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Old 11-12-2010, 05:24 PM   #501
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Default Re: Where does Iron Man 2 stand among other superhero sequels?

I'm surprised he didn't say "Hammer time!" when he took the stage at the expo.

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Old 11-14-2010, 11:26 PM   #502
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I'm surprised he didn't say "Hammer time!" when he took the stage at the expo.
haha I'm not sure if I would have HATED this if he did it at that point in the film. In fact, I think I expected it haha

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Old 11-15-2010, 07:22 AM   #503
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Default Re: Where does Iron Man 2 stand among other superhero sequels?

In fairness, how annoying could it have been as compared to "I need a phat beat to beat my buddy's ass to"?

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Old 11-15-2010, 09:45 AM   #504
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Firstly, thanks for the welcome : )

I think both actors did a good job with the role. I liked them both. I think it was the writing in Iron Man 2 that brought the second Rhodey down a little, for me anyway. In my opinion, Rhodey in the first film felt a little more natural.

I agree with your comments about Rhodey flying the suit. I think it is his experience as a pilot that helped him get a feel for the suit easily enough. Whether Tony had him take it for a test drive between 1 and 2, that would be cool with me.
Agreed. I feel that Rhodey is the second film is written to be more annoyed at Tony.

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Old 11-15-2010, 09:46 AM   #505
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In fairness, how annoying could it have been as compared to "I need a phat beat to beat my buddy's ass to"?
I thought that was funny. I feel that most of Tony's humor in the film is within character so I never had a problem with it.

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Old 11-15-2010, 10:55 AM   #506
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Default Re: Where does Iron Man 2 stand among other superhero sequels?

Asking for fight music just felt borderline "Schumacher-ish".

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Old 11-15-2010, 11:43 AM   #507
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Default Re: Where does Iron Man 2 stand among other superhero sequels?

But it worked for the character. If Bruce Wayne asked for fight music while beating Robin's ass that would be elicit an from me

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Old 11-15-2010, 12:39 PM   #508
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Default Re: Where does Iron Man 2 stand among other superhero sequels?

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IM2 felt like a third act; overcrowded, overblown and underdeveloped. It had great moments but never really lived up to its potential. Had they focued more on it being an Iron Man movie and less on promoting Avengers we could have gotten so much more.
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IM3 needs to only focus on Iron Man and Mandarin. No War Machine(in all honesty no WM period) taking up the villains screen time, no Avengers, no setting up Pepper to become Rescue and take away from the villain like they did in part 2, and cut back on the jokes.

IM2 didn't suffer from too many villains, it suffered from too many heroes that didn't belong in the movie.

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Old 11-15-2010, 12:49 PM   #509
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Honestly, I think they will cut back on the jokes in Iron Man 3. Mandarin's coming, and I don't think (if done right) there's gonna be much time for joking when Stark goes up against his archenemy.

Btw, when are the Iron Man 3 forums going up? They had the TDKRises forums up not too long after TDK was released.

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Old 11-15-2010, 03:42 PM   #510
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Default Re: Where does Iron Man 2 stand among other superhero sequels?

Under SM2, and TDK, on par with batman returns, above all others except SM3 [which I liked].

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Old 11-16-2010, 03:31 PM   #511
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In fairness, how annoying could it have been as compared to "I need a phat beat to beat my buddy's ass to"?
See that's what I mean about what was wrong with this movie.

Instead of joking around and having a play fight, Whiplash should've crashed the party and put Tony and guests in danger. There was never any danger, everyone knew Tony and Rhodey weren't really going to hurt each other.

Instead of "Oh s*** Whiplash is here tearing stuff up, hurting people and there's nothing Iron Man can do about it because he's drunk!" We get "lmao! Tony and Rhodey really messed up the house, and oh by the way what was the name of the song that was playing when they went crashing through the wall."

Then at the end of the day Tony never learned any kind of lesson for his actions.

Like I've said many times, War Machine was the biggest problem this movie had.

This could've been up there with the Dark Knight, SM2s of the world, instead it's right under them. (still better than most cbm out there)

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Old 11-16-2010, 03:33 PM   #512
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See that's what I mean about what was wrong with this movie.

