack was incredible.