Avengers/JLA team up

[Fantasyartist]

I've just read the "Avengers/JLA team up "graphic novel by George Perez. Although the fighting between Thor and Superman was inconclusive( possibly because the Thunder God and the Man of Steel are too evenly matched), as was that between Batman and Captain America, the story had its moments-such as the brief encounter between the Dark Knight and the ever-lovin' blue eyed Thing and when Superman uses Captain America's shield and is astonished as to how durable it is.

Does anybody else think as I do on this topic?

How about some other team ups between the Avengers and other super-teams such as: (a) Gladiator and the rest of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard
(b) The Starjammers
(c) The Winter Guard
(d)Alpha Flight
(e) Excalibur
(f) Super Heroes of Europe

Please add any other groups or individuals that you think deserve their time in the spotlight( Sabra, Arabian Knight)

Terry

[CaptainStacy]

I thought the Thor vs Superman fight was pretty conclusive, what with Thor lying on the ground unconcious and all...

I'd actually like to see a sequel to Avengers/JLA, but this time with just a limited amount of characters, say, 7 members on each team. That way, it might be a little less cluttered.

[KingOfMars]

I bought it a few months ago for the art, but i havent been sure about reading it.

[Dread]

Ironically, when the story originally came out in 2004-2005 from Busiek & Perez, at the time I thought it felt very much like a "retro" tale, with dialogue that seemed to have fit in better for the end of the 90's and wasn't very "current" seeming. Of course, back then, Bendis was still writing decent stuff on DAREDEVIL and ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN. Over time, though, I found that JLA/AVENGERS aged better than so-called "current" stories like, say, THE ULTIMATES, whose pop references already make it seem older now than it should seem. I appreciate the yeoman effort George Perez put into the artwork, and saw it as a more timeless tale.

I do appreciate how some of the Marvel Handbooks of the Joe Q era try to insert this adventure into canon without deliberately mentioning DC characters (usually by claiming them as "a team of heroes from another universe" that unlike the Squadron Supreme, cannot be named).

The Thor vs. Superman fight is probably the most debated. I think no matter who you think should win, all seem to agree the battle was too short, even if there was really no choice. The book was packed enough. The story for me is about more than the fights, though. It's a fun adventure.

Technically, Superman also had a team-up with Silver Surfer in the 90's. The JLA took on the X-Men in the first of two sequels to MARVEL VERSUS DC in the 90's, called MARVEL/DC: ALL ACCESS. Superman spent most of that fight being psychically held to a standstill by Jean Grey. Cyclops actually managed to defeat Batman, albeit mostly off panel.

[CaptainStacy]

Originally Posted by Dread

Ironically, when the story originally came out in 2004-2005 from Busiek & Perez, at the time I thought it felt very much like a "retro" tale, with dialogue that seemed to have fit in better for the end of the 90's and wasn't very "current" seeming. Of course, back then, Bendis was still writing decent stuff on DAREDEVIL and ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN. Over time, though, I found that JLA/AVENGERS aged better than so-called "current" stories like, say, THE ULTIMATES, whose pop references already make it seem older now than it should seem. I appreciate the yeoman effort George Perez put into the artwork, and saw it as a more timeless tale.

I do appreciate how some of the Marvel Handbooks of the Joe Q era try to insert this adventure into canon without deliberately mentioning DC characters (usually by claiming them as "a team of heroes from another universe" that unlike the Squadron Supreme, cannot be named).

The Thor vs. Superman fight is probably the most debated. I think no matter who you think should win, all seem to agree the battle was too short, even if there was really no choice. The book was packed enough. The story for me is about more than the fights, though. It's a fun adventure.

Technically, Superman also had a team-up with Silver Surfer in the 90's. The JLA took on the X-Men in the first of two sequels to MARVEL VERSUS DC in the 90's, called MARVEL/DC: ALL ACCESS. Superman spent most of that fight being psychically held to a standstill by Jean Grey. Cyclops actually managed to defeat Batman, albeit mostly off panel.

I seem to remember Batman holding his own for a bit against the entire X-Men team....until Iceman tripped him up. Bat's DEINITELY laid Bishop out, which was great.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by CaptainStacy

I seem to remember Batman holding his own for a bit against the entire X-Men team....until Iceman tripped him up. Bat's DEINITELY laid Bishop out, which was great.