Instead of joking around and having a play fight, Whiplash should've crashed the party and put Tony and guests in danger. There was never any danger, everyone knew Tony and Rhodey weren't really going to hurt each other.

Instead of "Oh s*** Whiplash is here tearing stuff up, hurting people and there's nothing Iron Man can do about it because he's drunk!" We get "lmao! Tony and Rhodey really messed up the house, and oh by the way what was the name of the song that was playing when they went crashing through the wall."

Then at the end of the day Tony never learned any kind of lesson for his actions.

Like I've said many times, War Machine was the biggest problem this movie had.

This could've been up there with the Dark Knight, SM2s of the world, instead it's right under them. (still better than most cbm out there)
I didn't mind the fight scene, but that idea does sound a hell of a lot better.

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Old 11-17-2010, 11:24 PM   #513
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That fight scene didn't have the sort of menace I thought it'd have, just some stupidity. It's like Iron_Stark said.

Now if Tony had gotten people hurt in his drunken state and just pushed the boundaries of how low he could sink in that suit, it could have been a better scene and maybe even warranted Rhodey donning another suit to "stop" him. That's what I was expecting, but like a lot of the times in this film, it just feels like they're pulling back their punches.

With what we got, I would have preferred the scenario Iron_Stark suggested.


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Old 11-20-2010, 12:41 PM   #514
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Typically with these films the sequel trumps the original, largely because the first in the series is just weaker, using a lot of time for set-up. I will say in this case though Iron Man one was such a great movie that, even with it's anti-climatic ending, it was tough to top. Jon did a very good job but the story simply wasn't better. Stark's character just did not have the arc that he did on the first flick. But Iron Man 2 was still a super solid sequel.

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Old 11-20-2010, 04:09 PM   #515
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Missed opportunities, yes. Vanko's vendetta against Tony seemed stupid, especially when he KNEW Tony was dying slowly anyway. Hammer became a moron from the moment he freed Danko. At what point did Vanko in any way show a willingness to comply with Hammer's wishes and not pursue his own agenda? This was the worst team-up ever. As for War Machine, another missed opportunity. His introduction wasn't handled well. He wasn't portrayed effectively. Much as I didn't think so initially, Howard was a MUCH better Rhodey than Cheadle. The movie as a whole just felt thrown together. We were promised so much and it just didn't deliver. I tend to think that if Avengers weren't already in the pipeline, we would've gotten the sequel we deserved.
It really just was a weak script, made better by the actors in it. I think this movie was a case of the actors rising above the material. For as much crap as people are giving Cheadle, stop and think what the guy had to work with. It wasn't like the script gave him a whole lot.

And I agree about Vanko and Hammer. It was just very frustrating. Hammer more so to me, because, like I said, in his first monologue, I was going "oh, this guy might be able to give Tony a run for his money." I mean, we obviously knew that he wasn't at Tony's level, but a man smart enough to be dangerous if Tony underestimated him.

Instead we got him as an incompetent comedic relief. Which can be fun sometimes, but I think it's far more interesting for the villain to be a real threat. I mean, was anybody honestly worried when Hammer threatened Pepper at the end? It had as much menace as a small child getting angry at their parents.

In terms of where the sequel stands, I still don't think it's all that bad. Honestly, the first IM while I do think was written better, wasn't all that great of a script either. But at that time, RDJ performance was new, so it knocked the socks off everyone. This time around, we got a slightly worse script (but not all that much) and we knew what we were going to get, so people weren't as warm to it.

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Old 11-20-2010, 05:27 PM   #516
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It really just was a weak script, made better by the actors in it. I think this movie was a case of the actors rising above the material. For as much crap as people are giving Cheadle, stop and think what the guy had to work with. It wasn't like the script gave him a whole lot.

And I agree about Vanko and Hammer. It was just very frustrating. Hammer more so to me, because, like I said, in his first monologue, I was going "oh, this guy might be able to give Tony a run for his money." I mean, we obviously knew that he wasn't at Tony's level, but a man smart enough to be dangerous if Tony underestimated him.