You're correct. Batman knocked Bishop on his ass, had avoided an optic blast, and I believe knocked Cannonball into Jean and Storm. But, yeah, then Iceman slipped him up, Bishop held a gun on him, and then the rest of the JLA showed up, and thus began ALL ACCESS #4. Where Bishop makes sure to tell Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner, still in his "crab-mask") about being "a human battery" like he told everyone in the 90's, Superman is held at bay by Jean the entire fight, and Cyclops beats Batman off panel. Wacky times.

Interestingly, while I believe Wolverine was on at least one cover of that ALL ACCESS series, he didn't appear. Venom did in issue one, though, and somehow managed to hold off both Superman and Spider-Man before Access himself dispatched him with a STAR Labs sonic gun (I think). Crazy.

In issue two, Robin and Jubilee (who had crushes on each other in DC VERSUS MARVEL) had a team up "date" against Two-Face, and later Batman got to TKO the Scorpion with B.S. martial arts and a Batarang.

[jarosso]

[Spidermanfan]

actually, i can picture them fighting each other.

[Hmarrs]

Originally Posted by CaptainStacy

I thought the Thor vs Superman fight was pretty conclusive, what with Thor lying on the ground unconcious and all...

I'd actually like to see a sequel to Avengers/JLA, but this time with just a limited amount of characters, say, 7 members on each team. That way, it might be a little less cluttered.

Hated it Thor got PLAYED!!!!!

[Anubis]

Yeah, but Thor always gets played. As a Thor fan, you get used to it.

[bored]

And the aftermath was pretty awesome, with all the other Avengers tanks freaking out that somebody was able to lay Thor out and converging on him the way they did.

[Hmarrs]

Originally Posted by bored

And the aftermath was pretty awesome, with all the other Avengers tanks freaking out that somebody was able to lay Thor out and converging on him the way they did.

That was even more stupid.It was so 80's.I bet it was the original script.After all that story was supposed to come out back in 1983 I believe.
First of all when all the Avengers get together they can't even defeat the Hulk but here in like 10 seconds they whoop on Superman.
That whole saga was sad,sad and stupid.
Besides I always felt that Superman versus Thor would eb a tie anyway.
The way I envisioned it was.
One of Superman's weaknessed was I don't know if it still was was magic.
One of Thors weakness was someone else lifting the Hammer.
So I saw it like this to lift the hammer "if he be worthy and noble of heart'
Now it just says worthy but it used to say noble of heart.
Anyway i saw it like this somewhere in the midst of battle Superman lifts it after all he is the ultimate boyscout.Upon lifting it he cancels Thor's power and since the Hammer is based in Asgardian magic he them cancels himself out they both fall down to the ground unconcious.Everyone then becomes aware that they are on the same side.
I don't even agree with all the times Superman has whooped up on the Hulk.The best fight they had was in a Spiderman Superman crosser where they fought to a stand still.
Marvel always gets played.ALWAYS!!!

[Anubis]

Well, being a good guy doesn't make you worthy of lifting Mjolnir. I mean, Thor was a douche bag for a long time and he was still able to lift it. I think it has more to do with being willing to give your all in battle for what you believe in. Corpy says it better. Truth be told, I don't think Supes shoulda been able to lift it. He's not what I'd call a warrior.

Also, magic has always been over hyped as a weakness. It affects him, but no more than it would any other super strong/virtually indestructible being. If you hit him with a magic top hot, he wont go down like a pile of bricks. If you had a sword with an enchantment that enables it to slice through anything, he better use some of that super speed to dodge. So, the act of hitting him with Mjolnir shouldn't hurt him any more than hitting him with any other nearly indestructible hammer being swung by a guy about as strong as he is. However, if Thor hit him with a God blast, he might have gotten f**ked up. (As f**ked up as anybody else of his durability class getting hit with Essence of a God.)

[Hmarrs]

Originally Posted by Anubis

Well, being a good guy doesn't make you worthy of lifting Mjolnir. I mean, Thor was a douche bag for a long time and he was still able to lift it. I think it has more to do with being willing to give your all in battle for what you believe in. Corpy says it better. Truth be told, I don't think Supes shoulda been able to lift it. He's not what I'd call a warrior.

Also, magic has always been over hyped as a weakness. It affects him, but no more than it would any other super strong/virtually indestructible being. If you hit him with a magic top hot, he wont go down like a pile of bricks. If you had a sword with an enchantment that enables it to slice through anything, he better use some of that super speed to dodge. So, the act of hitting him with Mjolnir shouldn't hurt him any more than hitting him with any other nearly indestructible hammer being swung by a guy about as strong as he is. However, if Thor hit him with a God blast, he might have gotten f**ked up. (As f**ked up as anybody else of his durability class getting hit with Essence of a God.)

True but I meant the him getting zapped by the magic of lifting it up.
Also c'mon Supes has a Warrior spirit.
What he did against Doomsday proved it and he gave his all.
Also you have to admit it would have been a good way to make it a draw.

[Anubis]

Somebody really needs to do something about these f**king Bots.

[Metamorpho1977]

I liked it. It almost felt like a lost chapter of Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[Oddzball]

Originally Posted by Dread

Ironically, when the story originally came out in 2004-2005 from Busiek & Perez, at the time I thought it felt very much like a "retro" tale, with dialogue that seemed to have fit in better for the end of the 90's and wasn't very "current" seeming. Of course, back then, Bendis was still writing decent stuff on DAREDEVIL and ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN. Over time, though, I found that JLA/AVENGERS aged better than so-called "current" stories like, say, THE ULTIMATES, whose pop references already make it seem older now than it should seem. I appreciate the yeoman effort George Perez put into the artwork, and saw it as a more timeless tale.

It suffered immensely because Perez was too oriented on setting the all time record for number of heroes drawn in a story.

Lost story cohesiveness beyond the intentional loss of story cohesiveness that began when Kyle tried to recharge his ring using the cosmic cube.

[Oddzball]

Originally Posted by Hmarrs

True but I meant the him getting zapped by the magic of lifting it up.
Also c'mon Supes has a Warrior spirit.
What he did against Doomsday proved it and he gave his all.
Also you have to admit it would have been a good way to make it a draw.

Techically there is the 'worthy' clause on Marvel Thor's hammer. Superman, a year or so earlier, had gone to the Norse pantheon worlds with Wonder Woman. The DC Thor there gets killed and Superman takes up the Hammer, for the rest of the war to hold off a demon invasion, roughly 1000 years without aging.

In addition to really qualifying as worth of using Mjolinr he made and kept to vows, to stay true to his woman and to NOT kill. He kept both vows.

I'd be hard pressed if I were Marvel Odin not to accept Superman as worthy.

[The Caped Knight]

I really enjoyed Batman vs. Captain America's faceoff

[Whiskey Tango]

Originally Posted by Hmarrs

First of all when all the Avengers get together they can't even defeat the Hulk but here in like 10 seconds they whoop on Superman.

A battered and exhausted Superman, who'd just gone 10 11 rounds with Thor and barely come out on top. And the ones that were beating him down weren't slouches themselves (Wonder Man, She-Hulk, Hercules, several others).

I had a few problems with the dialogue, it didn't read well in a few spots. And there are only so many panels in a row of people going Wha...? Who...? Eh...? Huh..? that I can stand. But it was loaded with the kind of cool **** you want to see in a crossover, like Monica replicating the Green Lantern energy, Kyle recharging his ring w/ the Cosmic Cube, Bats vs Cap, Hawkeye and Green Arrow's unending pissing contest. Lots of memorable moments.

I liked it a lot. I wish they'd do another one but I'm not holding my breath.

[Anubis]

Well, the guy that was in charge of DC that called Joey Q a big ole C-word ain't in charge anymore. So, it's possible, but I guess DC is too busy doing things like ruining Wonder Woman and bringing back guys that where better off dead to think about doing another crossover.

[Oddzball]

Originally Posted by Hmarrs

Hated it Thor got PLAYED!!!!!

Thor uses his hammer to protect him from bullets. He lacks a certain degree of Invulnerability Superman possesses. Would you rather have had Superman drag him along the surface of the Moon at close to light speed?

Guys who can be hurt by bullets cannot take that sort of punishment.

[Anubis]

Thor doesn't do that. He does have a vast degree of invulnerability. If you've ever seen that boos**t it's due to artistic license, or bad writing. Like Superman screaming in pain from getting shot by lasers, or ducking when a guy throws his empty gun at him after he just unloaded a whole clip into his chest.

[CaptainStacy]

Yeah, Thor's been punched by the Hulk and survived. Hulk's fists certainly do more damage than any gun can...

[Vartha]

I need to find this trade. I missed it the 1st time around.