Instead we got him as an incompetent comedic relief. Which can be fun sometimes, but I think it's far more interesting for the villain to be a real threat. I mean, was anybody honestly worried when Hammer threatened Pepper at the end? It had as much menace as a small child getting angry at their parents.

In terms of where the sequel stands, I still don't think it's all that bad. Honestly, the first IM while I do think was written better, wasn't all that great of a script either. But at that time, RDJ performance was new, so it knocked the socks off everyone. This time around, we got a slightly worse script (but not all that much) and we knew what we were going to get, so people weren't as warm to it.
I agree, and I think the performances along with Favreau's directing saved this film.

I don't Favreau gets enough credit.

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Old 11-21-2010, 04:00 PM   #517
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Default Re: Where does Iron Man 2 stand among other superhero sequels?

It is the law of diminishing returns at play here. Witty banter was great in the first film, but was not gonna fly in a sequel without some added meat.

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Old 11-21-2010, 10:59 PM   #518
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^Exactly. Agreed.

They pulled their dramatic punches (again) when they should have hit much harder than the first one. They dealt with some meatier elements (he was dying, a crazy revenge plot) but they didn't let themselves or us delve into it. Thus, they pulled their punches.

What annoys me as a filmmaker is, they have fantastic actors with lots of range at your disposal, why aren't they using them?!

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Old 11-24-2010, 07:24 AM   #519
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Everything that everybody is saying here-even remarks made in defense of the film-has merit. This is a first for me. You know what else is a first? I just realized this film series is two installments in and we have yet to see a truly noteworthy villain. Just some idiots stealing Stark's tech and "improving" on it, with disastrous results. Stane was decent but he isn't a heavyweight. When did they kill him off in the comics, anyway? The 80's? Where's the Joker/Doc Ock/Magneto calibur villains, huh?

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Old 11-24-2010, 10:58 AM   #520
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Missed opportunities, yes. Vanko's vendetta against Tony seemed stupid, especially when he KNEW Tony was dying slowly anyway. Hammer became a moron from the moment he freed Danko. At what point did Vanko in any way show a willingness to comply with Hammer's wishes and not pursue his own agenda? This was the worst team-up ever. As for War Machine, another missed opportunity. His introduction wasn't handled well. He wasn't portrayed effectively. Much as I didn't think so initially, Howard was a MUCH better Rhodey than Cheadle. The movie as a whole just felt thrown together. We were promised so much and it just didn't deliver. I tend to think that if Avengers weren't already in the pipeline, we would've gotten the sequel we deserved.
This pretty much sums up my feelings on the movie, I watched both movies back to back last night and enjoyed both, but IM1 just had so much more meat on its bones, IM2 had all the ingredients to improve on every aspect of IM1, and didnt really end up improving on any of them. I still enjoy watching IM2, but thats only because of the actors, especially RDJ and Sam Rockwell, who both do a lot more with what was written for them than other actors could.

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Old 11-24-2010, 02:54 PM   #521
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Everything that everybody is saying here-even remarks made in defense of the film-has merit. This is a first for me. You know what else is a first? I just realized this film series is two installments in and we have yet to see a truly noteworthy villain. Just some idiots stealing Stark's tech and "improving" on it, with disastrous results. Stane was decent but he isn't a heavyweight. When did they kill him off in the comics, anyway? The 80's? Where's the Joker/Doc Ock/Magneto calibur villains, huh?
He's coming. Fav's realizes that the next Iron Man film has to be the biggest. I truly believe that he's gonna up the ante on IM3, especially since it could be the first Marvel film after the Avengers. Its pretty much 95% guaranteed that he will use Iron Man's archenemy, The Mandarin.

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Old 11-24-2010, 06:56 PM   #522
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Everything that everybody is saying here-even remarks made in defense of the film-has merit. This is a first for me. You know what else is a first? I just realized this film series is two installments in and we have yet to see a truly noteworthy villain. Just some idiots stealing Stark's tech and "improving" on it, with disastrous results. Stane was decent but he isn't a heavyweight. When did they kill him off in the comics, anyway? The 80's? Where's the Joker/Doc Ock/Magneto calibur villains, huh?
Dead on.

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Old 11-24-2010, 07:00 PM   #523
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He's coming. Fav's realizes that the next Iron Man film has to be the biggest. I truly believe that he's gonna up the ante on IM3, especially since it could be the first Marvel film after the Avengers. Its pretty much 95% guaranteed that he will use Iron Man's archenemy, The Mandarin.
The Mandarin better not take a back seat to anyone else in this movie, especially to War Machine.

The third one will be MUCH better if they completly drop War Machine from the movie.

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Everything that everybody is saying here-even remarks made in defense of the film-has merit. This is a first for me. You know what else is a first? I just realized this film series is two installments in and we have yet to see a truly noteworthy villain. Just some idiots stealing Stark's tech and "improving" on it, with disastrous results. Stane was decent but he isn't a heavyweight. When did they kill him off in the comics, anyway? The 80's? Where's the Joker/Doc Ock/Magneto calibur villains, huh?
Missed opportunities.

I understand with them changing the villain from Crimson Dynamo to Stane in the first one, but they should've brought him in for the second one. And then they get a great actor like Mickey Rourke and he really doesn't do anything.

All missed opportunities in favor of War Machine and trying to make Tony into a team player.

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Old 11-25-2010, 08:32 AM   #524
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^The thing is Iron Stark, I agree with a lot of your points, but having War Machine in the movie would have been no problem if they had made the movie 15-20 or even more longer, 2 hours simply wasnt enough to do everyone justice, when they announce it was going to be shorter than the first movie, before even seeing the movie I thought this was too short, and I was proven completely right upon seeing it. If TDK can be 2 and a half hours, why cant Iron Man 2 be at least 135 mins?

Who's ever decision it was, and my money is on Marvel rather than Favreau, it was a ridiculous one.

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Old 11-25-2010, 03:27 PM   #525
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^The thing is Iron Stark, I agree with a lot of your points, but having War Machine in the movie would have been no problem if they had made the movie 15-20 or even more longer, 2 hours simply wasnt enough to do everyone justice, when they announce it was going to be shorter than the first movie, before even seeing the movie I thought this was too short, and I was proven completely right upon seeing it. If TDK can be 2 and a half hours, why cant Iron Man 2 be at least 135 mins?

Who's ever decision it was, and my money is on Marvel rather than Favreau, it was a ridiculous one.
I agree. I don't War Machine was the problem. The problem was and always has been the script. The script, liked the first one, is average and unlike the first one lacked some emotional punch to it. As I said before, the performances saved this film from being much worse than it could've been.

This film would've been better if it was longer and it some opportunities and characters were better placed in the stories. People complain about this film being an extended Avenger trailer but honestly the only Avengers talk was 2 minutes at the end.

The only problem with the Fury cameo I had was that it was too Deus Ex Machima. They should've just gave him the stuff and be done, but they had to add that stupid temporary cure to it. And for what? You just took some of the urgency and drama out the film. It would've been great seeing Stark atone with his father as he was an inch away from death.

I liked Chris Wallace's idea of Vanko attacking while Tony's drunk. Then Rhody would've looked less like bad friend or an as***le taking the suit becuase Tony obvious couldn't handle him now.

Hammer could've been less campy, but honestly he just needed one scene to truly show how ruthless he was but we never got that. I didn't have much problem with him being comic relief even though its a bit of a waste of Sam Rockwell's talent.

I even didn't have a problem with Black Widow. She had her role in the film and she did it well. People are complaining because she didn't have character development or didn't speak Russian. Well she was undercover and them mentioning that she could speak Russian was good enough for me. If it was just another SHIELD agent people wouldn't have been complaining.

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Spielberg wanted to ground the myth of Lincoln in reality. "I wanted to say, what if this guy actually existed? What would it be like?"

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Parker Wayne will destroy us all as the Light beckons us to his unearthly call. Like a drop of cool condensation cascading down the side of a glass on a hot summer's day, we too will evaporate into The Void.
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